Question ITX queries

[fuchss]

I'm very new to ITX, and I've been weighing AIO/air. I plan on using a 7800X3D and a 4090FE, which leaves me in a difficult situation. The 7800X3D is obviously known for running very efficiently with low temps and power draw, but the 4090FE runs hot. I've heard AIO's reduce airflow and can hinder the exhausting of the 4090FE. This is my current part list, though I have considered a Thorzone Mjolnir, though the thermals are supposedly worse. Furthermore, what would be quieter for 4K gaming in demanding titles, the AIO or air? I know this is a cooling post but if you see any issues or have any advice on my part list I'd really appreciate the knowledge. Thank you.

 

[Phaaze88]

I think the psu is the only thing I'd change. https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/
Looks to be in the speculative position of Tier B.
Instead, the 850/1000w Thermaltake Toughpower SFX, or Asus Rog Loki. These are SFX-L psus, and are not recommended to be used with dual fan AIOs - according to the case specifications.

but the 4090FE runs hot.

It doesn't though?
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-founders-edition/37.html

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9vC9NBL8zo

06:09 - Temperature Results for RTX 4090 Founders Edition (Port Royal)
07:24 - Fan Response to Thermals
07:55 - Surprisingly Good Thermal Results

I've heard AIO's reduce airflow

The radiator is a point of air resistance, just like filters, case panels, PCIe guards, psu shrouds and fan grilles - now, the degree of resistance is different - but it's not like an air cooler's heatsink isn't. I mean, they're both heatsinks, but AIOs fill an extra role: case cooling, and since a rad has to occupy a case panel, it has an impact on case cooling for just about all your components.

Furthermore, what would be quieter for 4K gaming in demanding titles, the AIO or air?

I'd say it's a draw, because you still have to customize the curves for your fans to your personal comfort zone regardless of which type you go with.
Also, there's the headphones in your part list; it'll be even harder to hear the fans.

 

[fuchss]

Good note on the PSU, I'm looking at the link you gave as an alternative, I think 850 will suffice. Honestly leaning towards air I think, not sold on AIO's in ITX.

Sorry, as I understood the 4090 had issues in ITX unless you put a water block on it, but the blocks I was looking at required a specific 4090 and they were outrageously priced.

The blocking I was referring to is mostly case specific/ITX specific, as it would be covering the exhaust on the GPU, but I was thinking that exhausting there instead of the radiator would be useful?

Yeah the headphones are open but it will still help for sure. My main worry is just overheating, then I guess noise although as long as I'm not hurting performance by going ITX I'm happy. I'm going to uni pretty far away this year so I think the convenience is worth the slight noise increase that I might experience.

 

[thestryker]

I think with this case you need to carefully plan out your layout. From what I've seen it looks like it should be fine either way you want to go. You absolutely don't need GPU liquid cooling with cases designed for clean air intake like this one. If you could fit the 67 in there it'd be a better cooler choice than the 47.

 

[Phaaze88]

Sorry, as I understood the 4090 had issues in ITX unless you put a water block on it, but the blocks I was looking at required a specific 4090 and they were outrageously priced.

I believe the issues have to do with the case + card each user chooses. If the design/layout of the case complements the gpu cooler, then there shouldn't be any cooling issues. If not, then that can lead to more heat swimming around in the case to warm the components with.
The FE cooler intakes from below - or the side, if vertically mounted - and exhausts half its waste out the video input area and the other half through the backplate.

The custom models behave the same with intake, but most dump it all inside the case, from the sides and the backplate.

The blocking I was referring to is mostly case specific/ITX specific, as it would be covering the exhaust on the GPU, but I was thinking that exhausting there instead of the radiator would be useful?

The fans can still take the air up and out. It's not like it's being blocked hard.

 

[fuchss]

I think with this case you need to carefully plan out your layout. From what I've seen it looks like it should be fine either way you want to go. You absolutely don't need GPU liquid cooling with cases designed for clean air intake like this one. If you could fit the 67 in there it'd be a better cooler choice than the 47.

I was gonna do a custom loop but you need the lowest profile possible parts, and the lowest profile GPU block only fits on inno3d and like 1 other card, and theres a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge premium on them. 67 too tall.

 

[fuchss]

I believe the issues have to do with the case + card each user chooses. If the design/layout of the case complements the gpu cooler, then there shouldn't be any cooling issues. If not, then that can lead to more heat swimming around in the case to warm the components with.
The FE cooler intakes from below - or the side, if vertically mounted - and exhausts half its waste out the video input area and the other half through the backplate.

The custom models behave the same with intake, but most dump it all inside the case, from the sides and the backplate.


The fans can still take the air up and out. It's not like it's being blocked hard.

So it turns out the AIO idea is way better than I could've ever imagined. I was searching for a build using my case, CPU, and GPU and I found this. I am genuinely shocked from his temps, I can't believe it makes that much of a difference? He went from a black ridge and 2 exhaust fans on the top to a low profile AIO. He says the temps on CP77 went from 84CPU 69GPU->67CPU 69GPU. In Hogwarts legacy he says the CPU went from 84->77, and for 3D mark it went from 76-84 depending on test to as low as 67. Seems like a no brainer, barely more expensive anyways in the grand scheme of a build with a 4090fe and a 7800x3d, I'm never going to financially recover so I might as well enjoy myself.

 

[thestryker]

I was gonna do a custom loop but you need the lowest profile possible parts, and the lowest profile GPU block only fits on inno3d and like 1 other card, and theres a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge premium on them.

Not that your build is cheap, but a full low profile custom loop sounds like a cost and logistics nightmare for sure!

67 too tall.

I assumed that was the problem, but wasn't totally sure as there wasn't great information regarding the case beyond people's build examples.

 

[fuchss]

Not that your build is cheap, but a full low profile custom loop sounds like a cost and logistics nightmare for sure!

I assumed that was the problem, but wasn't totally sure as there wasn't great information regarding the case beyond people's build examples.

Yeah I found Optimum's video on it. I was into it until I found out how much those GPU's are, they make my FE look cheap. 1300GBP vs 2000. He also custom made a fan header, 3d printed parts (which I'll do anyways it seems like a fun way to make it even more personal and rewarding), and the single worst bend in a custom loop I've ever seen. Amazing video and I'm envious just looking at it, here's the video if you're interested. Yeah that's the issue I'm having, limited info on the case and you can't figure out everything just through measurements. Thinking about using this AIO but I'm potentially 5mm too thick. Seems far better than the alternative one too.

 

[Phaaze88]

So it turns out the AIO idea is way better than I could've ever imagined. I was searching for a build using my case, CPU, and GPU and I found this. I am genuinely shocked from his temps, I can't believe it makes that much of a difference? He went from a black ridge and 2 exhaust fans on the top to a low profile AIO. He says the temps on CP77 went from 84CPU 69GPU->67CPU 69GPU. In Hogwarts legacy he says the CPU went from 84->77, and for 3D mark it went from 76-84 depending on test to as low as 67. Seems like a no brainer, barely more expensive anyways in the grand scheme of a build with a 4090fe and a 7800x3d, I'm never going to financially recover so I might as well enjoy myself.

Video kinda proved my points.
You were concerned with gpu thermals.
As for the cpu, the author previously had a custom cooler dumping its waste heat on the poor little Alpenfohn. If the 4090 that replaced it was also custom, the change in cpu thermals wouldn't have changed that drastically, as it would've been feeding into the AIO.

Also, I see the AIO is a pump in rad model(that black cube embedded in the rad). That's not going to last long. The rads should only be installed vertically if you want the pump to last.

 

[thestryker]

Yeah that's the issue I'm having, limited info on the case and you can't figure out everything just through measurements. Thinking about using this AIO but I'm potentially 5mm too thick. Seems far better than the alternative one too.

Is it just the radiator or the combination of radiator + fans that's too thick? If it's the combination the you can get thinner fans, and I think one of the installations I saw had one 15mm and one standard 25mm thickness fan installed.

 

[fuchss]

Video kinda proved my points.
You were concerned with gpu thermals.
As for the cpu, the author previously had a custom cooler dumping its waste heat on the poor little Alpenfohn. If the 4090 that replaced it was also custom, the change in cpu thermals wouldn't have changed that drastically, as it would've been feeding into the AIO.

Also, I see the AIO is a pump in rad model(that black cube embedded in the rad). That's not going to last long. The rads should only be installed vertically if you want the pump to last.

Yeah you were right, you're the man o7. Yeah I had noticed that about the AIO too, I had always tried to avoid those. I saw this one too but the rad is 5mm thicker so his 30mm and 25mm 120's would have to be 25 and 20, and I'd worry about the thermals again, hell idek if you can get a 120x20mm fan.

 

[Phaaze88]

Yeah you were right, you're the man o7. Yeah I had noticed that about the AIO too, I had always tried to avoid those. I saw this one too but the rad is 5mm thicker so his 30mm and 25mm 120's would have to be 25 and 20, and I'd worry about the thermals again, hell idek if you can get a 120x20mm fan.

According to THIS:

Liquid Cooling Support​

46mm Maximum Thickness for 120 / 240AIO & Fans:
2 × 120x25 Fan (+ 120AIO)
2 × 120x15 Slim Fan (+ 240AIO)

You'll have more options if you buy a pair of slim fans(15mm thick) and replace the AIO fans with those.
Most AIOs in the market use 27-30mm rads. There are not many slim/low profile AIOs like the Silverstone Vida in that video.

 

[fuchss]

According to THIS:

Liquid Cooling Support​

46mm Maximum Thickness for 120 / 240AIO & Fans:
2 × 120x25 Fan (+ 120AIO)
2 × 120x15 Slim Fan (+ 240AIO)

You'll have more options if you buy a pair of slim fans(15mm thick) and replace the AIO fans with those.
Most AIOs in the market use 27-30mm rads. There are not many slim/low profile AIOs like the Silverstone Vida in that video.

I was going off what that guy did in his build. He had to use the 25 because on the side with his mobo there wasn't enough space for anything more. He used the 22mm rad so he had 47 and 52mm ig, so I'm not sure about the 46mm tbh. Also that site is different than the one that people are linking in their youtube descriptions. The one you sent vs The linked one

 

[Phaaze88]

The one you sent vs The linked one

I see. The one I linked was V2.1. The other was V2.5.
The latter doesn't go into detail about liquid cooler support like the former does - I had no idea.