Build Advice Just starting to research major upgrade/build

[BGodfrey]

Back in 2013 I got tired of buying a new Dell every couple of years. I was a systems engineer in the late '80s and early '90s and, even though I left the field in 1993, I figured I could do better. Longevity with decent performance was my objective - an unusual one it seemed at that time. I got a lot of great advice from this forum and I'm sitting in front of and typing on the system that I built way back when, so I'd say that I have been successful. I'm retired now and the machine has grown old with me, always having plenty of performance as I've gradually reduced my demands on it. But I'm starting to see signs that the time for an upgrade is approaching. And that's why I'm starting this thread.

For me there seems to be three things that can end a system's "life": major hardware failure, performance loss due to continually increasing software demands, incompatibility with new hardware or software.

• I attempted to handle the first by buying the most reliable hardware I could find at reasonable (not cheap) prices and by buying standard (not Dell) components so I could repair my own system. That has worked well.
• I attempted to handle the second thing by building the fastest machine I could with the most modern I/O interfaces within reasonable costs. My assumption being that legacy technologies might be cheap, but they are not going to be acceptable for nearly as long into the future as are newer technologies. And I say "reasonable cost", not "budget", because budget implies that I have a set amount or some limitation in mind. I had objectives in mind, only one of which was "reasonable" cost. Flexibility is important. I seem to remember that my total system cost came to more than a higher end Dell workstation at that time, but after 11 years of use - much of it pretty demanding - my cost per year is only about a couple hundred bucks. That's what I call reasonable.
• The third problem can only be dealt with by hardware upgrade. Specifically: Windows 11 will apparently not run on my current hardware. I feel no compulsion to upgrade the OS at this time, but history shows that the time is approaching when I will be forced to if I wish to continue using the system without limitations.

My current system is an Intel i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz and 32Gb RAM in an ASUS Z87-Deluxe/Dual motherboard. The OS is on an Intel 530 series SSD (240Gb, I think) and there are some other drives, all on SATA. That's SATA with cables - I think there are now SATA SSD drives that plug in directly to the MB, but that just shows how much attention I've been paying. I use the built-in graphics and used the built-in sound until it died and I added a sound card. I thought the Thunderbolt stuff would future-proof me, but I've never actually used it.

I'm going to post this and then follow it up with another posting that includes the copy/paste from the "How to Ask for New Build or Upgrade Advice" pinned posting in this forum.

 

[BGodfrey]

Approximate Purchase Date: within the next few months. I hope. Time passes more quickly when you get old...

Budget Range: N/A Smart configuration is the objective

System Usage from Most to Least Important: General PC use. Email, Browser, Photo editing, web editing, sound editing, etc. No gaming other than crossword puzzles and KenKen.

Are you buying a monitor: No

Parts to Upgrade: This is partly why I'm here. I'm not entirely sure which parts that I have can be retained. I'm assuming a new MB, CPU, and RAM. Hopefully nothing more.

Do you need to buy OS: No. I have a purchased copy of Windows 10 on an SSD. I'll move that to the new system and then once I'm happy with everything else I may buy an upgrade to Windows 11. Please don't use this to launch a discussion on this option. I'll decide that later.

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: (e.g.: newegg.com, ncix.com -- to show us selection & pricing) Newegg and Amazon I am familiar and comfortable with. ncix.com I am not, but willing to learn. Are they honest and reliable? Are they in the US?

Location: San Diego, though I'll probably order everything online.

Parts Preferences: by brand or type (e.g.: I would like to upgrade to Intel CPU) Intel and ASUS have not let me down in the past, but I'm open to other suggestions provided you have a good explanation why they are better. Better means more reliable. Longer MTBF, etc.

Overclocking: No. Reliability is more important.

SLI or Crossfire: Please explain. Or I'll go look it up somewhere. But I don't even know what this is about right now.

Your Monitor Resolution: N/A

Additional Comments: (e.g.: Need to have a window and lots of bling, I would like a quiet PC. Please also list specific software or games you're using) Quiet is good, low power usage is good, but reliability and long life expectancy are more important.

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: I think I probably answered that pretty exhaustively in the first posting.

 

[Eximo]

We should actually remove SLI and Crossfire from the template, it itself is obsolete.

Relatively simple build. I do not suggest keeping your old storage or power supply.

If you like your current case, that can be re-used, probably. Type-C USB ports are now a thing and your case surely doesn't have one.

Though I have to admit, I have yet to actually plug a type-C device directly into my system. Thunderbolt is similar, I just don't have any devices or use cases for that on a desktop. Makes more sense on a laptop, or if you do a lot of large file transfers or external backups.

How blingy? RGB fans and memory and CPU cooler?

 

[NedSmelly]

System Usage from Most to Least Important: General PC use. Email, Browser, Photo editing, web editing, sound editing, etc. No gaming other than crossword puzzles and KenKen.
[snip]
Do you need to buy OS: No. I have a purchased copy of Windows 10 on an SSD. I'll move that to the new system and then once I'm happy with everything else I may buy an upgrade to Windows 11. Please don't use this to launch a discussion on this option. I'll decide that later.
[snip]
Additional Comments: Quiet is good, low power usage is good, but reliability and long life

My personal opinionated thoughts:

1. At least 8-core CPU, 65W part. Doesn't really matter which brand, but I've had weird USB issues with 2 AMD platforms on legacy peripherals which don't occur on Intel. AMD socket might be supported for longer though.
2. Mid-range motherboard. Size based on personal preference and need for future PCIE slot expansion. Make sure it has enough SATA ports as you need.
3. CPU cooler: air cooled. Noctua has good long term customer support. NHU-12S is a safe choice for 65W.
4. OS: depends a lot on your software, You're stuck with Windows if you're an Adobe person, but otherwise Linux is worth considering if it's just general usage. (Potential for future MS shenanigans with AI and OS cloud migration)
5. RAM: I wouldn't bother with XMP if reliability is paramount. More RAM at JEDEC speed is probably better than less RAM at XMP/EXPO. But you can buy XMP RAM if cheap, and run at JEDEC. At least 32GB, but preferably 64GB in 2x 32GB sticks.
6. GPU: how long is a piece of string. Photoshop doesn't need much at all for GPU acceleration. If running Topaz AI etc, then something midrange will help. 12GB VRAM is desirable, even for productivity. 20GB VRAM minimum for 8K video editing.
7. PSU: more or less determined by your GPU choice - and perhaps if you're running an array of multiple hard drives.

 

[Lafong]

I tend to agree with your preamble in the first post. Good reasoning.

Very little chance you need to bother with SLI or Crossfire. Highly unusual that anyone does nowadays.

Asus boards don't seem to have the buzz they did 10 years ago, but no doubt many are happy with the brand. Prominent brands now seem to be MSI and Gigabyte.

You'll probably see complaints about a 240 gb SSD for the OS...."too small"..... You're the best judge of your capacity requirements. 240 may be more than plenty. Speed advantage of newer SSDs is not overwhelming.

If you buy a new OS SSD, quite likely you'd go with an M.2 2280 NVMe to avoid cabling. Some boards can accept 3 or more of them.

Quite possible you don't need a video card.

What case do you have now? If you buy a new cooler, it will have to be short enough to fit in your case.

Some Intel CPUs include a cooler; some don't.

Don't know much storage you need other than on OS drive. You can get 4 TB HDDs for under 100; an SSD of that size is probably triple that. If you would access your HDDs a lot, maybe consider SSDs instead unless budget prevents.

 

[Eximo]

This is my budget and yet, expensive option.

Since you like forward looking stuff I went with 2x24GB of memory. Since that is new this generation. More than the 32 you had anyway. It could be swapped for a 2x32GB kit.

8700G is an 8 core CPU with the most powerful onboard GPU available today. Should handle everything you need. In the future you can swap in a newer APU (All AMD chips this generation have onboard graphics, but not nearly as big as this one) You can also add a GPU later if needed.

RGB CPU fan, again, room for improvement, but should be sufficent.

Power supplies are annoying right now. High quality basically comes with high capacity, which you don't need. Even the decent SFX supplies are running 500W minimum. Normally I would say get an EVGA 450W, but haven't seen one of those in months. Not sure if EVGA has bowed out of the PSU market as they did the GPU market. You could spend even more and get a titanium rated fanless PSU, but the one in the 750W is not likely to ever need to spin up. But is there if you need it.

X670E motherboard is overkill, but this one is pretty cheap compared to B650E and X670 boards. X670E has two chipsets, so basically double the I/O capability.

2TB NVMe SSD for all your storage needs. Room for more.

If you have a lot to back up, you can still get SATA HDD, or just really big SATA SSDs.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 8700G 4.2 GHz 8-Core Processor ($329.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Assassin Spirit 120 EVO 68.9 CFM CPU Cooler ($22.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock X670E PG Lightning ATX AM5 Motherboard ($239.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 48 GB (2 x 24 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory ($184.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Crucial P5 Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($152.39 @ MemoryC)
Case: Fractal Design Pop Air RGB ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ B&H)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF A3 - TT Premium Edition 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($86.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1106.25
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-02-21 16:50 EST-0500

 

[NedSmelly]

This is my budget and yet, expensive option.

Since you like forward looking stuff I went with 2x24GB of memory. Since that is new this generation. More than the 32 you had anyway. It could be swapped for a 2x32GB kit.

8700G is an 8 core CPU with the most powerful onboard GPU available today. Should handle everything you need. In the future you can swap in a newer APU (All AMD chips this generation have onboard graphics, but not nearly as big as this one) You can also add a GPU later if needed.

I agree that the Ryzen 8700G is a contender. Something that no-one seems to be talking about is how it's specified to support up to 256GB RAM. We're just waiting on official motherboard support and RAM module availability.

 

[BGodfrey]

So I guess I'm looking for a motherboard/CPU/RAM combination which will give me good performance, long term reliability, long technical life, will accept my old drives while allowing for newer drive technologies, and will be festooned with USB ports for my Goldtouch keyboard, mouse and number pad, and with fast USB ports and/or Thunderbolt for speedier things. (Do I understand correctly that USB devices with they type C connectors can plug into Thunderbolt?) Are any other peripheral connections becoming common that I should look for? And it should all fit into my existing, large Corsair case & power supply.

Edit: Oh, just saw previous two replies. Sorry for out of sync posting.

 

[NedSmelly]

will accept my old drives while allowing for newer drive technologies, and will be festooned with USB ports for my Goldtouch keyboard, mouse and number pad, and with fast USB ports and/or Thunderbolt for speedier things

Worth noting that Thunderbolt is an Intel licensed technology, whilst USB4 is 'common standard'. Which might mean an AMD board with Thunderbolt could be pricey... or only available as add-on PCIE card. I suggest you look closely into the specs as to whether you really need Thunderbolt 4 over USB4. And a USB-C port on the motherboard doesn't necessarily mean it's USB4.

 

[BGodfrey]

Thanks for all of the replies! I now have a bunch of homework to do since some of these acronyms and technologies are new to me. I may be back with more questions or, if things go better than expected, with a configuration to sanity check.
Thanks again.
--Brian

 

[BGodfrey]

OK, so I had some health issues and then I finally bought a new MB, CPU, memory, and M.2 drive. My plan was to continue to use my existing SATA SSD drive with Windows 10 for the time being.

I got it all setup and turned it on, but the new BIOS doesn't see any bootable devices. It sees the SSD, but doesn't recognize it as bootable. I've been booting from this drive for years. I spent quite a bit of time with ASUS support and they were no help.

Any idea what might be wrong?

Thanks

 

[Lafong]

Are you trying to put an SSD that has a previous Windows installation on it into a new build that has a new motherboard/CPU/RAM combination? That isn't likely to end well. Standard suggestion is to do a clean install...to either your old SSD or your new M.2 drive.

I may not be understanding your situation?

Can you list all the current hardware you are trying to use...brand names, model numbers, etc?