that T&L numbers are only numbers...
in a real situation...
they will be closer to each other...
cpu vs gpu.
why?
because there are other things that a 3d card need to do, the same applies to the cpu But, in a real situation the numbers will get closer ..
one can say that a geforce 2 mx is not able to deliver more polygones than a athlon 1,2 ghz in a real situation...
in a real situation...
they will be closer to each other...
cpu vs gpu.
why?
because there are other things that a 3d card need to do, the same applies to the cpu But, in a real situation the numbers will get closer ..
one can say that a geforce 2 mx is not able to deliver more polygones than a athlon 1,2 ghz in a real situation...
in one year time I could upgrade my cpu and have a big boost on kyro 2 ...
<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/cpus/intel/p417/index4.html" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/cpus/intel/p417/index4.html</A>
look at the findings...
sometimes geforce 3 is not able to give what a good cpu can...
<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/cpus/intel/p417/index4.html" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/cpus/intel/p417/index4.html</A>
look at the findings...
sometimes geforce 3 is not able to give what a good cpu can...
HolyGrenade
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Have you seen these <A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/nvidia_gf3/visiontek/index7.php" target="_new">64 tap anisotropy examples</A> of the GeForce 3.
They look Brilliant.
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
They look Brilliant.
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
saw this on <A HREF="http://210.66.3.2/web/NewsCot.asp?news_id=0900509000" target="_new">http://210.66.3.2/web/NewsCot.asp?news_id=0900509000</A>
"To our valued customers:
We at C.P. Technology, again, assure our commitment with nVIDIA to be our ONLY chip set provider.
We would like to announce that C.P. Technology does not have any relationship with the company named VGA No1. This point has been verified and corrected by the media, which made this report."
hehehe
Nvidia is pushing powercolor to the wall !!!
"To our valued customers:
We at C.P. Technology, again, assure our commitment with nVIDIA to be our ONLY chip set provider.
We would like to announce that C.P. Technology does not have any relationship with the company named VGA No1. This point has been verified and corrected by the media, which made this report."
hehehe
Nvidia is pushing powercolor to the wall !!!
hum there is a new review of kyro 2
<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles/kyro2pro4500/index.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles/kyro2pro4500/index.html</A>
this are final boards from hercules...
the reviewer didn't know that directx8 have a bug (crippling the kyro when rendering into textures is used).
He might be very surprised when direcxt8.1 is out..
giants is getting 10 fps more with kyro I in directx7 than in directx8
<font color=red>"But real games do not usually have such a large overdraw, and tiles lose its advantage. And the fact that the KYRO II has a little fillrate tells negatively upon the games with complex graphics. Here is another example: "</font color=red>
what ??
seriously sam and tribes 2 are not real games ?
complex games will need more fill rate?
YES THEY WILL NEED MORE FILL RATE IF THEY INCREASE THE OVEDRAW, IF OVERDRAW IS NOT INCREASED THEN THEY WILL NOT REQUIRE MORE FILL RATE !!!
also more textures layers will help kyro a lot (sam,tribes 2) if that fill rate is so low then WHY FSAA IS SO GOOD WITH KYRO ?
FSAA NEEDS FILL RATE !!!
My conclusion is that this guy don't know much about 3d...
<font color=red>"Until this time the situation with the KYRO II looked very cheerfully, but now we have started a heavy application with complex scenes and Hardware TCL. So what can we see? Even the GeForce2 MX card easily outscores the Hercules 3D Prophet 4500. Of course, the testing was carried out at the maximum quality and relief texturing effects (Dot3 and EMBM) and cube texturing enabled. That is why this test was difficult for all cards." </font color=red>
you can judge a performance of a card based in only 2 benches ?
tell me if I am wrong but if the issue was T&L then moving to higher resolution (because kyro 2 have enough fillrate to achieve playable fps in 1280x1024. ) we would not see any decrease in the fps (because they are low in the first place in lower resolution) ... the problem must be the issue of 'rendering into textures' because the increase of the resolution would not increase the poly count
why didn't he tested mdk2 ?
it is an opengl game so there are no issues with it...
and it's a T&L game..
he was able to overclock kyro 2 to 190/190 ...
but he didn't bench much kyro 2 wit those settings...funny
<font color=red>" cons:
low popularity of such cards in many countries;"</font color=red>
hercules have low popularity ?
did TNT-1 have big popularity when it was out ?
lol
very biased review...
regartheless of all the bullshxt he managed to overclock kyro 2 to 190/190...
not bad...
the ramdac of hercules is 300 mhz not 270 mhz like he said...
<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles/kyro2pro4500/index.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles/kyro2pro4500/index.html</A>
this are final boards from hercules...
the reviewer didn't know that directx8 have a bug (crippling the kyro when rendering into textures is used).
He might be very surprised when direcxt8.1 is out..
giants is getting 10 fps more with kyro I in directx7 than in directx8
<font color=red>"But real games do not usually have such a large overdraw, and tiles lose its advantage. And the fact that the KYRO II has a little fillrate tells negatively upon the games with complex graphics. Here is another example: "</font color=red>
what ??
seriously sam and tribes 2 are not real games ?
complex games will need more fill rate?
YES THEY WILL NEED MORE FILL RATE IF THEY INCREASE THE OVEDRAW, IF OVERDRAW IS NOT INCREASED THEN THEY WILL NOT REQUIRE MORE FILL RATE !!!
also more textures layers will help kyro a lot (sam,tribes 2) if that fill rate is so low then WHY FSAA IS SO GOOD WITH KYRO ?
FSAA NEEDS FILL RATE !!!
My conclusion is that this guy don't know much about 3d...
<font color=red>"Until this time the situation with the KYRO II looked very cheerfully, but now we have started a heavy application with complex scenes and Hardware TCL. So what can we see? Even the GeForce2 MX card easily outscores the Hercules 3D Prophet 4500. Of course, the testing was carried out at the maximum quality and relief texturing effects (Dot3 and EMBM) and cube texturing enabled. That is why this test was difficult for all cards." </font color=red>
you can judge a performance of a card based in only 2 benches ?
tell me if I am wrong but if the issue was T&L then moving to higher resolution (because kyro 2 have enough fillrate to achieve playable fps in 1280x1024. ) we would not see any decrease in the fps (because they are low in the first place in lower resolution) ... the problem must be the issue of 'rendering into textures' because the increase of the resolution would not increase the poly count
why didn't he tested mdk2 ?
it is an opengl game so there are no issues with it...
and it's a T&L game..
he was able to overclock kyro 2 to 190/190 ...
but he didn't bench much kyro 2 wit those settings...funny
<font color=red>" cons:
low popularity of such cards in many countries;"</font color=red>
hercules have low popularity ?
did TNT-1 have big popularity when it was out ?
lol
very biased review...
regartheless of all the bullshxt he managed to overclock kyro 2 to 190/190...
not bad...
the ramdac of hercules is 300 mhz not 270 mhz like he said...
there is a topic on beyond3d forum about the above review
<A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/noncgi/Forum1/HTML/002761.html" target="_new">http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/noncgi/Forum1/HTML/002761.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/noncgi/Forum1/HTML/002761.html" target="_new">http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/noncgi/Forum1/HTML/002761.html</A>
noko
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Pretty interesting over there at Beyond3d.com. PowerVR any idea when Microsoft is going to realease DX8.1 and if that will fix the Kyro2 issue with rendering into a texture? Isn't Giants a OpenGL game? If so then the rendering into a texture bit is untrue for a OpenGL game.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 05/10/01 11:48 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 05/10/01 11:48 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
I just downloaded a game demo called Warm Up! (Grand Prix racing). Plays pretty well and looks OK but not that much quality "eye candy".
What I found interesting about Warm Up! is that in addition to the usual bilinear, trilinear, and anisotropic filtering, the game allows you to adjust the mip-map depth levels and filtering methods on the fly (well via menu during game play). This makes Warm Up! a good tool to demonstrate the differences in appearance.
I don't know if there is a good benchmark built into the demo but there is an ad hoc one. By simply entering the Graphics Options an average framerate is displayed. I assume this is from the start of the current play session so it makes it difficult to get a good number when changing filter options after the session starts. I hope there are better stats available.
By the way, the ESC key gets you to the menu. Find your way to Mip-Map depth setting in the Advanced Graphics Settings. HOME key switches cameras. F10 (I think) switches views to one of the computer driven cars (so you can watch without driving).
Download the Warm Up! demo from Adrenaline Vault, www.avault.com. Click <A HREF="http://www.avault.com/pcrl/demo_temp.asp?game=warmup" target="_new">here</A> to get it. There are two versions each with a different track. (I only previewed the one containing the Canadian track).
What I found interesting about Warm Up! is that in addition to the usual bilinear, trilinear, and anisotropic filtering, the game allows you to adjust the mip-map depth levels and filtering methods on the fly (well via menu during game play). This makes Warm Up! a good tool to demonstrate the differences in appearance.
I don't know if there is a good benchmark built into the demo but there is an ad hoc one. By simply entering the Graphics Options an average framerate is displayed. I assume this is from the start of the current play session so it makes it difficult to get a good number when changing filter options after the session starts. I hope there are better stats available.
By the way, the ESC key gets you to the menu. Find your way to Mip-Map depth setting in the Advanced Graphics Settings. HOME key switches cameras. F10 (I think) switches views to one of the computer driven cars (so you can watch without driving).
Download the Warm Up! demo from Adrenaline Vault, www.avault.com. Click <A HREF="http://www.avault.com/pcrl/demo_temp.asp?game=warmup" target="_new">here</A> to get it. There are two versions each with a different track. (I only previewed the one containing the Canadian track).
Noko, Giants is a directx game
I saw this here <A HREF="http://pvr.gamestats.com/start.shtml" target="_new">http://pvr.gamestats.com/start.shtml</A>
<font color=blue><i> We reported yesterday that PowerColor will in fact be making a KYRO II board, but will be doing so from a new company called VGA-NO1. Well, PowerColor have posted this bit of news on their website:
To our valued customers:
We at C.P. Technology, again, assure our commitment with nVIDIA to be our ONLY chip set provider.
We would like to announce that C.P. Technology does not have any relationship with the company named VGA No1. This point has been verified and corrected by the media, which made this report.
I must give NVIDIA credit for having the power to force companies to dance under their 6-shooter of a glare. BUT, Reactor Critical have found out this very interesting bit of news by doing a WHOIS for the domain name of VGA-NO1:
Registrant:
C.P. Technology Co., Ltd
12F, No. 86, Hsin Tai Wu Rd. Sec. 1, Hsi-Chih, Taipei Hsien, Taiwan 221, R.O.C.
TW
Domain Name: vgano1
Contact:
Wang Poliang poliang@powercolor.com.tw
TEL: (02)2696-0088#102
FAX: (02)2696-0099
Record expires on 24-APR-02
Record created on 18-APR-01
Domain servers in listed order:
dns.is.net.tw 210.62.128.1
dns1.is.net.tw 210.62.128.2
Registrar: HINET URL: http://nweb.hinet.net
So it does look as if PowerColor is in fact part of VGA-NO1, but they have to deny it so they will NOT piss of off the boys at NVIDIA. Who here thinks NVIDIA is getting a bit too big for their own britches?
</font color=red></i>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by powervr2 on 05/10/01 05:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
I saw this here <A HREF="http://pvr.gamestats.com/start.shtml" target="_new">http://pvr.gamestats.com/start.shtml</A>
<font color=blue><i> We reported yesterday that PowerColor will in fact be making a KYRO II board, but will be doing so from a new company called VGA-NO1. Well, PowerColor have posted this bit of news on their website:
To our valued customers:
We at C.P. Technology, again, assure our commitment with nVIDIA to be our ONLY chip set provider.
We would like to announce that C.P. Technology does not have any relationship with the company named VGA No1. This point has been verified and corrected by the media, which made this report.
I must give NVIDIA credit for having the power to force companies to dance under their 6-shooter of a glare. BUT, Reactor Critical have found out this very interesting bit of news by doing a WHOIS for the domain name of VGA-NO1:
Registrant:
C.P. Technology Co., Ltd
12F, No. 86, Hsin Tai Wu Rd. Sec. 1, Hsi-Chih, Taipei Hsien, Taiwan 221, R.O.C.
TW
Domain Name: vgano1
Contact:
Wang Poliang poliang@powercolor.com.tw
TEL: (02)2696-0088#102
FAX: (02)2696-0099
Record expires on 24-APR-02
Record created on 18-APR-01
Domain servers in listed order:
dns.is.net.tw 210.62.128.1
dns1.is.net.tw 210.62.128.2
Registrar: HINET URL: http://nweb.hinet.net
So it does look as if PowerColor is in fact part of VGA-NO1, but they have to deny it so they will NOT piss of off the boys at NVIDIA. Who here thinks NVIDIA is getting a bit too big for their own britches?
</font color=red></i>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by powervr2 on 05/10/01 05:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
I don't know much about it...
but I thnik (from what microsoft said) it will be fixed via 2 options.
1. final release of directx8.1
or
2. new set drivers for kyro 2
but I don't know much more...
it's not a bug...
microsoft did disable this kyro feature because they didn't have any kyro to test...(that is what they say)...
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by powervr2 on 05/11/01 04:55 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
but I thnik (from what microsoft said) it will be fixed via 2 options.
1. final release of directx8.1
or
2. new set drivers for kyro 2
but I don't know much more...
it's not a bug...
microsoft did disable this kyro feature because they didn't have any kyro to test...(that is what they say)...
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by powervr2 on 05/11/01 04:55 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
HolyGrenade
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The bit above is a comment by the pvr columnist and not by the Powercolor representative. They would be stupid to say something like that above.
Honestly speaking, I have to say, we see exclusive deals happening all over the place, all the time. Sometime its how small oems quickly make money. You sign with a manufacturer to exclusively deal with their products only, in return for paying the a lower cut of your sales.
Its true the larger companies can take advantage by making it a long deal, but when you make such a deal, you have to ride it out. There is no popint bitching about it.
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
HolyGrenade
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I thought Direct X interigated the hardware drivers to determine the available features. There must be something screwed up with this version of direct x. Well, At least it doesn't make your computer crash like the first revision of Direct X 7.0.
They should allow you to step back a version, if things get hairy. Pety that. By Microsofts own definition: to be qualified as a software compatible with win9x and above it must support the uninstall feature as included with windows or on its own. I suppose Direct X is not compatible with Win9x or Win2k then.
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
They should allow you to step back a version, if things get hairy. Pety that. By Microsofts own definition: to be qualified as a software compatible with win9x and above it must support the uninstall feature as included with windows or on its own. I suppose Direct X is not compatible with Win9x or Win2k then.
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
kyro 2 at 201 mhz !!!!
<A HREF="http://www.aceshardware.com/#N25000416" target="_new">http://www.aceshardware.com/#N25000416</A>
videologic will make a kyro 2 without a fan ?
hercules will be a better option for kyro 2 at least they put a fan...
of course we can put one..
and if it run stable without a fan in 175 mhz then with a fan ... it will fly !!
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by powervr2 on 05/11/01 08:43 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
<A HREF="http://www.aceshardware.com/#N25000416" target="_new">http://www.aceshardware.com/#N25000416</A>
videologic will make a kyro 2 without a fan ?
hercules will be a better option for kyro 2 at least they put a fan...
of course we can put one..
and if it run stable without a fan in 175 mhz then with a fan ... it will fly !!
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by powervr2 on 05/11/01 08:43 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
HolyGrenade
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Not to be rude or anything, but I was kinda confused in your post...
<b>Fan</b> not <b>Fun</b>
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
<b>Fan</b> not <b>Fun</b>
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
hehehe yap you are right...
fan not fun
my bad english...
I will correct my post...
thanks man...
maybe I would like the kyro chip to have big fun
take notice that 25 mhz (12.5 % more speed) is more than a similiar increase in a traditional card.
in a 4 overdraw game it will get 1600 megapixels fill rate
if it were at 175 mhz then in a game with 4x overdraw it would only get 1200 that is a extraordinary increase..
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by powervr2 on 05/11/01 08:45 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
fan not fun
my bad english...
I will correct my post...
thanks man...
maybe I would like the kyro chip to have big fun
take notice that 25 mhz (12.5 % more speed) is more than a similiar increase in a traditional card.
in a 4 overdraw game it will get 1600 megapixels fill rate
if it were at 175 mhz then in a game with 4x overdraw it would only get 1200 that is a extraordinary increase..
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by powervr2 on 05/11/01 08:45 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
The magazine PC Professional in german, have tested some cards (kyro 2 included) and they were very surprised with kyro 2 !
(good drivers,great image quality)
Yap I know that this is very subjective testing, there are no benchmarking...
"sehr gut" translated is "Very good"
<A HREF="http://www.mitrax.de/bilder/pcpro.jpg" target="_new">http://www.mitrax.de/bilder/pcpro.jpg</A>
(good drivers,great image quality)
Yap I know that this is very subjective testing, there are no benchmarking...
"sehr gut" translated is "Very good"
<A HREF="http://www.mitrax.de/bilder/pcpro.jpg" target="_new">http://www.mitrax.de/bilder/pcpro.jpg</A>
HolyGrenade
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Hey, dont you wanna go to the <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq¬found=1&code=1" target="_new">Radeon 2 and 3 info @ Digit-life</A> thread and post your prediction of what will happen over the next few months?
We have one view from an ATI user, one from an nVidia user. we need an imgtec user!
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
We have one view from an ATI user, one from an nVidia user. we need an imgtec user!
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
<A HREF="http://www.m3dzone.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=14" target="_new">http://www.m3dzone.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=14</A>
he even said that he wants to exchange is geforce 2 ultra for this kyro 2 board...
maybe he is exaggerating a little bit...
he even said that he wants to exchange is geforce 2 ultra for this kyro 2 board...
maybe he is exaggerating a little bit...
HolyGrenade
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He didn't say that. Anyway, he seems to have drawn comparitive conclusions without including the other cards in the benchmarks.
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
noko
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We seemed to have missed the second review of the KyroII at Ace's Hardware. It pretty much confirms the T&L issue that we discussed in Part 1 of this rather long threads. More of a eye opener then the first review.
<b>GeForce 3 and Kyro II: Performance In-Depth</b>
<A HREF="http://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/read.php?article_id=25000233" target="_new">http://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/read.php?article_id=25000233</A>
<b>GeForce 3 and Kyro II: Performance In-Depth</b>
<A HREF="http://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/read.php?article_id=25000233" target="_new">http://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/read.php?article_id=25000233</A>
</font color=purple></i>
Super Long Thread!!
Has anyone heard of any rumoured specs that will be on the kyro III.
All I know is that it should have T&L.
It should be around for the holidays.
I hope THG and other sites give the Kyro II a good once over when they get it(or NDA time period is over). From what I have read so far, this card is meant to be run @ high resolutions w/ 4x FSAA. If they can over clock the processor to 200 by just installing a fan over the Heat Sink than it should do very well. The only problem I see with that is that the memory has to be clocked to the same frequency as the processor. So hopefully, the memory can be overclocked to 200 easily.
Has anyone heard of any rumoured specs that will be on the kyro III.
All I know is that it should have T&L.
It should be around for the holidays.
I hope THG and other sites give the Kyro II a good once over when they get it(or NDA time period is over). From what I have read so far, this card is meant to be run @ high resolutions w/ 4x FSAA. If they can over clock the processor to 200 by just installing a fan over the Heat Sink than it should do very well. The only problem I see with that is that the memory has to be clocked to the same frequency as the processor. So hopefully, the memory can be overclocked to 200 easily.
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