Hello there, just a quick question, is unplugging the fans from either the cpu or from the powerhub that's connected to the CPU_FAN header while the pc is asleep, safe to do so ? Because, I've had similiar experience when I was kept plugging it and unplugging it the cd-rom while the pc was on and somehow, one way or another, it shorted the mobo, so I had to replace it. The reason I asked was, that, I have that "Deep Cool FH-10" powerhub that's connected to the CPU_FAN header and I just unplugged one of the 4 fans, to test it out if it matters in numbers (D15S+ 3 NF-A15S).
Question Just a quick theoretical question about the case/cpu fans ?
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Aeacus
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Theoretically: No.
In reality: Well, you already know;
Safely powering off the PC before hardware removal/installation, is such an ordeal for you, because of? 🤔
I mean't in numbers, temperature increase and decrease numbers. I woundn't call an "ordeal", rather than just ya know, unplugging one fan and something goes bad because of it, like the electrical short across the whole system? That's pretty much what it got me curious, as what could have happened if you unplug the fans while pc is asleep, even if you being dead-eye careful.
Aeacus
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ESD (ElectroStatic Discharge).
Enough to kill your hardware, even without you noticing anything. Most likely the same reason what made your previous MoBo to give up the ghost.
It can take as little as 1V to damage the hardware. 100V is essentially guaranteed that hardware is toast. While what humans are capable of detecting in terms of ESD, is 2000V and higher.
ESD is a big and serious thing. For example, there is a reason why MoBos/GPUs come in anti-static bag (acting as Faraday cage) when you buy them. And also why electronics manufacturers go to great lengths to keep the manufacturing area ESD free.
Btw, one can create 1500V to 35000V charge in them when simply walking on a carpet.
Thats whats weird, most people on youtube actually not wearing anything, even the famous techtubers, neither the people I know, never shocked the components in their life, or it must be the specific action or sitaution to actually cause harm to your components?
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Aeacus
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What you're seeing, are success stories, playing with luck. Though, sensible people are grounding themselves before working with hardware (e.g Steve from GamersNexus or Jay from JayzTwoCents). Linus (from LTT/LMG) has dropped plenty of hardware and is overall goofy. While entertaining to watch to a degree, i've seen Linus to ground himself beforehand as well.
What you don't see from YT, are failures. Since who wants to admit that they screwed up and upload it to whole world to see? Other than attention seekers who doesn't care how stupid they look in the eyes of others and views/likes only matter.
Though, i've seen Jay to flood the system when filling up open loop (one port of the loop was left open). But he was sensible about it, admitting his fault and then moving on from it, while learning his lesson.
Of course, one doesn't need to be tethered to the ground at all times to mitigate ESD.
I haven't ESD any of my hardware thus far, since i'm mindful about that. I usually touch the central heating system pipes we have in our flat, to ground myself. Also, in my home office, we don't have carpet on the floor (oak hard-floor instead) and i don't wear socks indoors.
Yes, thats absolutely correct Sir. I've used to wear an esd bracelet, but it broke off, so instead, I'll rather use the gloves or touch something that has metal everywhere on it, like the pc case. Also, I've read somewhere that computer components generate some sort of the "electric-magnetic field" that would like to stay in the same conditions, like the "Faraday Cage" I guess? Could have swear that I heard someone mention that, also something with cooling as well, is that correct information?
Aeacus
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With gloves you need to be careful with material. Cotton, polyester and nylon are good in preventing ESD, while best would be rubber/latex gloves (like the ones doctors use).
ESD bracelet, when not connected to the ground point, doesn't do anything.
Good ESD bracelet is like the one sold by GamersNexus (given that you connect the cable to the ground point),
specs: https://store.gamersnexus.net/products/esd-wrist-strap-common-ground-point-cable
Touching metal part of PC case works only IF you have PSU cable connected to the mains. If PSU cable is unplugged, there is no path to the ground and you can short-circuit your PC hardware.
While PC components do create EMI (ElectroMagnetic Interference), they do not create electromagnetic field. At least in any meaningful way, e.g to act as Faraday Cage. Sure, components inside PSU do create minuscule electromagnetic field, but that is so small that it won't affect anything outside of the PSU, nor the PSU itself.
In terms of Faraday Cage, PC case can be considered as one, not because PC components create any electromagnetic field or the like, but instead because metal parts of the PC case are in direct contact with the metal casing of a PSU. And PSU's metal casing is in direct contact with the ground wire from main electrical grid (inside the PSU).
So, when you touch the metal part of the PC case and get a zap (ESD), there's nothing to worry about since PC case is grounded to the mains (via PSU), given that PSU power cable is connected to the mains. Also, MoBo standoffs and screws, while being metal, are also part of the grounding system and won't affect the rest of the MoBo. Since the PCB around MoBo mounting holes is separate from the rest of the circuit inside the MoBo.
Motors inside fans also create electromagnetic field, but that is to make the fan spin. Fancier fans even have magnetic-levitation bearing for essentially limitless lifespan (like the Corsair ML 120/140 Pro LED fans i have in my PCs).
Yeah, you are correct about the gloves, as they are not the perfect choice, since the rest of the body would need to be grounded as well, and also they need to be something like you've mentioned before that are made from either rubber or latex. To be honest, at first, I've tried to use an ESD bracelet on the case's metal chassis, but that would just scratch metal on the case instead, so then I decided to ground myself by attaching those clamps into the socket's grounding pins. As for the computer being grounded via the PSU, is that really safe to just work on the computer while the PSU is turned off, but still plugged in ?
Aeacus
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As long as you've bought good/great quality PSU - there is no worry.
Speaking of it: PSU make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the PSU is, and was the PSU bought new or used/refurbished?
If you mean't right now, then its the aero cool 750 lux rgb something like that, maybe 1-2 years old. Yeah I know its a very bad PSU 🙁...
Aeacus
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This doorstop?
Specs: https://aerocool.io/product/lux-rgb-750w/
🙄
If so, that's almost 700W PSU and not 750W as label says it to be. Then again, if you know the PSU is bad, why on earth did you buy it? 🤔 Does (A)RGB really matter that much?
I'd kick it to the curb and buy proper PSU. As little as 100 bucks, can get you Seasonic Focus GX-750, which is solid build quality PSU, 👍
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Seasonic-Full-Modular-Warranty-Application-SSR-750FX/dp/B0BG9RZ1YH
I too have Seasonic Focus in use, but mine is PX-550 and powers my old AMD build (full specs with pics in my sig).
While my other 2 rigs (my main one: Skylake, and my missus'es PC: Haswell) are powered by Seasonic PRIME TX-650
PSUs.And if you want ARGB over PSU fan, buy Phanteks Halos Lux Digital and place it over PSU fan grille, outside the PSU casing (given that you've mounted PSU in such a way where you can see it's fan),
specs: https://www.phanteks.com/HalosLuxDigital.html
Its quite simple, it was the part of the prebuilt rig that I've bought it. Yeah I know Corsair seems to be the best, but there are complains about them as well, then again, about EVGA over Seasonic as well, so I will never be able to pick the right one without a headache 😄. Yet, I'm actually kind of interested in the BeQuiet PSU, since the fans and the case is bequiet, have any good stuff about them?This doorstop?
Specs: https://aerocool.io/product/lux-rgb-750w/
🙄
If so, that's almost 700W PSU and not 750W as label says it to be. Then again, if you know the PSU is bad, why on earth did you buy it? 🤔 Does (A)RGB really matter that much?
I'd kick it to the curb and buy proper PSU. As little as 100 bucks, can get you Seasonic Focus GX-750, which is solid build quality PSU, 👍
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Seasonic-Full-Modular-Warranty-Application-SSR-750FX/dp/B0BG9RZ1YH
I too have Seasonic Focus in use, but mine is PX-550 and powers my old AMD build (full specs with pics in my sig).
While my other 2 rigs (my main one: Skylake, and my missus'es PC: Haswell) are powered by Seasonic PRIME TX-650
And if you want ARGB over PSU fan, buy Phanteks Halos Lux Digital and place it over PSU fan grille, outside the PSU casing (given that you've mounted PSU in such a way where you can see it's fan),
specs: https://www.phanteks.com/HalosLuxDigital.html
Aeacus
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Corsair is biggest name brand that sells PSUs, but they are nowhere near the best. On top of that, Corsair doesn't make their own PSUs, instead they buy PSUs from PSU OEMs and slap their name on the PSU. Same goes with EVGA.
Seasonic, in the other hand, is PSU OEM (2nd oldest PSU OEM in the world) and they even have made PSUs for Corsair, like the AX-series. Though, when it comes to PSU OEMs, 3 best (in no particular order) would be: Super Flower, Seasonic and Flextronics.
Super Flower Leadex series has been solid over the years. Same goes to Seasonic Focus and PRIME series. And Flextronics is the OEM behind Corsair AXi.
Be Quiet! PSUs are often priced at premium (costing more than equal level competitors PSUs), while PSU warranty can be quite short (e.g only 5 year warranty for Straight Power 11 series), indicating reliability issues with Be Quiet! units.
Here's Be Quiet! PSU lineup,
link: https://www.bequiet.com/en/powersupply#4040
If you'd narrow down the selection for me (e.g which series), then i can look into how it would fare.
To be honest, I don't have a single clue as what to look for it in the PSU, but my guess that, brand and the model matters the most, the rest of it, are the available power and it's features. I think I'll rather trust your knowledge, which bequiet psu model to avoid and what would be a good deal to get, in order to use with 4070 oc and 5900x?
Aeacus
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You and most people in that matter, doesn't know much about PSUs, other that PSU being just a metal box that is needed inside the PC.
For a guideline about PSUs, i suggest that you look PSU tier list,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/
While the list is outdated and doesn't include the newest PSUs, it still gives a good overview about PSUs and their build quality. Also, many PSUs in the list are currently sold as well, so, that list is still relevant.
In the list, there are PSU Tiers. Tier A is best and it would be only tier i'd suggest for any PC that has dedicated GPU in it. Sure, tier list suggests Tier B and even Tier C for builds with dedicated GPU but Tier B PSUs aren't good enough quality for powering dedicated GPU. In my opinion, Tier B PSUs are fine to be used in office builds, without dedicated GPU. And i even don't look at Tier C or lower.
In some rare instances (e.g 3rd world country), where there aren't any Tier A PSUs available, then Tier B can suffice, but even then, only select units and not everything that is listed in PSU tier list.
First thing is to figure out required wattage capacity of a PSU. Your CPU is 105W. RTX 4070 is 200W GPU, which can spike to ~400W. So, CPU and GPU together would be ~500W at worst. Add the rest of the system to it at ~100W and total would be ~600W. Thus, 750W PSU would give ample headroom.
Build quality wise, best would be Dark Power 13 (80+ Titanium, 10 year warranty, OEM: FSP),
review 1: https://www.guru3d.com/review/be-quiet-dark-power-13-1000w-psu-review/
review 2: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1...-850w-atx-3-0-80-plus-titanium-psu/index.html
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fC...ertified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-bn659
A bit lesser quality would be Straight Power 12 (80+ Platinum, 10 year warranty, OEM: FSP),
review: https://www.guru3d.com/review/be-quiet-straight-power-12-1500w-atx30-psu-review/
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fm...ertified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-bn336
Notch down from above one, but still good is Pure Power 12 M (80+ Gold, 10 year warranty, OEM: HEC),
review 1: https://hwbusters.com/psus/be-quiet-pure-power-12-m-850w-psu-review/
review 2: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1...r-12-750w-atx-3-0-80-plus-gold-psu/index.html
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Yp...ertified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-bn504
I'd avoid Straight Power 11 (80+ Gold, 5 year warranty) for the reason of it having only 5 years of warranty, indicating PSU reliability issues.
PSU reliability can be seen from the warranty length it has been given.
In a nutshell:
up to 2 years - terrible reliability
3 years - poor reliability (e.g Corsair VS/CS)
5 years - mediocre reliability (e.g Be Quiet! Straight Power 11, Seasonic G12, Corsair CX/CXF)
7 years - good reliability (e.g Seasonic Core/Focus GM, Corsair TX/AX)
10 years - great reliability (e.g Seasonic Focus GX/PX, Corsair RMx/HX/HXi/AXi)
12 years - superb reliability (e.g Seasonic Vertex/PRIME)
So, value wise, Pure Power 12 M would be the best, while build quality wise, Dark Power 13 is best. Personally, i'd get Dark Power 13 because PSU is the most important component inside the PC, since it powers everything. Hence the reason why i'm using the best offered by Seasonic (PRIME series, 80+ Titanium efficiency, 12 years of warranty). And when you keep your PC running on hours ends, the better efficiency of 80+ Titanium over 80+ Gold, adds up. This is especially true in places where electricity costs a lot, like in EU (where i live).
Thank you kindly Sir, for all of that useful information you've provided me with so far, not to mention that, not every day you meet people like you who are basically hols PHD in harvard in electrical engineering or computer science technology, or something in that meaning. That's a very detailed and really interesting information. But, just how common for a PSU to destroy everything, wouldn't that be required for the manufacturers to pass the "QC" their products, to assure that's it's safe to use?
Aeacus
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It really comes down to PSU's build quality.
I prefer to classify PSUs into 5 tiers, based on build quality:
* great quality (essentially best what money could buy)
* good quality (cheaper than great quality, while still good enough for everyday use)
* mediocre quality (not enough for dedicated GPU PCs, but can suffice for office PCs which never sees any high loads on hardware)
* low quality (cheap PSUs, not worth the money they cost)
* crap quality (cheapest of them all, with high risk of catastrophic hardware failure. Including PSU catching fire, burning down homes with loss of life.)
The worse build quality the PSU has - the higher of a chance of PSU frying everything it is connected to. And in worst case scenario, catching fire, burning down home with possible loss of life. Like this example,
article: https://www.thesundaily.my/archive/...wer-supply-unit-computer-updated-LTARCH461974
E.g with great quality PSUs, that chance of hardware killing is slim to none, since great quality PSUs are built with utmost care and have several, working protections in them, to safeguard the hardware they are powering. Usually what happens with great quality PSU and when their protections are tripped, they shut down the PC without any harm to the rest of the components.
On the other end of the spectrum are crap quality PSUs and these are really the worst. Essentially built just to steal money from unsuspecting customers. As of why these crap quality PSUs are even allowed to be sold, well that's difficult to answer. But the bottom of it is, that none of the PSUs are tested by government regulatory body beforehand, to see if the PSU is either good or bad. And to test each and every PSU beforehand, takes way too much time, effort, money and manpower, that it would be essentially impossible to do.
If you think about it, does any other product get tested by government regulatory body before it is allowed to sell for the masses? 🤔 Usually the sale is allowed based on the good word of the manufacturer that the product is safe. And when issues arise, manufacturer makes a recall (prime example: Takata airbag recall). Or when product has serious risk to the health, after people have found out the hard way and reported it, then government regulatory body steps in, tests that specific product and if needed, bans the sale of that product.
-----
Btw, i specialize on PC hardware and PSUs are the ones i know most about. Because PSU powers everything and thus, is the most important component inside the PC.
When it comes to PSUs, you need reasons to buy the PSU, not the reasons to reject the PSU. And most important factor, on knowing if PSU is good or not, is:
* review by a REPUTABLE reviewer.
Because it takes independent 3rd party reputable reviewer, who tests the PSU and shares their findings with masses, so people can learn about the truth of the PSU (what PSU does good, what PSU lacks and if it is even worth your money).
Anyone can take olliscope and hook the PSU on it, make some tests and call the PSU good. That doesn't mean the PSU is actually good. What it takes, is reputable reviewer, e.g our own in-house PSU reviewer: Aris Mpitziopoulos who has written PSU reviews for Tom's Hardware and who is also founder of Cybenetics (https://www.cybenetics.com/), which puts PSUs through far more in-depth testing than ATX PSU standard specifies.
Or Jon Gerow (aka jonnyguru), who is the de facto guy when it comes to PSUs. jonnyguru has reviewed loads of PSUs in his years and he is currently working at Corsair as director of PSU engineering.
Other reputable PSU reviewers include, but are not limited to, are: Steve Burke (GamersNexus), Hardware Secrets, PC Perspective, [H]ard OCP, AnandTech, KitGuru, Tech Power Up.
So, when it comes to PSU, it must have:
* official specs site
* review by reputable reviewer (preferably several reviews by several reputable reviewers)
Good to haves are:
* cybenetics report
* long warranty
* high efficiency
* good standing in PSU Tier list (https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/)
* good PSU brand reputation
* good PSU OEM (the one who made the PSU)
So, lets take your PSU and see what it has, or has not. I'll also include my own PSU as a comparison.
You have AeroCool Lux RGB 750W PSU. I have Seasonic PRIME 650 80+ Titanium PSU [SSR-650TD].
Official specs;
your PSU: https://aerocool.io/product/lux-rgb-750w/
my PSU: https://seasonic.com/prime-titanium
Reputable review(s);
I could not find any review of your PSU, let alone reputable review. That's a bad sign.
My PSU reviews;
By Aris: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-titanium-650w-psu,4690.html
By jonnyguru: https://web.archive.org/web/2017090.../modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=493
By KitGuru: https://www.kitguru.net/components/...onic-prime-650w-titanium-power-supply-review/
By AnandTech: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11252/the-seasonic-prime-titanium-power-supply-review
Cybenetics report;
While Cybenetics has tested 4x Aerocool PSUs, none are Lux RGB series.
My PSU, name listed as:"Prime Titanium 650W": https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=database¶ms=2,0,12
Warranty;
I could not find your PSU warranty length from official specs nor anywhere on Aerocool site. That's another bad sign. Had to research it and found one Latvian store, where it says your PSU has 2 year warranty (1 year if buying as business representative), source: https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/psu-barosanas-bloki/260514-aerocool-lux-rgb-750w-80plus-bronze
My PSU has 12 years of warranty. Listed in official specs. Also, 12 years of warranty is the longest warranty there is for PSU, and Seasonic PRIME and Vertex series PSUs are only ones in entire world, who have 12 years of warranty. Other high-end PSUs, at most, have 10 years of warranty.
Efficiency;
Your PSU is 80+ Bronze. 80+ Bronze PSUs were the norm ~15 years ago, while today, norm is 80+ Gold PSUs.
My PSU is 80+ Titanium. The highest efficiency there is.
PSU Tier list;
Your PSU is Tier D.
My PSU is Tier A, in single-rail section.
Brand reputation;
Aerocool was founded in 2001 and it started to produce PC thermal products (thermal paste). Some years later, Aerocool expanded their product line with CPU coolers, fans and multi-functional control panels. At some point, Aerocool started to manufacture PC cases, PSUs and even furniture (gaming chairs, tables). Though, as of late, underlying connection for their products is: RGB. Since pretty colors is cheap way to draw in sales.
So, a brand that used to specialize on PC cooling, but now produces plethora of different products, without specializing in any of them.
Seasonic was founded in 1975 (48 years ago) and Seasonic started to manufacture electronic test equipment. In 1981, Seasonic stated producing PSUs for workstations and servers. In 1995, Seasonic developed the ATX PSU, which now is the standard for all PSUs in PCs. 2003 was the year when Seasonic entered into consumer PSU market and started to make consumer PSUs. In 2009, Seasonic was the 1st in entire world, who made 80+ Gold efficiency PSU (X-series). 2021 saw the release of Syncro PC case, that is custom built to house Seasonic Connect PSU (intorduced in 2019), which simplifies cable management. In 2022, Seasonic released their MagFlow fans with innovative magnetic connection.
Full history here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Sonic#History
Seasonic is a manufacturer (OEM) that specializes in PSUs. Seasonic is 3rd oldest PSU OEM in the world. 2nd oldest is Delta Electronics and the oldest one is Flextronics.
OEM reputation;
I could not find OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) of your PSU. Meaning, i have 0 clue who actually made your PSU. Aerocool is just a brand, taking PSU from PSU OEM and slapping their name onto it.
My PSU is made by Seasonic itself. Seasonic is one of the best (if not the best) PSU OEM in entire world. Other great PSU OEMs include: Super Flower (founded 1991) and Flextronics (founded 1969). Seasonic has made PSUs for: Antec, Cooler Master, Corsair (e.g AX-series), EVGA, NZXT, Riotoro, Silverstone and XFX as well.
After reading all that (yes, it was a long read), which of the two PSUs you'd use? Your Aerocool brand PSU? Or my Seasonic brand/OEM PSU?
Btw, i have one AeroCool product in use: X-Vision, which is 5.25" external bay fan controller and it is controlling case fans in my old AMD build.
I even left an amazon review of it with a pic,
link: https://www.amazon.com/review/R2C14RNMMXDZXX/ref=cm_cr_srp_d_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00562QETS
Hmm, maybe that prime gold 1000w or dark power 13? Though for some reason dark power is a bit overpriced. Just like you said before, the warranty is what matters the most, the longer the warranty, the longer lifespan of the psu. Though, now it got me worried about the psu I am using it right now😔how much time do you think I have?It really comes down to PSU's build quality.
I prefer to classify PSUs into 5 tiers, based on build quality:
* great quality (essentially best what money could buy)
* good quality (cheaper than great quality, while still good enough for everyday use)
* mediocre quality (not enough for dedicated GPU PCs, but can suffice for office PCs which never sees any high loads on hardware)
* low quality (cheap PSUs, not worth the money they cost)
* crap quality (cheapest of them all, with high risk of catastrophic hardware failure. Including PSU catching fire, burning down homes with loss of life.)
The worse build quality the PSU has - the higher of a chance of PSU frying everything it is connected to. And in worst case scenario, catching fire, burning down home with possible loss of life. Like this example,
article: https://www.thesundaily.my/archive/...wer-supply-unit-computer-updated-LTARCH461974
E.g with great quality PSUs, that chance of hardware killing is slim to none, since great quality PSUs are built with utmost care and have several, working protections in them, to safeguard the hardware they are powering. Usually what happens with great quality PSU and when their protections are tripped, they shut down the PC without any harm to the rest of the components.
On the other end of the spectrum are crap quality PSUs and these are really the worst. Essentially built just to steal money from unsuspecting customers. As of why these crap quality PSUs are even allowed to be sold, well that's difficult to answer. But the bottom of it is, that none of the PSUs are tested by government regulatory body beforehand, to see if the PSU is either good or bad. And to test each and every PSU beforehand, takes way too much time, effort, money and manpower, that it would be essentially impossible to do.
If you think about it, does any other product get tested by government regulatory body before it is allowed to sell for the masses? 🤔 Usually the sale is allowed based on the good word of the manufacturer that the product is safe. And when issues arise, manufacturer makes a recall (prime example: Takata airbag recall). Or when product has serious risk to the health, after people have found out the hard way and reported it, then government regulatory body steps in, tests that specific product and if needed, bans the sale of that product.
-----
Btw, i specialize on PC hardware and PSUs are the ones i know most about. Because PSU powers everything and thus, is the most important component inside the PC.
When it comes to PSUs, you need reasons to buy the PSU, not the reasons to reject the PSU. And most important factor, on knowing if PSU is good or not, is:
* review by a REPUTABLE reviewer.
Because it takes independent 3rd party reputable reviewer, who tests the PSU and shares their findings with masses, so people can learn about the truth of the PSU (what PSU does good, what PSU lacks and if it is even worth your money).
Anyone can take olliscope and hook the PSU on it, make some tests and call the PSU good. That doesn't mean the PSU is actually good. What it takes, is reputable reviewer, e.g our own in-house PSU reviewer: Aris Mpitziopoulos who has written PSU reviews for Tom's Hardware and who is also founder of Cybenetics (https://www.cybenetics.com/), which puts PSUs through far more in-depth testing than ATX PSU standard specifies.
Or Jon Gerow (aka jonnyguru), who is the de facto guy when it comes to PSUs. jonnyguru has reviewed loads of PSUs in his years and he is currently working at Corsair as director of PSU engineering.
Other reputable PSU reviewers include, but are not limited to, are: Steve Burke (GamersNexus), Hardware Secrets, PC Perspective, [H]ard OCP, AnandTech, KitGuru, Tech Power Up.
So, when it comes to PSU, it must have:
* official specs site
* review by reputable reviewer (preferably several reviews by several reputable reviewers)
Good to haves are:
* cybenetics report
* long warranty
* high efficiency
* good standing in PSU Tier list (https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/)
* good PSU brand reputation
* good PSU OEM (the one who made the PSU)
So, lets take your PSU and see what it has, or has not. I'll also include my own PSU as a comparison.
You have AeroCool Lux RGB 750W PSU. I have Seasonic PRIME 650 80+ Titanium PSU [SSR-650TD].
Official specs;
your PSU: https://aerocool.io/product/lux-rgb-750w/
my PSU: https://seasonic.com/prime-titanium
Reputable review(s);
I could not find any review of your PSU, let alone reputable review. That's a bad sign.
My PSU reviews;
By Aris: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-titanium-650w-psu,4690.html
By jonnyguru: https://web.archive.org/web/2017090.../modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=493
By KitGuru: https://www.kitguru.net/components/...onic-prime-650w-titanium-power-supply-review/
By AnandTech: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11252/the-seasonic-prime-titanium-power-supply-review
Cybenetics report;
While Cybenetics has tested 4x Aerocool PSUs, none are Lux RGB series.
My PSU, name listed as:"Prime Titanium 650W": https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=database¶ms=2,0,12
Warranty;
I could not find your PSU warranty length from official specs nor anywhere on Aerocool site. That's another bad sign. Had to research it and found one Latvian store, where it says your PSU has 2 year warranty (1 year if buying as business representative), source: https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/psu-barosanas-bloki/260514-aerocool-lux-rgb-750w-80plus-bronze
My PSU has 12 years of warranty. Listed in official specs. Also, 12 years of warranty is the longest warranty there is for PSU, and Seasonic PRIME and Vertex series PSUs are only ones in entire world, who have 12 years of warranty. Other high-end PSUs, at most, have 10 years of warranty.
Efficiency;
Your PSU is 80+ Bronze. 80+ Bronze PSUs were the norm ~15 years ago, while today, norm is 80+ Gold PSUs.
My PSU is 80+ Titanium. The highest efficiency there is.
PSU Tier list;
Your PSU is Tier D.
My PSU is Tier A, in single-rail section.
Brand reputation;
Aerocool was founded in 2001 and it started to produce PC thermal products (thermal paste). Some years later, Aerocool expanded their product line with CPU coolers, fans and multi-functional control panels. At some point, Aerocool started to manufacture PC cases, PSUs and even furniture (gaming chairs, tables). Though, as of late, underlying connection for their products is: RGB. Since pretty colors is cheap way to draw in sales.
So, a brand that used to specialize on PC cooling, but now produces plethora of different products, without specializing in any of them.
Seasonic was founded in 1975 (48 years ago) and Seasonic started to manufacture electronic test equipment. In 1981, Seasonic stated producing PSUs for workstations and servers. In 1995, Seasonic developed the ATX PSU, which now is the standard for all PSUs in PCs. 2003 was the year when Seasonic entered into consumer PSU market and started to make consumer PSUs. In 2009, Seasonic was the 1st in entire world, who made 80+ Gold efficiency PSU (X-series). 2021 saw the release of Syncro PC case, that is custom built to house Seasonic Connect PSU (intorduced in 2019), which simplifies cable management. In 2022, Seasonic released their MagFlow fans with innovative magnetic connection.
Full history here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Sonic#History
Seasonic is a manufacturer (OEM) that specializes in PSUs. Seasonic is 3rd oldest PSU OEM in the world. 2nd oldest is Delta Electronics and the oldest one is Flextronics.
OEM reputation;
I could not find OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) of your PSU. Meaning, i have 0 clue who actually made your PSU. Aerocool is just a brand, taking PSU from PSU OEM and slapping their name onto it.
My PSU is made by Seasonic itself. Seasonic is one of the best (if not the best) PSU OEM in entire world. Other great PSU OEMs include: Super Flower (founded 1991) and Flextronics (founded 1969). Seasonic has made PSUs for: Antec, Cooler Master, Corsair (e.g AX-series), EVGA, NZXT, Riotoro, Silverstone and XFX as well.
After reading all that (yes, it was a long read), which of the two PSUs you'd use? Your Aerocool brand PSU? Or my Seasonic brand/OEM PSU?
Btw, i have one AeroCool product in use: X-Vision, which is 5.25" external bay fan controller and it is controlling case fans in my old AMD build.
I even left an amazon review of it with a pic,
link: https://www.amazon.com/review/R2C14RNMMXDZXX/ref=cm_cr_srp_d_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00562QETS
Aeacus
Titan
- Mar 21, 2015
- 14,075
- 2,582
- 84,890
Seasonic PRIME is solid, especially the 80+ Titanium i have. Both are great and it's up to you to decide which one to get. (Though, i have more faith in Seasonic than FSP when it comes to PSU OEMs. Then again, this is my personal preference and i'm not going to force it on anybody.)
Most of the times - yes. Though, even great quality PSUs can fail, but that's the reason they have warranty. Still, it is also a great peace of mind, if you know that PSU manufacturer trusts their PSU so much, that they are willing to give it 10 or even 12 years of warranty.
Though, Seasonic has even gone above and beyond regarding warranty.
I bought my first PRIME unit in Q4 2016 and it initially came with 10 years of warranty. In 2017, Seasonic announced that they extend the warranty period of all their PRIME series for 10 years to 12 years and not only PSUs that are manufactured after the announcement date, but it also applied retroactively, meaning that all and any PRIME series PSUs already purchased and in use, will get the warranty extension.
Just in case, i contacted Seasonic directly about it and Seasonic representative confirmed what announcement said. Meaning that my PRIME unit, that was in service for ~6 months at that time, also get the warranty extension to 12 years from purchase date.
This is actually very impressive on Seasonic part. Not only is Seasonic the only PSU OEM, that i know of, who has extended the warranty of PSUs that are currently available, but the fact that this warranty policy change applies retroactively to all and any units that have been already sold to the public, is what makes it very impressive.
And this isn't the only time Seasonic has extended the warranty period. 20 days ago, Seasonic did it again, for the Vertex series (launched Sept '22) that they are currently producing alongside other models,
announcement: https://seasonic.com/news/post/vertex-series-warranty-upgraded-to-12-years/
Following is more like a secret, so, don't tell anybody, but Seasonic is also the only PSU brand/OEM that offers transferable warranty with their PSUs. Meaning that when you buy used Seasonic unit and initial owner still has the invoice of the PSU, warranty extends to you as well (you need that invoice as proof of warranty). Same goes when you sell your Seasonic unit and give the PSU invoice to the buyer. Whatever warranty was left, is transferred to the new owner.
Though, buying used PSUs is a bad idea since you have 0 idea what kind of abuse that PSU has seen and if it even supplies voltages within ATX PSU standard. But when you buy Seasonic unit and get initial invoice and PSU goes "pop", you could RMA it under warranty and get a replacement.
Still, do note that PSU's warranty doesn't cover any other component PSU might have fried. PSU warranty covers only PSU itself. And while there have been very few cases, where PSU brand has payed for the other hardware their PSU killed (i know one instance of Corsair and one from EVGA), don't rely on it.
Question with your Aerocool doorstop isn't IF it decides to go belly up, but WHEN it happens. And this is really hard, if not impossible to predict. You may have a hour, a day, a week, a month; it is really difficult to say. But that much i can say that when you put any meaningful load on PSU, the chances it going "pop" and releasing magic smoke, are exponentially higher.
Meaningful load meaning gaming for example. Just idling around or browsing the web doesn't put much load on PSU and one can slide with crap quality PSU for years. Usually, it's during gaming when PSU acts up, since it can't sustain the higher power draw of the components, especially GPU. And tall tale sign during gaming is PC either crashing (black screen), restarting or completely shutting down.
Since random reboots or shutdowns are mostly caused by 2 issues:
1. CPU/GPU overheats and to prevent any damage, system shuts down.
2. PSU fails to deliver enough power to the GPU or fails to keep smooth enough voltage for PC's operation.
First check your CPU/GPU temps, both at idle and under load. If temps are within reason then it's safe to assume that it's the PSU who is acting up.
Sadly, with low/crap quality PSUs, it usually only takes 1 such restart/shut down for PSU to go "pop". And more often that not, MoBo is also the one that gets fried during this (MoBos are very sensitive when PSU acts up). GPU is also quite sensitive to this and one can loose GPU easily as well. RAM is more durable, while CPU is the most durable component inside the PC. Still, even CPU isn't invulnerable. On top of that, sudden power loss can corrupt your OS as well. Either Win alone, or entire OS drive. So, there is a lot to loose when low/crap quality PSU goes "pop". Essentially your entire PC + personal data on OS drive. And if very unlucky, your entire home and/or your life as well (like the linked article i shared before).
Hence why never cheap out on PSU. Also, never buy used PSU.
Everything to do with power delivery is serious business. Be it PSU, UPS or even extension cord/surge protector. Using the extension cord/surge protection is also a bad idea. If interested as of why, i can post the info in my next reply.
Wait wait wait a minute bud, how come ups and the surge protectors are a bad idea, aren't they supposed to, ya know, protect the hardware during power outages and thunderstorms? I had one issue with that, but sadly, I didn't knew that electrical discharge could travel through the ethernet sockets into the applicable devices such as the motherboard and iptv, which then later I've installed some kind of a thing that basically directs abnormal voltages from the ethernet cables into the ground, can't really tell what the heck that thing is, but I hope it works😄. As for the surge protector, does 900J protection not good enough?
Aeacus
Titan
- Mar 21, 2015
- 14,075
- 2,582
- 84,890
UPS, in itself, isn't bad, since it's job is to keep your PC running during blackout. But like with PSUs, there are also varying degree of UPSes out there.
When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)
From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: https://www.kstar.com/indexproblem/17355.jhtml
And here are explanations about the UPS design,
link: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272971
Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave. You might get simulated sine wave UPS running with Active PFC PSU but there can be some major issues. Here's what, how and why.
How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification (e.g 80+ Bronze or 80+ Gold) has Active PFC.
What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads
What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).
Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).
What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS. Or you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat.
Wattage
As far as UPS wattage goes, you need to consider the power draw of your PC and monitors. Maybe speakers and wi-fi router too if you plan to plug those into the UPS as well. Though, printers, scanners and other such hardware (full list on your UPS manual) don't plug to the UPS since their startup power draw is way too much for UPS to handle and you can fry your UPS.
Taking PSU's max wattage as a baseline is good idea since it will give your UPS more headroom and you can get longer runtime out of your UPS. Currently, your PSU is 750W and at least one monitor is added on top of it. Depending on the monitor size, they use between 23W to 52W. For more accurate power consumption, i need to know your monitor make and model so i can look up it's power consumption. Wi-fi routers don't consume much power. For example, my Cisco EPC3940L consumes 12V at 3A which means 36W.
Good UPS brands to go for are CyberPower, TrippLite and APC. While there are other UPS brands as well, those three are the best out there.
Note: The more powerful UPS you have, the longer UPS can keep your PC running before it's battery is empty.
-----
My Skylake and Haswell builds are also running off from UPSes where both PCs have their own UPS.
I have two of these in use: CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive),
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/CP1300EPFCLCD
amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0058RVIEC
While i have good electricity grid where i live and blackouts are very rare (once a year or so), they still happen. Last such blackout, before i had my UPSes, costed me 2 hours worth of work and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. So, decision was made to get an UPS.
I searched far and wide, read tons of reviews and watched plenty of videos before buying my UPSes. Since i'm all about practicality (e.g 6x output sockets, user replaceable battery), longevity and ease of use, CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPSes were the best option for my needs. And the small footprint of the UPS itself is also a bonus when you don't have lots of free space. While my PC is on idle/web browsing, my UPS runtime is about 35 mins. On full load, my UPS can keep the PC running at about 15 mins or so.
CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPS is also 4th best UPS in the roundup,
further reading: https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-uninterrupted-power-supplies
And under the spoiler is combined image of my UPSes, click on spoiler to view.
Top left: After unboxing
Top right: Power-on test
Bottom left: Haswell build UPS in service
Bottom right: Skylake build UPS in service
Top right: Power-on test
Bottom left: Haswell build UPS in service
Bottom right: Skylake build UPS in service
About these things, and here, i need to share a reply of, one of our top PSU experts in TH forums: Darkbreeze (he knows far more about surge protectors than i do);
reply link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/everything-work-but-it-doesnt-work.3773133/#post-22771910
Go and read it. Sure, it's a long read but he explains it well as of why surge protectors are a bad idea.
When you have a proper UPS (like the ones i have), they also come with AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator) and surge protector in them, making stand-alone extension cords/surge protectors pointless. And since the UPS itself is of good quality, you can be sure that the protections in them also work as they are supposed to.
For example, on quite a few instances i've seen my UPSes to turn on but after a second or two, turn off again. While i was lost 1st time around about what happened just then, since the ceiling lighting was lit the whole time, but thing is, surges and brown outs (voltage drops) can be milliseconds long, whereby you can't tell if they even happened. But good quality UPS will catch on and will protect the hardware plugged into it.
Though, in my honest opinion, all PCs should have an UPS and i suggest you also get one for your PC.
Also, make sure the UPS has the right outlet type for your location. For example, my UPSes have 6x Type F CEE 7/3 outlets (aka Schuko) since i live in Europe.
Oh, one more thing. Do not underestimate the cost of an UPS. Since UPS'es job is to keep your PC running when there's blackout by supplying good and stable electricity to your PC, they also cost a lot of money (just like good/great quality PSUs do). For example, i payed €230 Euros for one of my 1300VA/ 780W UPS. And i have two of them.
Since your PC is expensive, especially when you get RTX 4070, it's not easily replaced. Like it or not, if you want the protection, it's not going to be cheap. Though, if you want cheap and good UPS, you need to buy 2x UPSes; 1st the cheap one and 2nd the good one.
Hmm, actually its correct about the power strips, they burn so often, that you can use it as the bbq grill😄. As for the surge protectors, thats also correct too, whats the point of having one in your room if you never earthed your sockets? Since the electricity has to go somewhere, but, if it doesn't, it will going to damage something, that's for sure. Though, if the house has earthed sockets, fuses in the electrical box, then, fuses usually will disengange the power if something trips it, but, from what I could understand, it matters in milliseconds, so if it disengages the power even by a marginal too late, some devices will definitely going to fry totally. Surge protectors on the other hand, gives you a bit more time to save your electronics than a house fuse, which results in probably burned surge protector, but instead, it leaves you with the undamaged electronics. Murphy's law can be used anywhere and everywhere, so having your house under insurance is always the best bet, doesn't matter what happens, as long it can cover the damages. Sorry for being too nerdy😄that's what I've heard.
https://www.deindeal.ch/en/multimed...b-20-24-a-with-2-m-cord-white-grey/p/25228049 - that's my surge protector I think. And also, for my full specs:
Silent Base 802
5900x
Gygabyte RTX 4070 OC
DDR4 VENGEANCE 16GBx2 3600mHz
MSI B550 PRO-VDH
Noctua D15S 140 mm x 150 mm x 140 mm( Also NF-15S as an exhaust, also the psu shroud)
LIGHT WINGS 2 HIGH SPEED PWM 140 mm x 3 (Top)
BeQuiet! Silent Wings 4 Pro 140 mm x 3 (Front)
Samsung Curved 4k monitor,
Aerocool LUX RGB 750w
Western digital gold 2TB
Gygabyte NvMe SSD 1TB
Silicon Power 256 GB NvMe SSD
TP-Link TX3000E
The rest of it is steel series peripherals.
Silent Base 802
5900x
Gygabyte RTX 4070 OC
DDR4 VENGEANCE 16GBx2 3600mHz
MSI B550 PRO-VDH
Noctua D15S 140 mm x 150 mm x 140 mm( Also NF-15S as an exhaust, also the psu shroud)
LIGHT WINGS 2 HIGH SPEED PWM 140 mm x 3 (Top)
BeQuiet! Silent Wings 4 Pro 140 mm x 3 (Front)
Samsung Curved 4k monitor,
Aerocool LUX RGB 750w
Western digital gold 2TB
Gygabyte NvMe SSD 1TB
Silicon Power 256 GB NvMe SSD
TP-Link TX3000E
The rest of it is steel series peripherals.
Last edited:
Aeacus
Titan
- Mar 21, 2015
- 14,075
- 2,582
- 84,890
Based on that, you have Belkin BSV804ca2M. And Darkbreeze actually spoke of that brand. Namely:
So, yeah, even i doubt your surge protector being able to protect properly against surges. It might catch small surges but lighting strike (with it's insane amounts of voltage) will go straight through it without issues.
How far is your new PSU?
Also, have you thought of getting an UPS as well?
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