I've never seen such behavior before...

[Peffse]

Ok, I've got a little story and a couple of questions...
I bought a bargain Gateway machine at an old school auction for $20. I knew that it wouldn't be anything spectacular... decent is probably the best way to describe it. It's got a Coppermine processor running at 866MHz, an old zip drive, 16GB HDD and... *cue lightening bolt* RAMBUS memory.

Well the very first thing I did was stuck Windows XP on it, knowing full well that it wouldn't run at full speed. I was happy for a while, since the only goal for the machine was that it hold me off until I build my own. Come build time, I put the machine in the closet and forget about it for two years.

Ok, so a couple of weeks ago C&C is released by EA for free. I decide that now would be a good time to pull out the old machine and install my favorite OS, Windows 98.

Here is the odd part. Windows 98 installed fine... I load some basic programs into it, some hardware drivers, AVG anti-virus, and Spybot S&D. Then I notice that the OS locks up for 4-5 seconds every once in a while. Making sure that I didn't install something bad, I remove all programs running except AVG. Still locking up.

I decide to install FreeRAM XP Pro, since it would tell me the straight number of MBs of free RAM.

24MB.

Why is this significant? I have 192MB of RDRAM installed, that's why. Somehow Windows 98 is using 150+ of RAM, and it locks up completely until if frees up some memory.

Here is the other thing, and the reason why I put this in the Memory subsection, the Gateway machine has only two memory slots, both being occupied. One of the sticks is 64MB, the other is 128MB. I was under the impression that for Rambus memory to work, all slots had to have matching speeds and capacities. But the BIOS clearly states that it has 192MB of memory, as did XP when I had it installed.

Can someone give me a crash course on Rambus memory? Am I messing up Windows 98 by mismatching RIMMs? ...or could it be that there is a memory leak in one of the drivers and I'm just blaming the memory?

 

[mike99]

Windows is MEANT to use all the memory. Otherwise you wouldn't get any benefit from having more. Windows grabs loads of memory for disk cache etc, but it will reduce the cache if more memory needed for programs. How much free disk space? Run manufacturers diagnostic on HD, watch for disk 'hanging' with drive light stuck at ON when system hangs. If drive fails to read, windows has to wait for the data. Run Memtest86 on the system, best is overnight.

Mike.

 

[Peffse]

Man I've thrown out a dozen machines of 1ghz-1.6ghz in the last 2 months. Windows 98, RAmbus?? My god, get with the times man.

I know, but nothing can playing C&C like an old Windows 9x.

Windows is MEANT to use all the memory. Otherwise you wouldn't get any benefit from having more. Windows grabs loads of memory for disk cache etc, but it will reduce the cache if more memory needed for programs. How much free disk space? Run manufacturers diagnostic on HD, watch for disk 'hanging' with drive light stuck at ON when system hangs. If drive fails to read, windows has to wait for the data. Run Memtest86 on the system, best is overnight.

Mike.

Heh, tried that... It's a quantum drive. Which was aquired by Maxtor, which was aquired by Seagate. Support on it is extremely limited. But I was able to run diagnostics on it and it passed with flying colors. As for memtest, I'll run that ASAP...

Also, how could windows 98 use the full 150MB? Heck, windows 98 itself is only 250MB.

 

[Peffse]

Memtest passed and shows the full 192MB...


So I take it this PC is too old to troubleshoot on this forum?

 

[mike99]

What are system requirements for that Game? What display adapter? What AV software? I have AVG v7 running on a PII 400MHz laptop, and it doesn't strain it. Some of the other AV stuff really loads your system (Norton!!!). Check Msconfig to see what else is running at startup. Does the HD light stay on while system 'hangs'? Try running DFT (Drive Fitness Test) from IBM/Hitachi.

Mike.

 

[Peffse]

What are system requirements for that Game? What display adapter? What AV software? I have AVG v7 running on a PII 400MHz laptop, and it doesn't strain it. Some of the other AV stuff really loads your system (Norton!!!). Check Msconfig to see what else is running at startup. Does the HD light stay on while system 'hangs'? Try running DFT (Drive Fitness Test) from IBM/Hitachi.

Mike.

Well it doesn't hang on the games so much as it does when performing tasks on the desktop. But anyhow, the game I'm running is Command and Conquer Gold Edition.
It's system requirements for Windows: Pentium 60 MHz, 8 MB RAM (16 MB "strongly recommended"), 1 MB DirectDraw compatible video card, DirectSound compatible sound card, 30 MB hard disk space, 2x CD-ROM drive
I'm running on a Rage 128 display adapter. I ram memtest and it passed. I'm also using AVG, whatever the newest version is. Nothing else is set to boot with the system but AVG, FreeRAM XP Pro (for monitoring), and the drivers.
I don't know if the HD light comes on when the system hangs, but I do know that it hangs only when freeRAM reports 0 MBs of memory left.
I used Seatools for DOS on the HDD, performed a full test, and it showed that it was fine.

 

[BustedSony]

Erm, a Rambus motherboard REQUIRES four slots. Two would be used for memory and two with jumper cards that have to be left in until two additional Rambus dimms are installed. Also rambus was introduced with the early P4, the 815 chipset fpr P3 never supported rambus.

You have good ole' EDO Sdram my friend, 512 megabyte Sdrams can be picked up quite cheaply.

 

[michiganteddybear]

Actually, according to this..

http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/820/

the 820 was for p3's!!! they only used 2 slots for RDRAM, and could run with one module, one RIMM (didnt need ram in both), and I dont know if I ever seen one with SDRAM. I have seen them with RDRAM.

The horrendous 810 and 815 implentations where the SDRAM with integrated video (optional) solutions for the socket 370's.

The 850 (replacement for the piss-poor 820) was p4 only, and supported 4 slots.

and to start troubleshooting the problem with the antique, start by yankin everything you can out of the mobo and still have a bootable system. I have seen sound cards, nics (very often), even cdroms cause intermittant freezing in 98 based machines.. A lot of the time its the lack of full APIC support (that 2k, xp, and later have) that I have seen cause that in my shop here. sometimes just moving a nic to a different slot will move the IRQ's around enough to let 98 figure out what the hell is going on

 

[Peffse]

Erm, a Rambus motherboard REQUIRES four slots. Two would be used for memory and two with jumper cards that have to be left in until two additional Rambus dimms are installed. Also rambus was introduced with the early P4, the 815 chipset fpr P3 never supported rambus.

You have good ole' EDO Sdram my friend, 512 megabyte Sdrams can be picked up quite cheaply.

You don't believe me?

Actually, according to this..

http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/820/

the 820 was for p3's!!! they only used 2 slots for RDRAM, and could run with one module, one RIMM (didnt need ram in both), and I dont know if I ever seen one with SDRAM. I have seen them with RDRAM.

The horrendous 810 and 815 implentations where the SDRAM with integrated video (optional) solutions for the socket 370's.

The 850 (replacement for the piss-poor 820) was p4 only, and supported 4 slots.

Exactly... I know it's RAMBUS, 110% sure. Though I don't know if it's the chipset or not.

and to start troubleshooting the problem with the antique, start by yankin everything you can out of the mobo and still have a bootable system. I have seen sound cards, nics (very often), even cdroms cause intermittant freezing in 98 based machines.. A lot of the time its the lack of full APIC support (that 2k, xp, and later have) that I have seen cause that in my shop here. sometimes just moving a nic to a different slot will move the IRQ's around enough to let 98 figure out what the hell is going on

I didn't even think about the NIC. I did already pull everything else out... there is nothing left but that NIC I forgot about.... that would make sense though, with it being fine on XP and in games.

 

[mike99]

What happens if you disable FreeRAM? It sounds like you have something running with a severe memory leak! Could even be a driver. Try updating ALL hardware drivers and try using msconfig to disable all startups except AVG. If you disconnect frfom 'net you can try even disabling AVG.

Mike.

 

[commanderspockep]

You mean Command and Conquer was released for free? Where can I get it. (Sorry I can't help you much with your memory problem.)

 

[bruce555]

Why even run AVG on this comp. I kinda doubt you're using it as your main rig now and don't hook it up to the internet.

 

[rmicro1]

I would also check the capacitors on your motherboard to see if any are starting to bubble. I work at a non-profit organization that is STILL running a number of P3's and I've had a number go down lately with bursting capacitors.

Having a capacitor has one of two effects depending on which cap goes. It'll either cause system instability like you are experiencing or no bootup at all.

Simply look at each cap to see if the surface is at all starting to bubble. If you are unsure if one is bubbled, just compare it with a few others. The tops of caps are generally flat with a groove or two in them so it's fairly easy to see any misshaping taking place.

 

[qwertycopter]

Download Command and Conquer Gold for free from EA's website:

http://www.commandandconquer.com/intel/default.aspx?id=61#NewsMain

or from FilePlanet:

http://www.fileplanet.com/180464/180000/fileinfo/Command-&-Conquer-The-First-Decade