News Linux Finally Hits 3% of Desktop PC Share After 30 Years

[bit_user]

Steam's July OS usage stats:

• Windows 96.21%
• Linux 1.96%
• Mac 1.84%

But, if you run Steam under WINE, does it report as Linux or Windows? If it reports as Windows, then I think the Linux number could be greatly under-reported, since I think a lot of Linux gamers prefer to play the Windows version under WINE.

I think Valve wouldn't want it to appear as Linux, because you're playing the Windows versions of the games. And, I think the whole point of the survey is to take game publishers about the market of gamers, so they can better target development resources.

So, if you're playing the Windows game versions, then it shouldn't matter whether the OS is Linux/WINE or MacOS/Rosetta2, it should still show up as Windows. It's only if you're running Steam natively under Linux or MacOS that those probably get reported.

 

[Dr3ams]

But, if you run Steam under WINE, does it report as Linux or Windows?

Last time Steam surveyed my machine wasn't when I was playing a game.

 

[TerryLaze]

Last time Steam surveyed my machine wasn't when I was playing a game.

What does that have to do with anything?
The way you run steam will also be the way that a game from steam will run.
Even if you are the exception and did a survey and then changed the way you run steam, it will still be an exception for anybody to do that.
Statistics aren't 100% guaranteed numbers, they are statistics.

 

[Dr3ams]

What does that have to do with anything?
The way you run steam will also be the way that a game from steam will run.
Even if you are the exception and did a survey and then changed the way you run steam, it will still be an exception for anybody to do that.
Statistics aren't 100% guaranteed numbers, they are statistics.

Calm down. Not sure what you are getting at. My reply was to whether steam knows you are playing a game in Wine or not. Steam surveys the operating system installed, not if you are playing in a virtual machine or not. So, the statistics I posted earlier are PCs surveyed for what OS is running the machine, this is what Steam is looking at...

...not how the game is played.

 

[bit_user]

Steam surveys the operating system installed, not if you are playing in a virtual machine or not.

Unless it's a survey you filled out by hand, it would look at how Steam is being run. If you're running the Windows version of Steam inside of WINE, I'd bet it will report the system as Windows.

Again, the reason they would do that is because if you're playing Windows games in Linux, then it's in Valve's interest to tell publishers what the market is for Windows games. A publisher wouldn't care that you're running Linux, as long as you're buying and playing the Windows version of their game.

 

[TerryLaze]

Unless it's a survey you filled out by hand, it would look at how Steam is being run. If you're running the Windows version of Steam inside of WINE, I'd bet it will report the system as Windows.

Wine
Is
Not an
Emulator

You don't run steam inside of wine you run steam on linux and it uses wine to run the windows executables.
If the survey checks what version of the exe you are running then it would count wine as windows, if the survey checks what OS you are running it would count wine as linux (or whatever it is running on)

 

[Dr3ams]

"Instead of simulating internal Windows logic like a virtual machine or emulator, Wine translates Windows API calls into POSIX calls on-the-fly, eliminating the performance and memory penalties of other methods and allowing you to cleanly integrate Windows applications into your desktop."

quote from winehq.org

If you are using Wine and Steam is auto surveying your machine, there is no way it would see your PC's operating system as anything else other than Linux.

 

[bit_user]

Wine
Is
Not an
Emulator

You don't run steam inside of wine you run steam on linux and it uses wine to run the windows executables.

I don't really see the distinction you're trying to make. The point is that you're using the Windows version of Steam and therefore it should assume it's running on Windows. While I'm sure Valve could detect when it's running in/on/via WINE, it's not in their interest to do so, because what they really want to tell publishers is the demand for the Windows version of games. The actual underlying OS is kind of irrelevant.

"Instead of simulating internal Windows logic like a virtual machine or emulator, Wine translates Windows API calls into POSIX calls on-the-fly, eliminating the performance and memory penalties of other methods and allowing you to cleanly integrate Windows applications into your desktop."

quote from winehq.org

An ancient quote, yes. Windows has lots of API functions with no direct POSIX equivalent. Also, Windows has a different executable format and different library linkage and symbol resolution rules and scopes. There's really so much that's different between the platforms that WINE has to do really a lot of work, these days.

If you are using Wine and Steam is auto surveying your machine, there is no way it would see your PC's operating system as anything else other than Linux.

It's funny that you use the phrase "auto surveying", because if a program makes the standard Win API query to see what OS it's running on, WINE is going to report back some version of Windows. It would have to go out of its way to try and detect that it's running on Linux. I'm sure it's possible, but not something Windows programs would normally do.

 

[TJ Hooker]

I don't really see the distinction you're trying to make. The point is that you're using the Windows version of Steam and therefore it should assume it's running on Windows. While I'm sure Valve could detect when it's running in/on/via WINE, it's not in their interest to do so, because what they really want to tell publishers is the demand for the Windows version of games. The actual underlying OS is kind of irrelevant.

Even if you're using proton/WINE to run the actual games, the steam client itself is not run using proton/WINE. Or at least, not AFAIK, I'm pretty sure it's available as a native linux app (can be installed right from the Ubuntu repository, or downloaded from Steam as a .deb).

 

[bit_user]

Even if you're using proton/WINE to run the actual games, the steam client itself is not run using proton/WINE. Or at least, not AFAIK, I'm pretty sure it's available as a native linux app (can be installed right from the Ubuntu repository, or downloaded from Steam as a .deb).

Steam is available as a native Linux app. But, if you run that version, will it restrict you to purchasing & installing only native Linux games? That was my assumption.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Steam is available as a native Linux app. But, if you run that version, will it restrict you to purchasing & installing only native Linux games? That was my assumption.

Nope, running the native linux client does not limit you to running native linux games.

 

[TerryLaze]

I don't really see the distinction you're trying to make. The point is that you're using the Windows version of Steam and therefore it should assume it's running on Windows. While I'm sure Valve could detect when it's running in/on/via WINE, it's not in their interest to do so, because what they really want to tell publishers is the demand for the Windows version of games. The actual underlying OS is kind of irrelevant.

Running under an emulator would only possibly reveal the emulated OS, running under wine reveals both OSes.
Also valve made the steamdeck so it would be in their interest to make devs care more about how their games run on linux.

 

[bit_user]

Running under an emulator would only possibly reveal the emulated OS, running under wine reveals both OSes.

Yes, if you go out of your way to check whether it's running on Linux, it would. If you just make the Windows API query to check which Windows version it's running on, it'll report back whatever Windows version WINE is configured to indicate.

​

Getting the System Version - Win32 apps

The following example uses the Version API Helper functions to determine the version of the current operating system, if it is a Server or Client release, and then displays this information to the console.

learn.microsoft.com

​

​

There's nothing in the OSVERSIONINFOEXA struct for indicating that the program is running on Linux:

OSVERSIONINFOEXA (winnt.h) - Win32 apps

Contains operating system version information. The information includes major and minor version numbers, a build number, a platform identifier, and information about product suites and the latest Service Pack installed on the system. (ANSI)

learn.microsoft.com

 

[TerryLaze]

Yes, if you go out of your way to check whether it's running on Linux, it would. If you just make the Windows API query to check which Windows version it's running on, it'll report back whatever Windows version WINE is configured to indicate.

The windows API query would only be there if you go out of your way to install it in your linux distro, wine isn't a complete windows os.
Or if you think that wine supports it you should find a quote from wine that they actually have a translation for this api query and not a quote from MS.

Steam also has an in-build API and I don't know maybe it does have a query for windows version inside the steamAPI.

 

[bit_user]

The windows API query would only be there if you go out of your way to install it in your linux distro, wine isn't a complete windows os.

Without WINE, you cannot execute Windows executables on Linux!

Or if you think that wine supports it you should find a quote from wine that they actually have a translation for this api query and not a quote from MS.

The API has no way to return anything that's not Windows. So, no matter how WINE handles it, it can't return anything the application would understand as anything other than some version of Windows.

It's a pretty basic Win API function. If WINE wouldn't support it, then I'm sure all kinds of Windows programs would break.

Steam also has an in-build API and I don't know maybe it does have a query for windows version inside the steamAPI.

Steam certainly could. However, the way you'd implement "Am I running on Linux?" differs based on whether you're using WINE or not, because WINE remaps filesystem paths. It's by looking at special files that's most likely how a Windows program could tell it's running on WINE.

 

[sinewave242]

I was actually expecting more people to start using Linux because of Windows 8/10 and especially 11 being a bit hard to swallow not just due to privacy reasons, but mainly due to usability reasons. Seeing how W11 and 8/10 versions work may be good for games and games only. What I find most interesting though is how many people went MacOS. MacOS is nice and usable for everyday work. If I had to choose between Windoz and MacOS it would be an easy choice. However, I like the OS that behaves and works exactly how I tell it to, and I know how to do it. Therefore Linux is the best choice for me. It has been, for more than a decade. I have just upgraded from Debian 11 to 12 and all I expected is to be even better, and it is. It took me about half an hour, two CLI commands and 3 reboots.Don't be afraid to try Linux these days as it is so much easier to install and setup than it used to be. People keep parroting untrue statements, don't trust them. Cheers!

a little edit, or p.s.: I now saw people discussing Steam. Well, I'm not much of a gamer, but I play more games in Linux than I ever was years ago in Windows, because Playstation emulators like ePSXe and PCSX2 are so good and there are tons of games for them. If you pair them with Steam Linux can make an absolutely great gaming platform, too.

 

[USAFRet]

I was actually expecting more people to start using Linux because of Windows 8/10 and especially 11 being a bit hard to swallow not just due to privacy reasons, but mainly due to usability reasons. Seeing how W11 and 8/10 versions work may be good for games and games only. What I find most interesting though is how many people went MacOS. MacOS is nice and usable for everyday work. If I had to choose between Windoz and MacOS it would be an easy choice. However, I like the OS that behaves and works exactly how I tell it to, and I know how to do it. Therefore Linux is the best choice for me. It has been, for more than a decade. I have just upgraded from Debian 11 to 12 and all I expected is to be even better, and it is. It took me about half an hour, two CLI commands and 3 reboots.Don't be afraid to try Linux these days as it is so much easier to install and setup than it used to be. People keep parroting untrue statements, don't trust them. Cheers!

For "work", you use whatever your employer places on your desk.

Rarely do you have any sort of option.

For home use, the vast majority of people just use whatever comes on the new system they just bought. If it is Win 11, so be it.

 

[bit_user]

For "work", you use whatever your employer places on your desk.

I worked with a guy in the late 1990's, who setup his own Linux box for our small team of 4. The sysadmin knew about it, but would provide no support for it (that's fine; not needed) and the manager was okay with it. We got the software building on Linux and used it as the primary development & testing environment, even though the ultimate targets were Windows and MacOS (this was in the days of MacOS 7/8, so nothing like OS X).

Rarely do you have any sort of option.

I always install Cygwin/X on my Windows machines. These days, you can use WSL.

I'm not outright disagreeing with you, but just pointing out some exceptions in my personal experience.

 

[ezst036]

3% after THIRTY years??

At this rate, it will be 10% in 2120!!

Now it's 4%.

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

Less than one year. (9 months to be specific)

At that rate we will be at 10% by 2030.