Kaveri A10-7850k Is it worthy? performance to price in a gaming build?

[kabz016]

Hi Guys!
My cousin asked me to build him a gaming pc but he has a low budget so he can't get an i5 cpu.
he just games medium to high settings and does little editing (or maybe he won't edit at all).
so I searched for a system that might fit his likings. then I saw the A10-7850k and told him about it because he wants to game as early as he can. oh and he wants to add a gpu (r9 280x) later (maybe after a year or so I dunno)

He wants new platforms so Fm2+ is a check for him and to be clear "low OC'ing only" hardcore oc is a NO for him that's why I didn't recommend FX's...

He has a 18.5" monitor right now:

Here's what I recommended (Location Philippines) :
Cpu&Mobo package: A10 7850k Gigabyte GA-G1.Sniper A88x (Its a promo it has a discount here so yeah)
Ram: Gskill Sniper 8gb 1600-2133 [2x4gb] (He wants its style and please don't ask why. Because I don't know wtf he likes about it hahaha)
PSU: Antec EA650 Platinum (Why 650? its platinum, low price and for later Gpu upgrade etc... its ok right )
Storage: WDC Blue 1 TB
Chassis: Aerocool Xpredator X1/ Corsair 300R

Future Upgrades:
SSD: Samsung 840 evo 120/250GB
GPU: R9 280x
Additional HDD, Etc...

What do you guys think? please don't argue. I just want to be enlightened. Thanks! :jap:

 

[Nemesis-7]

I'm more than willing to give the 7850k a shot, just not for it's current price. Why should anyone go with the7850k when they can get more performance for less money by not choosing that particular chip?

What's the point of all the bandwidth offered by DDR3 2400 if you're going with higher timings? If you want timings similar to DDR3 1600 you're going to pay a premium which is not a mere 10 bucks.

I do agree, the price isn't the most attractive price...though it's certainly not outrageous or unfair either.
Or you could tighten the timing yourself.

Also what alternative chip are you referring to?

 

[Nemesis-7]

Now I wish lived near a microcenter!!!!

 

[bigpinkdragon286]

$232.98 - using 7850k : http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2Fqa5

$233.95 - using 760k and 7770 GHz Edition : http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2QZ4b

Since both are going to be graphics limited, which do you think is going to perform better, the one that is sharing DDR3 RAM for both graphics and CPU or the one that has dedicated GDDR5 for the graphics, DDR3 for CPU, and isn't sharing the two, and also has 128 more stream processors with a 25% clock speed improvement?

 

[Nemesis-7]

$232.98 - using 7850k : http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2Fqa5

$233.95 - using 760k and 7770 GHz Edition : http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2QZ4b

Since both are going to be graphics limited, which do you think is going to perform better, the one that is sharing DDR3 RAM for both graphics and CPU or the one that has dedicated GDDR5 for the graphics, DDR3 for CPU, and isn't sharing the two, and also has 128 more stream processors with a 25% clock speed improvement?

I did consider this EXACT combo before deciding for the 7850k....I didn't care for the cpu performance on the 760k....single or multithreaded. And although that 7770 is better than the igpu on the 7850k...it really isn't better by that much. I went for the 7850k because I like the potential of the gpu and cpu sharing tasks more closely than traditional discreet gpu's and cpu's. I think there is MUCH to be said for that. Not to mention less clutter and better cooling in my case....and a much lower TDP.

Not for everyone, but in my eyes the choice was clear.

 

[bigpinkdragon286]

I don't like the performance of the 760k either, that's why I run an FX based CPU and pair it with discreet graphics, and the performance of the CPU alone is pointless when you're performing GPU limited tasks. There is no way a 760k is going to bottleneck in games before you get to perhaps an R9 280X anyway, so what are you planning to do with all of the extra CPU performance then, which may not even add up to 10%?

Did you read Tom's review of the 7850k when it was released? The 7850k, while a nice improvement, is hardly pulling away from last years top APU offerings.

I am not opposed to using an APU where I deem it appropriate for my own needs, which is why my laptop has a C-50 in it. I bought it when they first hit the market, and have been more than satisfied with it. As for the CPU shuttling workloads between the CPU and GPU cores according to what is more efficient, that's just not happening yet, even though the potential has been there for years. When developers want to use GPU cores to perform a task, they code their program to do so. It doesn't matter if it's a discreet GPU or one that's part of the main CPU die, as they can accomplish this either way.

To say the 7850k's graphics performance isn't far behind the HD 7770 GHz edition doesn't sound very honest. The closest card to the 7850k's GPU would be an HD 7750, and the 7750 (still faster than the 7850k's iGPU) is quite a bit slower than the 7770. We're talking a performance difference of about 20% here. Feel free to look at the numbers for yourself if you like:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_7770_iCooler/28.html

Something else to keep in mind, the RAM for the APU based system really needs to be DDR3 2133 or higher to remain competitive, which adds cost, while the system using a discreet graphics card can run cheaper DDR3 1333 or DDR3 1600 and still outperform it in games.

You mentioned, tightening the timings on RAM yourself, but I would rather not have to cut corners on the higher speed RAM and hope for the best. I would rather have a set of DDR3 1600 or DDR3 1866 that come with tight timings than something faster which has to be run with looser timings. Unless you're using an APU, all of the bandwidth isn't going to help you as much as the timings will.

 

[thdarkshadow]

at the price the apu is at right now I would rarely recommend it. the cpu performs (almost) on par with a 760k and the gpu is beat by a 7750. The ONLY time I would recommend it (the 7850k) is if you are trying to build a compact PC and there was physically no room for a dedicated GPU. Otherwise you can get better performance for the same money AND have a better upgrade path if you go with a different CPU socket.

also another thing to think about: if you plan to buy a better GPU to go with the APU that is like buying the GPU twice. once for integrated which then won't be used then again for the dedicated card. It is like buying two cases. very illogical.

disclaimer: APUs do have their place in computers and can even be used in low end gaming PCs. I also think they are really good options to have in a laptop. I am not trying to say ALL APUs are never good

 

[Nemesis-7]

I don't like the performance of the 760k either, that's why I run an FX based CPU and pair it with discreet graphics, and the performance of the CPU alone is pointless when you're performing GPU limited tasks. There is no way a 760k is going to bottleneck in games before you get to perhaps an R9 280X anyway, so what are you planning to do with all of the extra CPU performance then, which may not even add up to 10%?

Did you read Tom's review of the 7850k when it was released? The 7850k, while a nice improvement, is hardly pulling away from last years top APU offerings.

I am not opposed to using an APU where I deem it appropriate for my own needs, which is why my laptop has a C-50 in it. I bought it when they first hit the market, and have been more than satisfied with it. As for the CPU shuttling workloads between the CPU and GPU cores according to what is more efficient, that's just not happening yet, even though the potential has been there for years. When developers want to use GPU cores to perform a task, they code their program to do so. It doesn't matter if it's a discreet GPU or one that's part of the main CPU die, as they can accomplish this either way.

To say the 7850k's graphics performance isn't far behind the HD 7770 GHz edition doesn't sound very honest. The closest card to the 7850k's GPU would be an HD 7750, and the 7750 (still faster than the 7850k's iGPU) is quite a bit slower than the 7770. We're talking a performance difference of about 20% here. Feel free to look at the numbers for yourself if you like:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_7770_iCooler/28.html

I'd actually take a 760k over an fx tbh. Emulation, encoding etc is why I'd like the extra cpu power.

I've seen the comparisons to previous richland apus. I like that at a lower frequency and smaller tdp the cpu it is at least 10% faster than richland ( more in other comparisons )..... while at the same time pushing gpu performance in a much bigger gain.

Not a huge pull away, but as an intro to steamroller with room to tweak is impressive.

I'm not sure by what you mean about the sharing of workloads not happening..technically it's been happening since llano. I don't feel like posting all the info but I know the articles are out there supporting advantages of an apu vs discreet when it comes to workload sharing. Also something else about openCL I read, which is supposedly where the 7850k really shines.

The GPU comparison was comparing scores on passmark. I saw a score of 1600 for a 7850k system that had 2133 ram and a medium overclock. As opposed to 7770 at 2140. Deffinitly better, just no by that much

 

[Nemesis-7]

I don't like the performance of the 760k either, that's why I run an FX based CPU and pair it with discreet graphics, and the performance of the CPU alone is pointless when you're performing GPU limited tasks. There is no way a 760k is going to bottleneck in games before you get to perhaps an R9 280X anyway, so what are you planning to do with all of the extra CPU performance then, which may not even add up to 10%?

Did you read Tom's review of the 7850k when it was released? The 7850k, while a nice improvement, is hardly pulling away from last years top APU offerings.

I am not opposed to using an APU where I deem it appropriate for my own needs, which is why my laptop has a C-50 in it. I bought it when they first hit the market, and have been more than satisfied with it. As for the CPU shuttling workloads between the CPU and GPU cores according to what is more efficient, that's just not happening yet, even though the potential has been there for years. When developers want to use GPU cores to perform a task, they code their program to do so. It doesn't matter if it's a discreet GPU or one that's part of the main CPU die, as they can accomplish this either way.

To say the 7850k's graphics performance isn't far behind the HD 7770 GHz edition doesn't sound very honest. The closest card to the 7850k's GPU would be an HD 7750, and the 7750 (still faster than the 7850k's iGPU) is quite a bit slower than the 7770. We're talking a performance difference of about 20% here. Feel free to look at the numbers for yourself if you like:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_7770_iCooler/28.html

Something else to keep in mind, the RAM for the APU based system really needs to be DDR3 2133 or higher to remain competitive, which adds cost, while the system using a discreet graphics card can run cheaper DDR3 1333 or DDR3 1600 and still outperform it in games.

You mentioned, tightening the timings on RAM yourself, but I would rather not have to cut corners on the higher speed RAM and hope for the best. I would rather have a set of DDR3 1600 or DDR3 1866 that come with tight timings than something faster which has to be run with looser timings. Unless you're using an APU, all of the bandwidth isn't going to help you as much as the timings will.

I just meant that you can be flexible with timings and clock...thats all. pre-clocked 2400mhz ram is the same price as 1333 1600 1866 and 2133. Timings can be changed with lower clock ram...so you could buy 2400mhz ram and tighten the timing...I'm basically calling it a wash....actually if anything..if what you say is true about paying more for tighter times and lower clock then it's better to get 2400 at higher timing and lower the clock and times yourself.

 

[Nemesis-7]

at the price the apu is at right now I would rarely recommend it. the cpu performs (almost) on par with a 760k and the gpu is beat by a 7750. The ONLY time I would recommend it (the 7850k) is if you are trying to build a compact PC and there was physically no room for a dedicated GPU. Otherwise you can get better performance for the same money AND have a better upgrade path if you go with a different CPU socket.

also another thing to think about: if you plan to buy a better GPU to go with the APU that is like buying the GPU twice. once for integrated which then won't be used then again for the dedicated card. It is like buying two cases. very illogical.

disclaimer: APUs do have their place in computers and can even be used in low end gaming PCs. I also think they are really good options to have in a laptop. I am not trying to say ALL APUs are never good

I posted above comparing the cpu performance of the 760k and 7850k.

The 7750 is "slightly" better than the R7...though again more heat and power. And there isn't an upgrade path on AM3+...unless your talking intel.

 

[maxalge]

here are a couple of stores I trust which have better prices than most of the others here:
and the budget is 30000 php
http://dynaquestpc.com/
http://pcx.com.ph/
http://enigma-phil.com.ph/

Ahh too bad you can't extend the budget a bit...

The fx 6300 (₱5350 @ pcx.com) is cheaper than the A10-7850k and absolutely shits on the apu at everything.

 

[Nemesis-7]

here are a couple of stores I trust which have better prices than most of the others here:
and the budget is 30000 php

http://dynaquestpc.com/
http://pcx.com.ph/
http://enigma-phil.com.ph/

The fx 6300 (₱5350 @ pcx.com) is cheaper than the A10-7850k and absolutely shits on the apu at everything.

Use the money saved for a better GPU.

Single threaded
6300: 1,414 to 7850k: 1,594

Multi
6300 : 6,375 to 7850k : 5,733

I'd hardly call that "shitting" on.......

 

[bigpinkdragon286]

APUs are good pieces of equipment, and the A10-7850k is easily the best APU on the market. It only has one real problem, in my opinion, which is that it has an absolutely lousy price. In keeping with the OP's original question about performance to price ratio in a gaming build, it loses. It's unfortunate, but you can't really put it any other way. The CPU's raw performance is irrelevant as the system is meant for gaming, which means GPU performance is the most important factor, and the 7850k's GPU kills it's value when you compare it to even a lousy CPU with a discreet graphics card. The cleanliness of the inside of my computer is always going to be secondary to the overall performance of the parts, and my recommendation can't be to go with an APU that has a bad performance to price ratio.

 

[maxalge]

here are a couple of stores I trust which have better prices than most of the others here:
and the budget is 30000 php

http://dynaquestpc.com/
http://pcx.com.ph/
http://enigma-phil.com.ph/

The fx 6300 (₱5350 @ pcx.com) is cheaper than the A10-7850k and absolutely shits on the apu at everything.

Use the money saved for a better GPU.

Single threaded
6300: 1,414 to 7850k: 1,594

Multi
6300 : 6,375 to 7850k : 5,733

I'd hardly call that "shitting" on.......

add 5-10% to the 5800k = 7850k.

so yeah in gaming the 6300 is superior.

 

[Nemesis-7]

here are a couple of stores I trust which have better prices than most of the others here:
and the budget is 30000 php

http://dynaquestpc.com/
http://pcx.com.ph/
http://enigma-phil.com.ph/

The fx 6300 (₱5350 @ pcx.com) is cheaper than the A10-7850k and absolutely shits on the apu at everything.

Use the money saved for a better GPU.

Single threaded
6300: 1,414 to 7850k: 1,594

Multi
6300 : 6,375 to 7850k : 5,733

I'd hardly call that "shitting" on.......

add 5-10% to the 5800k = 7850k.

so yeah in gaming the 6300 is superior.

CPU wise your 6300 in 10% faster than the 7850k ( though the 7850k is 11% faster in single threaded tasks )

GPU wise ( "in gaming" )the 7850k is 100% faster

unless you mean with a discreet...because I'd love to know of a graphics card faster than the R7 thats <60

Granted for $30 more you could just get a 7770 and be right on all accounts.

I agree with bigpinkdragon that the price is not as attractive as it could be... Early adopters always pay more...i'm ok with that. I like the lower TDP...I like less heat, better airflow, the progress with openCL and mantle, and the relationship the cpu&gpu have that are NOT possible with discreets. Google and dig a bit..the info is there.

 

[Nemesis-7]

APUs are good pieces of equipment, and the A10-7850k is easily the best APU on the market. It only has one real problem, in my opinion, which is that it has an absolutely lousy price. In keeping with the OP's original question about performance to price ratio in a gaming build, it loses. It's unfortunate, but you can't really put it any other way. The CPU's raw performance is irrelevant as the system is meant for gaming, which means GPU performance is the most important factor, and the 7850k's GPU kills it's value when you compare it to even a lousy CPU with a discreet graphics card. The cleanliness of the inside of my computer is always going to be secondary to the overall performance of the parts, and my recommendation can't be to go with an APU that has a bad performance to price ratio.

I wouldn't say bad, just not what he's looking for if he wants to max his games out.

You've got a cooler, more efficient, and AIO solution to HD gaming...as well as a very potential upgrade path with FM2+. I can agree with the price. For sure. I just don't think people should be so quick to shun it away. Not that you have.

 

[Nemesis-7]

Hi Guys!
My cousin asked me to build him a gaming pc but he has a low budget so he can't get an i5 cpu.
he just games medium to high settings and does little editing (or maybe he won't edit at all).
so I searched for a system that might fit his likings. then I saw the A10-7850k and told him about it because he wants to game as early as he can. oh and he wants to add a gpu (r9 280x) later (maybe after a year or so I dunno)

He wants new platforms so Fm2+ is a check for him and to be clear "low OC'ing only" hardcore oc is a NO for him that's why I didn't recommend FX's...

He has a 18.5" monitor right now:

Here's what I recommended (Location Philippines) :
Cpu&Mobo package: A10 7850k Gigabyte GA-G1.Sniper A88x (Its a promo it has a discount here so yeah)
Ram: Gskill Sniper 8gb 1600-2133 [2x4gb] (He wants its style and please don't ask why. Because I don't know wtf he likes about it hahaha)
PSU: Antec EA650 Platinum (Why 650? its platinum, low price and for later Gpu upgrade etc... its ok right )
Storage: WDC Blue 1 TB
Chassis: Aerocool Xpredator X1/ Corsair 300R

Future Upgrades:
SSD: Samsung 840 evo 120/250GB
GPU: R9 280x
Additional HDD, Etc...

What do you guys think? please don't argue. I just want to be enlightened. Thanks! :jap:

I would call it, constructive conversation 😉

If i were you, I would youtube the heck out of 7850k gaming...decided if it suits your needs. If not for sure go descreet with the 760k...you'll have the upgrade path of FM2+ and a very nice and capable 7770. Maybe down the line the APU's look a bit more appealing and you make the jump. And if not well at least you still have that sweet 7770 with options. hope this helps.

 

[bigpinkdragon286]

Don't be silly. You have the wrong impression if you feel I have shunned the 7850k. If I could justify buying an A10-7850k, I would. The day it was announced I mulled over scenarios where it made sense just so I could use it in a build. Thanks to the price, there are none. About the only use I can see for it among people I know, would be to build a media center box, as everybody already has more capable systems to play computer games on, but ultimately, it's overkill for use in an HTPC. Since the announcement of the J1800 boards at a $60 price point, which don't even need a CPU cooler, I will likely not be considering an APU for a box to connect to a TV. They're just not price competitive when the machine will never be used for entry level gaming, their power consumption is much higher, and they need active cooling.

 

[Nemesis-7]

Don't be silly. You have the wrong impression if you feel I have shunned the 7850k. If I could justify buying an A10-7850k, I would. The day it was announced I mulled over scenarios where it made sense just so I could use it in a build. Thanks to the price, there are none. About the only use I can see for it among people I know, would be to build a media center box, as everybody already has more capable systems to play computer games on, but ultimately, it's overkill for use in an HTPC. Since the announcement of the J1800 boards at a $60 price point, which don't even need a CPU cooler, I will likely not be considering an APU for a box to connect to a TV. They're just not price competitive when the machine will never be used for entry level gaming, their power consumption is much higher, and they need active cooling.

" I just don't think people should be so quick to shun it away.*****Not that you have.****** "
😉

 

[bigpinkdragon286]

At least the last half-dozen laptops I recommended, and were subsequently purchased by individuals, had APUs in them. They had the right price to performance ratio.

I'm a big fan of APUs and HSA, and disappointed because the 7850k is not price competitive. I am glad to see it using Steamroller cores however. It shows the project is not entirely dead yet.

 

[Nemesis-7]

Not even close I'd say

 

[vince232]

Hi Guys!
My cousin asked me to build him a gaming pc but he has a low budget so he can't get an i5 cpu.
he just games medium to high settings and does little editing (or maybe he won't edit at all).
so I searched for a system that might fit his likings. then I saw the A10-7850k and told him about it because he wants to game as early as he can. oh and he wants to add a gpu (r9 280x) later (maybe after a year or so I dunno)

He wants new platforms so Fm2+ is a check for him and to be clear "low OC'ing only" hardcore oc is a NO for him that's why I didn't recommend FX's...

He has a 18.5" monitor right now:

Here's what I recommended (Location Philippines) :
Cpu&Mobo package: A10 7850k Gigabyte GA-G1.Sniper A88x (Its a promo it has a discount here so yeah)
Ram: Gskill Sniper 8gb 1600-2133 [2x4gb] (He wants its style and please don't ask why. Because I don't know wtf he likes about it hahaha)
PSU: Antec EA650 Platinum (Why 650? its platinum, low price and for later Gpu upgrade etc... its ok right )
Storage: WDC Blue 1 TB
Chassis: Aerocool Xpredator X1/ Corsair 300R

Future Upgrades:
SSD: Samsung 840 evo 120/250GB
GPU: R9 280x
Additional HDD, Etc...

What do you guys think? please don't argue. I just want to be enlightened. Thanks! :jap:

dont go for the kaveri. i also live in cavite btw. haha for your budget you can build a gaming rig way more better than a kaveri apu based rig. way more rig translates to a rig capable of playing games at ultra settings on a 1920x1080p monitor even battlefield 4. . shempre hindi kasama yung crysis 3 kc kumakain tlga ng gpu yun. sa budget na yan maybe high settings sa crysis 3 without aa to achieve 35+ fps

 

[vince232]

case 2700 http://www.tipidpc.com/viewitem.php?iid=29159408
procy 8300 http://www.tipidpc.com/viewitem.php?iid=28854185
mobo 3000 http://www.tipidpc.com/viewitem.php?iid=28844568
hdd 2700 http://www.tipidpc.com/viewitem.php?iid=29234753
ram 4000 http://www.tipidpc.com/viewitem.php?iid=29018987
gpu 7500 http://www.tipidpc.com/viewitem.php?iid=29064780
psu 2200 http://www.tipidpc.com/viewitem.php?iid=28870225

this is going to be much better than a kaveri based rig.

 

[geal]

i would not get an apu (though i am not aware yet how good kaveri is) if i will get a good gpu

There's no reason not to have some extra cores in your CPU package for non-RT-graphics applications, provided that future programs - including game engines, for example - will be able to use them. Whether that will happen remains to be seen (it's more of a "social" issue than a "technical" one).

 

[logainofhades]

I would not want anything below an i3 4130 or an FX 6300 for a gaming rig. I would lean more towards the i3 for the better upgrade path.

 

[mohit9206]

I support the idea of buying the Athlon X4 750k with radeon 7770 graphics card. The gpu of 7850k would be 40% slower than athlon+7770 as gpu of 7850k = 7750 ddr3.