Laptops on eBay with no OS: what's the deal?

[jhsachs]

I'm shopping for a cheap rarely-to-be-needed laptop, and I see a lot of used machines offered on eBay with no OS.

I'm puzzled by that because as far as I know, all computer manufacturers have agreements with Microsoft that make it impractical, if not impossible, to sell a new computer without an OS. So what does this mean? Have these sellers tapped into a secret source of no-OS machines? Or do they sell the OS license (illegally) and then sell off the licenseless hardware? Or do the machines come with a Windows license, but no OS, so the buyer just has to install it themself?

 

[SkyNetRising]

Those will have some other OS installed - FreeDOS or some linux.

 

[sgsharkie]

Some users only want Linux or will have another version of Windows, so would prefer to buy a laptop without having to pay the premium for Windows being included.

 

[TerryLaze]

I'm puzzled by that because as far as I know, all computer manufacturers have agreements with Microsoft that make it impractical, if not impossible, to sell a new computer without an OS.

All OEMs buy licences from microsoft but the agreement is not that they have to include windows with all their products...
OEMs do include windows because that's what 100% of people know and 99% of the people use so of course it makes sense to include it since they get it cheaper.
A lot of OEMs make small runs with laptops without windows you can find them in normal (brick and mortar) stores even.

 

[hang-the-9]

I'm shopping for a cheap rarely-to-be-needed laptop, and I see a lot of used machines offered on eBay with no OS.

I'm puzzled by that because as far as I know, all computer manufacturers have agreements with Microsoft that make it impractical, if not impossible, to sell a new computer without an OS. So what does this mean? Have these sellers tapped into a secret source of no-OS machines? Or do they sell the OS license (illegally) and then sell off the licenseless hardware? Or do the machines come with a Windows license, but no OS, so the buyer just has to install it themself?

Used computers don't have anything to do with the OEM Microsoft setup, if the original OS license is lost or the drive is wiped or removed or replaced the seller can get a re-seller license of the OS, or not and just sell the system blank. There is really nothing in any type of agreement that states a laptop vendor needs to install Windows on the system. And as in the post above about other OS being installed, in many countries a lot of computers are sold without Windows. Of course what then happens is that whoever buys it just installs a pirated or maybe just an unlicensed version of Windows anyway and does not activate it.

 

[bignastyid]

I'm puzzled by that because as far as I know, all computer manufacturers have agreements with Microsoft that make it impractical, if not impossible, to sell a new computer without an OS

This would be incorrect, manufactures are not required to include windows and it's not hard to order a system without Windows. Businesses do this all the time as they have VL's for windows(usually windows enterprise edition) and do not require a license from the manufacture.

 

[Barty1884]

I see a lot of used machines offered on eBay with no OS.

I'm puzzled by that because as far as I know, all computer manufacturers have agreements with Microsoft that make it impractical, if not impossible, to sell a new computer without an OS.

Used systems are a totally different ballgame. Many reasons that it wouldn't ship with an OS (most common being it doesn't ship with an HDD or SSD, so there's nowhere for it to be installed).

As has been commented on, there's no "agreement" that forces a manufacturer to install Windows on a new machine. It's advantageous to do so, given 99.99% of customers will want Windows anyway. Then there's the benefit of the money manufacturers can gain from agreeing to install bloatware inside Windows...

 

[jhsachs]

Barty: That's a useful insight but not the whole story. An eBay search on Lenovo Thinkpad "No OS" yielded about 350 hits, about 200 of which do have a disk. Something more is happening.

Others: I appreciate your efforts to be helpful, but none of the questions you answered were the one I asked. Let me try to frame my question more clearly.

How and why do computers with no OS find their way to market, and if I bought one, what would I be getting? An impeccably cared-for machine retired by a corporation that made a special deal with the maker, or a piece of junk left over after a pirate sold off the license? What is the likelihood that it would come with an original license, so that i would just have to replace the hard disk if there was none and reinstall Windows?

"They are sold with, or the owner installed, a different operating system" is neither accurate nor meaningful. First, a search that includes "No OS" presumably will find mostly machines with no OS. People bungle eBay's feature checklists a lot, but no one is going to write a description that greatly reduces the value of their item unless it's true. Second, a search for Lenovo Thinkpad alone yielded about 1700 hits; all but 26 specified some form of Windows, and those broke down as: not specified 23, Linux 3. Even allowing for bungled checklists, that suggests that people who install Linux on laptops are actually quite rare.

 

[SkyNetRising]

Barty: That's a useful insight but not the whole story. An eBay search on Lenovo Thinkpad "No OS" yielded about 350 hits, about 200 of which do have a disk. Something more is happening.

Those ebay listings are 99.9% used, refurbished, pre owned or just parts (probably 100%, didn't check them all).
When buying a new computer, it will most certainly have some OS installed. This does not apply to used/refurbished/pre-owned.

 

[bignastyid]

How and why do computers with no OS find their way to market, and if I bought one, what would I be getting?

Businesses sell their old systems on ebay(and other places) all the time that have no os and possibly no hdd or ssd.
If you bought one you'd be getting a system with no os, sure it's possible it may have a license but unless the description says it does, assume it does not.

 

[geofelt]

Anything can be bought or sold on ebay, just so long as it is accurately described.
Considering the cost of a legitimate windows license, I suggest you buy a laptop that includes the os.
There are many corporate laptops that come off lease and are being resold.
I think I would look for a refurb unit that meets your need. You may find something cheap with a HDD and minimal ram.
It is easy to up the ram and replace a HDD with a ssd.
I would never run a laptop today without a ssd.

 

[Barty1884]

How and why do computers with no OS find their way to market

Because there is no reason they can't? There are regions in the world where it's fairly common (from new), it's just rare that it crosses to the US or Europe.

I'm not going to trawl through EULA for various versions of Windows but, from memory, there's verbiage to the effect of 'licenses can only be sold with the original hardware'. While somewhat open to interpretation, it's entirely possible that sellers of used hardware especially, are wary of such terms - an HDD/SDD may have been replaced, RAM upgraded etc, potentially breaching the EULA on a trivial level - which may or may not hold up in court (in Europe, I believe it's been tested, and doesn't)..... And therefor err on the side of caution to avoid the (slim) potential wrath of a corporate giant such as MS.

There's an e-recycler close to me, who sells substantial volume of Desktops/Laptops with no OS/drive for this reason. Most of their systems still have legible product key stickers on them (for older stuff).

Their main reasons are:

1. They don't want the potential hassle of MS knocking at their door, however slim the chances are.
2. They're don't want to take the risk of selling HDDs/SSDs full stop, knowing that user data can be recovered, more often than not. While they could DBAN each drive before sale, the time investment is not worthwhile.

if I bought one, what would I be getting? An impeccably cared-for machine retired by a corporation that made a special deal with the maker, or a piece of junk left over after a pirate sold off the license? What is the likelihood that it would come with an original license, so that i would just have to replace the hard disk if there was none and reinstall Windows?

Depends on the listing/seller. Clearly too many variables to state definitively.
Technically, if a laptop previously had Windows 10 (or 8, I think) installed, it would very likely re-activate with a "digital license", after you install a drive/OS - as it's tied to hardware/motherboard/BIOS. Even with that though, it doesn't mean the license hasn't been reused elsewhere (tied to a MS account and reactivated), which runs the risk of it de-activating at some point in the future.

a search for Lenovo Thinkpad alone yielded about 1700 hits; all but 26 specified some form of Windows, and those broke down as: not specified 23, Linux 3.

So 26/1700, 98.5% ship with some form of Windows. The remaining 1.5% likely includes sellers who have removed HDDs/SSDs for security purposes - and are selling off the 'shell'. Ie, they've no desire to source a drive and install Windows, when they're not likely to recoup the cost of a (new) HDD + time spend during the sale.

Even allowing for bungled checklists, that suggests that people who install Linux on laptops are actually quite rare.

That really isn't what that suggests, at all. Typically, users who install Linux on laptops are more tech-savvy, and more than capable of doing so themselves. They are not the same demographic who 'need' Windows installed from the off, like most consumers.

I do agree, volume-wise, Linux is far from significant.

 

[jhsachs]

More useful information in those responses. Thank you.

One observation: whenever I buy a used Windows machine I wipe the disk and reinstall Windows for security purposes, even if I bought it from my mother (if she were still with us). So the extra labor involved in installing Windows on a "no OS" machine is zero. If the machine comes with a valid license tag, the cost is zero too.

 

[USAFRet]

More useful information in those responses. Thank you.

One observation: whenever I buy a used Windows machine I wipe the disk and reinstall Windows for security purposes, even if I bought it from my mother (if she were still with us). So the extra labor involved in installing Windows on a "no OS" machine is zero. If the machine comes with a valid license tag, the cost is zero too.

If it is a corporate castoff, you'd need to buy your own OS license. They would not include their corporate licensing.

 

[hang-the-9]

More useful information in those responses. Thank you.

One observation: whenever I buy a used Windows machine I wipe the disk and reinstall Windows for security purposes, even if I bought it from my mother (if she were still with us). So the extra labor involved in installing Windows on a "no OS" machine is zero. If the machine comes with a valid license tag, the cost is zero too.

If you are doing the work or paying someone to do the work, the cost is not 0, it takes quite a bit of time to install Windows and drivers on a computer. If you are running a business, that time is not at a 0 cost. Also if the person/company selling the computer is any good they would also need to run some disk tests to make sure the drive is good and make sure all drivers are installed properly.

There is also no way in general to say if you buy a used system if you will get a good one, bad one, what it will come with, etc.. it all depends on what you are buying specifically. No one can say what shape it will be or if it comes with any sort of license or sticker or anything, the specific computer you are looking at will be listed with all those details by the seller. If it's not, then you need to contact the seller to get what details you want.

As soon as you leave the new computer market what you get depends on what you are looking to buy.

 

[USAFRet]

There is also no way in general to say if you buy a used system if you will get a good one, bad one, what it will come with, etc.. it all depends on what you are buying specifically. No one can say what shape it will be or if it comes with any sort of license or sticker or anything, the specific computer you are looking at will be listed with all those details by the seller. If it's not, then you need to contact the seller to get what details you want.

Indeed.
The 'refurbished' Asus Trasformer I bought in Feb 2019.
Came with WIn 10 Pro installed.
Exactly 6 months later, poof, Unactivated.
The refurbisher installed a corporate license that was looking for its corporate license server. Upon not checking in within the 6 months...poof, no license for me.

hassle hassle hassle