Knight Rider

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Do you usually ride your pony when you are a Knight or do you just keep
it around as any other pet? What are the advantages/disadvantages of
riding? I learned you can fall. And I guess you can jump while you're
on it. Not sure how that works though.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

BandC wrote:
> Do you usually ride your pony when you are a Knight or do you just
keep
> it around as any other pet? What are the advantages/disadvantages of
> riding? I learned you can fall. And I guess you can jump while
you're
> on it. Not sure how that works though.

Aside from the bonus Lars mentioned, the biggest bonus to me early in
the game was that you move at the speed of the mount you ride on. And
horses are faster than you are. Warhorses are as fast as players w/
speed boots.

What I've done, is to ride the horse as often as I could (even at lvl
1, although you must make sure you have at least 15 points of hps so
you don't die when you fall), and dismount when I run into a monster (I
want the pony to fight pretty much always, so it'll grow up to be a
warhorse as fast as it could). The speed bonus of riding the horse
made me a big fan of knights in the early game. Especially when you
hit the warhorse with a wand of speed, its speed goes up to 30,
surpassing the speed of Speed Boots.

Unfortulately, warhorses start to look a bit underpowered when you
reach dungeoun level of mid-teens. My warhorse died 3 times inside
Fort Ludios, and I ran out of the charge on my Turn undead wand and I
haven't been able to keep a horse as a mount since. I'm wished for a
blessed figurine of ki-rin w/ the castle wand and been riding it since.
I think I'm gonna #twoweapon two lances just for the mental image of a
knight with two lances *laugh*

-K

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Lars Kecke wrote:
> BandC wrote:
<snip>
> >What are the advantages/disadvantages of riding?
>
> Advantage: You can joust (+2d10 damage with lances, knocks back
enemies,
> may stun them), your carrying capacity is increased and you know
where
> your pet is.
>
> Disatvantage: You can't eat off the floor and you can't kick
chests/doors.
>
Also, this isn't the advantage of riding, but rather advantage of using
the lance...

It's a polearm-style weapon and thus can hit from 2 squares away.
Handy when you joust and knock back the target, or any situation when
you can get free hits in away from the target (Electric eels, monsters
inside castle across the moat, monsters at the doorway when the
shopkeeper blocks the entrance, etcs). Use a)pply command.

-K

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson wrote:
> Kremti wrote:
<snip>
> > Aside from the bonus Lars mentioned, the biggest bonus to me early
in
> > the game was that you move at the speed of the mount you ride on.
And
> > horses are faster than you are. Warhorses are as fast as players
w/
> > speed boots.
>
> Actually, warhorses are FASTER than players with speed boots. Normal
> movement speed is 12. Fast movement speed is 15. Very fast is 18.
> Warhorses have a speed of 24, so they get two moves every 'turn'.

Hm, I was under the impression that the progression went 12->18->24.
Makes the horses even better...

>
> Similarly, this is why dragons make poor mounts. They have a natural
> speed of 9, so even with a speed wand they only go up to 12 and get
only
> one move per turn.

Ya, that's been my impression for the short period when I used the
dragon as a mount. The slowness bothered me a lot.

> Wand of speed adds 3 to the speed of the creature, it doesn't double
it.
> IIRC, wand of speed doesn't work on ultrafast creatures anyway. 24
may
> be the max speed.

And I thought the wand added +6 (thus, my mistaken progression above).
Hm, doesn't work on 24+ eh. Too bad. I thought it did and I was
really cool *laugh*

<snip>
> Another good choice for a mount is a jabberwock; speed of 15 can get
> upped to 18 (i.e. very fast) with the speed wand, they fly and are
> tough, and they're carnivorous so they don't go untame. There's
always
> one in Orcustown, too, so at the very latest you should be able to
get
> one there.

Yeah, jabberwock is a better option if you can tame'em. ki-rin is a
lot rarer and much harder to tame with spells too. Unfortunately my
knight has yet to learn charm monster and them becoming untame isn't
too big of a worry with a knight who can dismount at will. Plus
ki-rins can cast spells (most importantly heal self) so they are
slightly more durable than jabberwock. Figured if I'm blowing a wish
for it, might as well get a rare creature.

-K

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson wrote:
> Kremti wrote:
<snip>
> > Aside from the bonus Lars mentioned, the biggest bonus to me early
in
> > the game was that you move at the speed of the mount you ride on.
And
> > horses are faster than you are. Warhorses are as fast as players
w/
> > speed boots.
>
> Actually, warhorses are FASTER than players with speed boots. Normal
> movement speed is 12. Fast movement speed is 15. Very fast is 18.
> Warhorses have a speed of 24, so they get two moves every 'turn'.

Hm, I was under the impression that the progression went 12->18->24.
Makes the horses even better...

>
> Similarly, this is why dragons make poor mounts. They have a natural
> speed of 9, so even with a speed wand they only go up to 12 and get
only
> one move per turn.

Ya, that's been my impression for the short period when I used the
dragon as a mount. The slowness bothered me a lot.

> Wand of speed adds 3 to the speed of the creature, it doesn't double
it.
> IIRC, wand of speed doesn't work on ultrafast creatures anyway. 24
may
> be the max speed.

And I thought the wand added +6 (thus, my mistaken progression above).
Hm, doesn't work on 24+ eh. Too bad. I thought it did and I was
really cool *laugh*

<snip>
> Another good choice for a mount is a jabberwock; speed of 15 can get
> upped to 18 (i.e. very fast) with the speed wand, they fly and are
> tough, and they're carnivorous so they don't go untame. There's
always
> one in Orcustown, too, so at the very latest you should be able to
get
> one there.

Yeah, jabberwock is a better option if you can tame'em. ki-rin is a
lot rarer and much harder to tame with spells too. Unfortunately my
knight has yet to learn charm monster and them becoming untame isn't
too big of a worry with a knight who can dismount at will. Plus
ki-rins can cast spells (most importantly heal self) so they are
slightly more durable than jabberwock. Figured if I'm blowing a wish
for it, might as well get a rare creature.

-K

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kremti wrote:
> BandC wrote:
>
>>Do you usually ride your pony when you are a Knight or do you just
>
> keep
>
>>it around as any other pet? What are the advantages/disadvantages of
>>riding? I learned you can fall. And I guess you can jump while
>
> you're
>
>>on it. Not sure how that works though.
>
>
> Aside from the bonus Lars mentioned, the biggest bonus to me early in
> the game was that you move at the speed of the mount you ride on. And
> horses are faster than you are. Warhorses are as fast as players w/
> speed boots.

Actually, warhorses are FASTER than players with speed boots. Normal
movement speed is 12. Fast movement speed is 15. Very fast is 18.
Warhorses have a speed of 24, so they get two moves every 'turn'.

Similarly, this is why dragons make poor mounts. They have a natural
speed of 9, so even with a speed wand they only go up to 12 and get only
one move per turn.

>
> What I've done, is to ride the horse as often as I could (even at lvl
> 1, although you must make sure you have at least 15 points of hps so
> you don't die when you fall), and dismount when I run into a monster (I
> want the pony to fight pretty much always, so it'll grow up to be a
> warhorse as fast as it could). The speed bonus of riding the horse
> made me a big fan of knights in the early game. Especially when you
> hit the warhorse with a wand of speed, its speed goes up to 30,
> surpassing the speed of Speed Boots.

Wand of speed adds 3 to the speed of the creature, it doesn't double it.
IIRC, wand of speed doesn't work on ultrafast creatures anyway. 24 may
be the max speed.

>
> Unfortulately, warhorses start to look a bit underpowered when you
> reach dungeoun level of mid-teens. My warhorse died 3 times inside
> Fort Ludios, and I ran out of the charge on my Turn undead wand and I
> haven't been able to keep a horse as a mount since. I'm wished for a
> blessed figurine of ki-rin w/ the castle wand and been riding it since.
> I think I'm gonna #twoweapon two lances just for the mental image of a
> knight with two lances *laugh*

Another good choice for a mount is a jabberwock; speed of 15 can get
upped to 18 (i.e. very fast) with the speed wand, they fly and are
tough, and they're carnivorous so they don't go untame. There's always
one in Orcustown, too, so at the very latest you should be able to get
one there.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Seraphim wrote:
> Andy Johnson <swervy.a@take-this.out.gmail.com> wrote in
news:d5t635$lob
> $1@joe.rice.edu:
>
> > Actually, warhorses are FASTER than players with speed boots.
Normal
> > movement speed is 12. Fast movement speed is 15. Very fast is 18.
> > Warhorses have a speed of 24, so they get two moves every 'turn'.
>
> As far as I can tell from looking at allmain.c a fast player doesn't
get
> a straight bonus to their speed, rather they have a 2/3 chance of
getting
> a bonus. A very fast player gets a straight bonus, along with a 1/3
> chance of a bonus. In both cases the bonus is equivelent to 1/2 of
> NORMAL_SPEED, and I belive NORMAL_SPEED is 12.
>
> So if a player has a speed of 12, then a fast player has an average
speed
> of 16 (12 + 6*2/3 = 16), and a very fast player has an average speed
of
> 20 (12 + 6 + 6*1/3 = 20).

Hm, interesting. So I was half right that the progression is
12->18->24, but you don't get that speed all the time. How does this
interact with the speed of your mounts?

-K

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

BandC wrote:
>
> Do you usually ride your pony when you are a Knight

yes.

>What are the advantages/disadvantages of riding?

Advantage: You can joust (+2d10 damage with lances, knocks back enemies,
may stun them), your carrying capacity is increased and you know where
your pet is.

Disatvantage: You can't eat off the floor and you can't kick chests/doors.

Also your pet doesn't fight as much as it would on its own (can be an
advantage or a disadvantage depending on the situation).

> I learned you can fall.

Yes. So maybe you should start riding only after reching level 2.

> And I guess you can jump while you're on it.

Knights cab #jump whether they're mounted or not, but only in a
chess-knight's pattern.

Lars

 

[seraphim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson <swervy.a@take-this.out.gmail.com> wrote in news:d5t635$lob
$1@joe.rice.edu:

> Actually, warhorses are FASTER than players with speed boots. Normal
> movement speed is 12. Fast movement speed is 15. Very fast is 18.
> Warhorses have a speed of 24, so they get two moves every 'turn'.

As far as I can tell from looking at allmain.c a fast player doesn't get
a straight bonus to their speed, rather they have a 2/3 chance of getting
a bonus. A very fast player gets a straight bonus, along with a 1/3
chance of a bonus. In both cases the bonus is equivelent to 1/2 of
NORMAL_SPEED, and I belive NORMAL_SPEED is 12.

So if a player has a speed of 12, then a fast player has an average speed
of 16 (12 + 6*2/3 = 16), and a very fast player has an average speed of
20 (12 + 6 + 6*1/3 = 20).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson <swervy.a@take-this.out.gmail.com> writes:
> Another good choice for a mount is a jabberwock; [...] There's always
> one in Orcustown, too, so at the very latest you should be able to get
> one there.

Why do you believe this?

(There's always two on the Plane of Air, but that's a little late.)

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Zabadak, karakakora kakarakak, / Zabadak, shai shai skagalak." :
: -- Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich, "Zabadak" :

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
> Andy Johnson <swervy.a@take-this.out.gmail.com> writes:
>
>>Another good choice for a mount is a jabberwock; [...] There's always
>>one in Orcustown, too, so at the very latest you should be able to get
>>one there.
>
>
> Why do you believe this?
>
> (There's always two on the Plane of Air, but that's a little late.)
>

I thought Orcustown was always generated with a J in it, but maybe I'm
wrong. You would know, I bow to your far superior knowledge of the game.
Still, it seems to me like I always encounter a sleeping one right
around the temple in there, and outside of Orcustown they seem very rare.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Thanks all for the answers. Informative. Since I'm very new to NetHack,
I'm discovering something everyday. I didn't even know different speeds
existed before I read the replies. I thought everything was moving at 1
space per turn. A few questions:

Since one turn is the smallest time unit, does that mean a slow monster
will move 1 space per 2 turns (for example) when I'm running away from a
monster on a horse?

You mention warhorses. I'd think that's different than the pony you
start with. Is that correct? The pony doesn't move as fast or fight or
as good as a warhorse right?

You talk about jousting. How does that work? I switched to my lance but
didn't see a difference in my attack range. I still attack at one space
away. Do I have to do something else? I get a message: "You begin
bashing monsters with your gloved hands." which I guess means I'm not
using my lance.


Kremti wrote:
> BandC wrote:
>
>>Do you usually ride your pony when you are a Knight or do you just
>
> keep
>
>>it around as any other pet? What are the advantages/disadvantages of
>>riding? I learned you can fall. And I guess you can jump while
>
> you're
>
>>on it. Not sure how that works though.
>
>
> Aside from the bonus Lars mentioned, the biggest bonus to me early in
> the game was that you move at the speed of the mount you ride on. And
> horses are faster than you are. Warhorses are as fast as players w/
> speed boots.
>
> What I've done, is to ride the horse as often as I could (even at lvl
> 1, although you must make sure you have at least 15 points of hps so
> you don't die when you fall), and dismount when I run into a monster (I
> want the pony to fight pretty much always, so it'll grow up to be a
> warhorse as fast as it could). The speed bonus of riding the horse
> made me a big fan of knights in the early game. Especially when you
> hit the warhorse with a wand of speed, its speed goes up to 30,
> surpassing the speed of Speed Boots.
>
> Unfortulately, warhorses start to look a bit underpowered when you
> reach dungeoun level of mid-teens. My warhorse died 3 times inside
> Fort Ludios, and I ran out of the charge on my Turn undead wand and I
> haven't been able to keep a horse as a mount since. I'm wished for a
> blessed figurine of ki-rin w/ the castle wand and been riding it since.
> I think I'm gonna #twoweapon two lances just for the mental image of a
> knight with two lances *laugh*
>
> -K
>

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Lars Kecke wrote:
> BandC wrote:
<snip>
> > I still attack at one space
> > away. Do I have to do something else? I get a message: "You begin
> > bashing monsters with your gloved hands." which I guess means I'm
not
> > using my lance.
>
> There are two things you can do with lances (or polearms in general):

> a-pplying them for better range or just using them like a normal
weapon.
> If you do the latter while not mounted you get the 'bashing with your

> lance' message (and don't do much damage). OTOH wielding the lance
while
> riding should give you 'joust' messages upon hitting a monster.

To add on Lars informative comment, 'jousting' is additional bonus you
*sometimes* receive when you use the lance as the part of a normal one
square attack while mounted. You do normal damage to the target, and
if you happen to joust you get additional damage, push the target one
square away on some cases (There must be a space behind the target, and
I *think* the target must be small or medium sized), and stun the
target for one turn (according to the spoiler, I can't be for sure
about stunning 😛). Your chance of jousting is related to your lance
skill. You don't get the jousting bonus very often when you are
unskilled or basic in lance, and you start getting the jousting bonus
very frequently when your skill is skilled or expert.

-K

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

BandC wrote:
> Thanks all for the answers. Informative. Since I'm very new to NetHack,
> I'm discovering something everyday.

So do we all. Part of Nethack's beauty is that you can discover new
things even after years of playing.

> Since one turn is the smallest time unit,

inside the game a clocktick is 1/12 (or was it 1/10? IHTSIFOMBITLTC) of
a turn.

> does that mean a slow monster
> will move 1 space per 2 turns (for example) when I'm running away from a
> monster on a horse?

You can turn on your turn counter to check (somewhere in the options
menu). Your pony's speed is 16, opposed to 12 base speed, which means
that you get 4 moves for 3 turns.

> You mention warhorses. I'd think that's different than the pony you
> start with. Is that correct?

Yes and no. Ponys grow up to be horses which grow up to be warhorses.

> The pony doesn't move as fast or fight or
> as good as a warhorse right?

right.

> You talk about jousting. How does that work? I switched to my lance but
> didn't see a difference in my attack range.

> I still attack at one space
> away. Do I have to do something else? I get a message: "You begin
> bashing monsters with your gloved hands." which I guess means I'm not
> using my lance.

There are two things you can do with lances (or polearms in general):
a-pplying them for better range or just using them like a normal weapon.
If you do the latter while not mounted you get the 'bashing with your
lance' message (and don't do much damage). OTOH wielding the lance while
riding should give you 'joust' messages upon hitting a monster.

[please snip everything you don't respond to]

Lars

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Thank you Lars and Kremti for the info.

Kremti wrote:
> Lars Kecke wrote:
>
>>BandC wrote:
>
> <snip>
>

>