[SOLVED] Limitations of my existing PSU ?

[computerisslow]

OK, so I have a hp compaq 6200 pro sff pc, I know its old but it works for what I need. I currently have 32 gb ram, gt 1030, a 2gb ssd and a i7 2600 installed in it. I am curious as to if a gtx 1050 could fit as well as be playable in it due to the little 240w psu. I have gotten nothing but mixed opinions whenever I search through this same question in the past because of the mix of cpu, ram and gpu. I want to run decent games on this computer and I know that the graphics card is the biggest bottleneck as I can run MHW on modified medium graphics settings with decent fps but it requires I overclocked the gt 1030, I would like to just run a better card and feel safer. I read that the slot gives 75w which is exaclty what you need for a gtx1050
And finally if I can run a gtx 1050 would there be any harm to a gtx 1050 ti over the regular? like would the ti affect the system differently with bios

 

[punkncat]

I took a couple of guesses about the hardware on the Outervision PSU calculator and both of the 1050 variants draw too much power, even discounting the age of the unit. For both it is recommending a 300+W unit with load over 250W.

 

[Aeacus]

I want to run decent games on this computer

Unless you upgrade your PSU, it is not going to happen.

GTX 1050 consumes twice + then some power, compared to GT 1030 (75W vs 30W). And your PSU is already borderline on what it is capable of delivering, since you're running 95W CPU in there.

If you would have 65W CPU, then maybe. But with 95W chip + 75W GPU + ~100W for rest of the components = "boom".

Or if you don't believe me, go ahead and put GTX 1050 into there. If lucky, PC turns on. If very lucky, you'll see fireworks and magic smoke out of your PSU as well. And chances are good that PSU fries everything it is connected to, when it goes sky high.

 

[Karadjgne]

The gtx1050 will work. For anything 2d. Windows, websurfing, emails, office work, pretty much everything to do with day to day normal stuff.

2d takes next to no real gpu draw, doesn't challenge it in the slightest. It'd work no harder than the igpu in the i7.

The issue would come with 3d apps, namely games. That'll use 70-100% of available power draw of the gpu. The problem with that issue is there's no control other than you limiting the power consumption which basically gives you a GT1030. Having no control means something has to give. Either you'll get shutdowns, blackscreens, bluescreens, or on the event you have a really lousy old psu, it could try to keep everything powered and that's when Aeacus' fireworks happen and very potentially you'll be the proud owner of a burned out psu, gpu, cpu and/or motherboard.

 

[.valkyrie.]

OK, so I have a hp compaq 6200 pro sff pc, I know its old but it works for what I need. I currently have 32 gb ram, gt 1030, a 2gb ssd and a i7 2600 installed in it. I am curious as to if a gtx 1050 could fit as well as be playable in it due to the little 240w psu. I have gotten nothing but mixed opinions whenever I search through this same question in the past because of the mix of cpu, ram and gpu. I want to run decent games on this computer and I know that the graphics card is the biggest bottleneck as I can run MHW on modified medium graphics settings with decent fps but it requires I overclocked the gt 1030, I would like to just run a better card and feel safer. I read that the slot gives 75w which is exaclty what you need for a gtx1050
And finally if I can run a gtx 1050 would there be any harm to a gtx 1050 ti over the regular? like would the ti affect the system differently with bios

well, i was able to run a 95W cpu i7 3770+ 750ti which is 60 or 65W without any other stuff connect to my case with a 226w PSU. and it was stable. so i guess 1050 will be able to run on your pc. also you can always lower turbo boost power draw on your cpu (i did same on i5 9400 once).... also try not to use other stuff like dvd rom or .... although they use other voltage , but that may lower the output of required Voltage by cpu and vga

 

[computerisslow]

Unless you upgrade your PSU, it is not going to happen.

GTX 1050 consumes twice + then some power, compared to GT 1030 (75W vs 30W). And your PSU is already borderline on what it is capable of delivering, since you're running 95W CPU in there.

If you would have 65W CPU, then maybe. But with 95W chip + 75W GPU + ~100W for rest of the components = "boom".

Or if you don't believe me, go ahead and put GTX 1050 into there. If lucky, PC turns on. If very lucky, you'll see fireworks and magic smoke out of your PSU as well. And chances are good that PSU fries everything it is connected to, when it goes sky high.

I have considered getting a bigger psu and simply setting it outside the case as that would be the only option as there is no aftermarket psu that replaces the odd shaped one I have. I know that there are other hp sff that have bigger psus and I have thought about just getting a new case for cheap somewhere too...

The gtx1050 will work. For anything 2d. Windows, websurfing, emails, office work, pretty much everything to do with day to day normal stuff.

2d takes next to no real gpu draw, doesn't challenge it in the slightest. It'd work no harder than the igpu in the i7.

The issue would come with 3d apps, namely games. That'll use 70-100% of available power draw of the gpu. The problem with that issue is there's no control other than you limiting the power consumption which basically gives you a GT1030. Having no control means something has to give. Either you'll get shutdowns, blackscreens, bluescreens, or on the event you have a really lousy old psu, it could try to keep everything powered and that's when Aeacus' fireworks happen and very potentially you'll be the proud owner of a burned out psu, gpu, cpu and/or motherboard.

I would definitely need it to work 3d stuff and want no trouble in a pc after throwing any money at it. I really don't need a burnt out pc.

well, i was able to run a 95W cpu i7 3770+ 750ti which is 60 or 65W without any other stuff connect to my case with a 226w PSU. and it was stable. so i guess 1050 will be able to run on your pc. also you can always lower turbo boost power draw on your cpu (i did same on i5 9400 once).... also try not to use other stuff like dvd rom or .... although they use other voltage , but that may lower the output of required Voltage by cpu and vga

A lower watt cpu mightbe my only hope should I want to actually keep this the way it is

 

[computerisslow]

Would it be possible to simply get a different case for a regulars psu and use that instead? I would want one that sff preferably as I like the smaller size. If I somehow did find one would a 320 psu be enough or should I go higher? and where would i get a aftermarket case anyway, unless I can plug and play any aftermarket psu

 

[.valkyrie.]

i didn't lower my 3770 wattage... i said maby...
the 9400 was a different situations.
of course a 320w psu will be more than enough.
maby try first and see if it work or not. also have you considered Rx6400? thats a 53W gpu? i just remember it since my friend got one. but its a PCIe 4 i'm not sure if it work fine with your motherboard and i dont know about price difference between them.

 

[Aeacus]

Would it be possible to simply get a different case for a regulars psu and use that instead? I would want one that sff preferably as I like the smaller size. If I somehow did find one would a 320 psu be enough or should I go higher? and where would i get a aftermarket case anyway, unless I can plug and play any aftermarket psu

Since you have HP prebuilt, it has proprietary MoBo and PSU. PC case too.

At this point, it would be wasteful to throw any money to it, since none of the standard hardware works with it.

Few examples:
Here's an image of your MoBo;

As you can probably make out, it isn't powered by 20/24-pin ATX socket, but instead it has 6-pin and 4-pin power sockets. <- These connectors require proprietary PSU, compatible with this specific MoBo. So, PSU upgrade would be out of the question, that is, unless you'll find bigger capacity PSU with same, proprietary power connectors.

Also, MoBo itself isn't standard from factor ATX either. It's too big to be mini-ITX and too wide to be micro-ATX. So, MoBo won't fit into normal PC cases either (well, it fits, but standoffs are in different spots and you can't fasten the MoBo to a PC case). MoBo layout is also reversed compared to ATX standard.

Since you have SFF PC case, only low-profile GPUs fit in there. Most GTX 1050 GPUs are full-height.
To get and idea of the low-profile i'm talking about, here's comparison between two cards:

So, don't waste your money on this proprietary prebuilt. Instead look for a new PC. And you can also go with small build, mini-ITX in a small PC case.
E.g this modern SFF build, in a similar HTPC PC case as your current build is;

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i3-12100 3.3 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($142.78 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME H610I-PLUS D4-CSM Mini ITX LGA1700 Motherboard ($108.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($44.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Zotac AMP Core GeForce GTX 1650 G6 4 GB Video Card ($169.99 @ Newegg Sellers)
Case: Fractal Design Node 202 HTPC Case ($98.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair SF600 600 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $750.71

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-02-04 11:50 EST-0500

Few words.
All what is needed are included. But to keep the price low, i put in 500 GB OS drive, which is M.2 drive and lives on your MoBo. So, no additional space is taken up by 2.5"/3.5" drives. GPU is GTX 1650 and it's the best 75W GPU currently out there. PSU is SFX and it's the smallest capacity unit (600W) to choose from. CPU cooler is included with CPU and PC case is personal choice. If you don't like the Node 202, you can switch it out.

Note: if you have money money, you can easily replace the M.2 NVMe SSD with bigger one, go with more RAM (currently put in 16GB DDR4) and better GPU.

Just for comparison, your current build as Baseline, my suggestion as Alternative;

Userbenchmark PC Build Comparison

Baseline Bench: Game 15%, Desk 75%, Work 13%
CPU: Intel Core i7-2700K
GPU: Nvidia GT 1030
SSD: Samsung 860 Evo 2TB
RAM: G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3 1600 C10 4x8GB

Alternative Bench: Game 48%, Desk 103%, Work 42%
CPU: Intel Core i3-12100
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1650
SSD: Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe PCIe M.2 500GB
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 C16 2x8GB

Note: Wasn't sure what SSD and RAM you have, so put in those that i think you might have (860 Evo and 1600 Mhz DDR3).

 

[computerisslow]

Since you have HP prebuilt, it has proprietary MoBo and PSU. PC case too.

At this point, it would be wasteful to throw any money to it, since none of the standard hardware works with it.

Few examples:
Here's an image of your MoBo;

As you can probably make out, it isn't powered by 20/24-pin ATX socket, but instead it has 6-pin and 4-pin power sockets. <- These connectors require proprietary PSU, compatible with this specific MoBo. So, PSU upgrade would be out of the question, that is, unless you'll find bigger capacity PSU with same, proprietary power connectors.

Also, MoBo itself isn't standard from factor ATX either. It's too big to be mini-ITX and too wide to be micro-ATX. So, MoBo won't fit into normal PC cases either (well, it fits, but standoffs are in different spots and you can't fasten the MoBo to a PC case). MoBo layout is also reversed compared to ATX standard.

Since you have SFF PC case, only low-profile GPUs fit in there. Most GTX 1050 GPUs are full-height.
To get and idea of the low-profile i'm talking about, here's comparison between two cards:

So, don't waste your money on this proprietary prebuilt. Instead look for a new PC. And you can also go with small build, mini-ITX in a small PC case.
E.g this modern SFF build, in a similar HTPC PC case as your current build is;

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i3-12100 3.3 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($142.78 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME H610I-PLUS D4-CSM Mini ITX LGA1700 Motherboard ($108.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($44.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Zotac AMP Core GeForce GTX 1650 G6 4 GB Video Card ($169.99 @ Newegg Sellers)
Case: Fractal Design Node 202 HTPC Case ($98.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair SF600 600 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $750.71

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-02-04 11:50 EST-0500

Few words.
All what is needed are included. But to keep the price low, i put in 500 GB OS drive, which is M.2 drive and lives on your MoBo. So, no additional space is taken up by 2.5"/3.5" drives. GPU is GTX 1650 and it's the best 75W GPU currently out there. PSU is SFX and it's the smallest capacity unit (600W) to choose from. CPU cooler is included with CPU and PC case is personal choice. If you don't like the Node 202, you can switch it out.

Note: if you have money money, you can easily replace the M.2 NVMe SSD with bigger one, go with more RAM (currently put in 16GB DDR4) and better GPU.

Just for comparison, your current build as Baseline, my suggestion as Alternative;

Userbenchmark PC Build Comparison

Baseline Bench: Game 15%, Desk 75%, Work 13%
CPU: Intel Core i7-2700K
GPU: Nvidia GT 1030
SSD: Samsung 860 Evo 2TB
RAM: G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3 1600 C10 4x8GB

Alternative Bench: Game 48%, Desk 103%, Work 42%
CPU: Intel Core i3-12100
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1650
SSD: Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe PCIe M.2 500GB
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 C16 2x8GB

Note: Wasn't sure what SSD and RAM you have, so put in those that i think you might have (860 Evo and 1600 Mhz DDR3).

This is so much info that is very much needed, THANK YOU. After looking at the builds and comparisons I definitely feel like I want to look into a new sff pc. The largest reason for trying to upgrade this one is sentimental value, first computer that I got and have just been slowly chipping away at parts for a few years as its not a dedicated game pc. though I can run ok stuff like MHW, Wartunder, etc. I looked into cases and I really love the small size of the Node 202 but am a bit concerned at lack of usb ports as in the Motherboard it says it has 2 usb ports, my current one has 10. An mitx would be super nice because of the size as it would be basically the same as my current one if not smaller

 

[Aeacus]

The largest reason for trying to upgrade this one is sentimental value, first computer that I got and have just been slowly chipping away at parts for a few years as its not a dedicated game pc.

My 1st PC was IBM AT, ~30 years ago. So... no point to hold on it, since it is long obsolete.

PCs aren't same as cars. While you could keep your 1st car for your entire life, servicing it, keep it running; same can't be done with PCs. At one point, electronics will fail (e.g capacitors age and die) and since no-one isn't making any "spare parts" for ancient PC, you can't service it either and keep it running for as long as you live.

My current PC is ~11th PC or so (that is, if i only count generations. But if i count actual PCs, then this number is far greater, 20+ or so. Because at one point, i was running several PCs at once. E.g two Intel 386 and one Intel 486 PCs.).

but am a bit concerned at lack of usb ports as in the Motherboard it says it has 2 usb ports, my current one has 10

If you're talking about the Asus mini-ITX i put in to my example build, then i count 8 USB ports. 4 at the back I/O, and 4 internal,
specs: https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-h610i-plus-d4-csm/techspec/

 

[computerisslow]

My 1st PC was IBM AT, ~30 years ago. So... no point to hold on it, since it is long obsolete.

PCs aren't same as cars. While you could keep your 1st car for your entire life, servicing it, keep it running; same can't be done with PCs. At one point, electronics will fail (e.g capacitors age and die) and since no-one isn't making any "spare parts" for ancient PC, you can't service it either and keep it running for as long as you live.

My current PC is ~11th PC or so (that is, if i only count generations. But if i count actual PCs, then this number is far greater, 20+ or so. Because at one point, i was running several PCs at once. E.g two Intel 386 and one Intel 486 PCs.).



If you're talking about the Asus mini-ITX i put in to my example build, then i count 8 USB ports. 4 at the back I/O, and 4 internal,
specs: https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-h610i-plus-d4-csm/techspec/

I completely get the need to upgrade from my first one, especially since its like 12 years old or something like that. it will likely become a second pc meant for school and stuff that ill keep around. As for the Motherboard I feel really stupid because I honestly skimmed over the usb ports on that but for some reason with the case usb ports the amount caught my eye, that's on me being in too much of a rush. Thank you again

 

[Karadjgne]

My first pc was a Commodore Vic20 with the 5K ram upgrade in 1980. One of the First commercially available pc's. It used a Casio/Toshiba portable cassette deck for a drive and Space Invaders was it's only program and took 15 minutes to load. If nobody bumped the table. What's seriously crazy is there are some who still have working models.

So nostalgia pieces, like 'my first pc', are well understood, but just like 'first cell phone' or 'first car', there comes a time when 'second' has its time. And it is time.

First: Aesthetics. Pick your case, form factor, size, shape, style, color. If it's not pleasing to you to look at, deal with, desk or floor real-estate, fitment, feng-shui etc, you'll end up hating it, displeased by the whole experience and pleasure of owning and upgrading. You just won't be happy no matter what the performance.

Second: find what fits. What fits inside, what fits the budget, what fits the build time-line, what actually fits your needs. And not necessarily in that order.

Third. Do Not second guess. Throw the 'what ifs' out the window. There's 2 kinds of results. Reality and benchmarks. Humans have no ability to split a second, it's either longer than a second or shorter, but by how much is impossible to say. You couldn't see or tell the difference between 0.1 seconds and 0.6 seconds. That's reality. A computer generated benchmark can. So don't second guess based on benchmarks, you can't see any difference, but the budget will when wondering if a slightly bigger, better, faster component will be 'better'.