Linux Needs to Master Hardware to Beat Windows

[Marcus Yam]

Today we have Keith Curtis joining us for a discussion on Linux. Curtis spent 11 years as a Software Design Engineer at Microsoft before examining Linux and the open source side of things, which resulted in a change of perspective and a published book.

Linux Needs to Master Hardware to Beat Windows : Read more

 

[nevertell]

What we really need is a law- if you produce hardware, both linux, macOS and windows must support it as long as it's meant to be installed in an x86 machine.

 

[kyeana]

What we really need is ATI linux drivers. If we could get that i would be very content.

 

[Tyellock]

i think this is a step forward for the linux community

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_under_Linux

its not perfect yet, but the exposure is starting

 

[False_Dmitry_II]

Heh, all the hardware in my FX-gateway gaming laptop works perfectly in linux (I dual boot it and Win7 Pro) Even the mute and volume controls work.

Intel's wireless drivers in linux are almost the only ones that just straight up work.

ATI drivers are getting better and better for the HD series of cards. They've introduced some kind of aspect that's open but I haven't looked into it really.

 

[kyeana]

[citation][nom]Tyellock[/nom]i think this is a step forward for the linux communityhttp://developer.valvesoftware.com [...] nder_Linuxits not perfect yet, but the exposure is starting[/citation]

Personally i think WINE is more of a step backwords then anything. It opens the door for all sorts of windows attacks/virus's on a linux machine, and just further encourages developers to make windows applications, instead of native linux ones.

I'm not denying that windows emulation can be useful, however, the ideal solution would be to have native linux programs.

 

[kyeana]

[citation][nom]False_Dmitry_II[/nom]ATI drivers are getting better and better for the HD series of cards. They've introduced some kind of aspect that's open but I haven't looked into it really.[/citation]

They may be getting better, but i have still been unable to get my desktop with 2 4850's running in arch linux. I have tried the open source radeon and radeonhd drivers with a million xorg.conf files, but to no avail (they are all super laggy, presumably because direct rendering isn't working). I'm down to the last string, hopping that enabling KMS will fix it.

 

[kyeana]

[citation][nom]excalibur1814[/nom]Ummm.."Linux Needs to Master Hardware to Beat Windows"Haven't we known that for years and years? Once Linux beats Windows we'll probably be back to square one. When everyone has Linux, 'who' is going to centrally provide security updates? Who's going to offer support when the mass cannot be bothered anymore as the tinkers have gone onto another OS as Linux would then be 'too commercial'.Ahh heck, let's just give away our free will and jump onto osx[/citation]

Linux isn't meant to be an OS for everyone, and it isn't meant to replace windows. It is simply meant to be open source, so that you can do whatever you want with it. Some people may like this and switch to linux, while some would prefer having centrally provided security updates.

The problem right now is that even if people like the open source philosophy, they still require windows (for things like exclusive software, and driver support like this article mentioned).

 

[Guest]

"Linux" doesn't need better hardware support, the damn vendors and hardware manufacturers need to open up their source code or write drivers for Linux. Also some distributions could include some more drivers but I'm happy with Ubuntu's driver setup.

 

[mlopinto2k1]

Mastering hardware is one way to put it. Adobe needs to make photoshop for Linux. There needs to be pressure support for Wacom tablets. Then i'll switch.

 

[thomasmc]

Dude you got a Dell.
You idiot.

 

[thomaslompton]

He makes it seems like Linux is almost to the point that it is good for general consumption. It may be great for programmers who can write whatever program they are missing, but for the average user, it is more difficult than it needs to be to install anything that isn't included in an Ubuntu community. No, hardware is just the beginning of Linuxs problems in gaining general consumer acceptance.

 

[jeffunit]

I have a epson perfection 3200 scanner. I paid about $500 for it. They don't have a windows 7 64 bit driver for it. Works fine on Linux.
For windows 7, I am now using a crappy old HP scanner which does have a driver.

My 10 and 12 year old HP printers still work fine, and have windows 7 64 bit drivers as well as Linux drivers.

So, I am not recommending anyone buy Epson hardware, and people buy HP printers and scanners.

It is not Linux's *fault* there is no driver for some specific piece of hardware, it is the manufacturer's fault. If your notebook's wireless doesn't work, buy an external wireless card that has Linux support.

 

[alextheblue]

"I had a Photodesk 7960 printer worked on Windows XP, but didn't work on Windows Server 2003 because the installation code crashed — which HP shouldn't be forced to bother with in the first place."
That's HP's fault for having a shitty installer. Which HP MUST bother with, because without it, your average person couldn't get the printer up and running. I think that is what a lot of Linux-go-mainstream proponents don't understand... Linux is not for the average PC user, unless you plan on putting out a free 1-800 tech line for every time a user can't figure out how to make their newest USB Widget work with their machine. A lot of users can barely operate Windows, and have lots of extra junk installed that they have no idea how it got there, because they just click YES OK GOGOGO buttons whenever they pop up while they're trying to get something to work.

 

[ta152h]

I've heard about how some form or another of Unix is going to take over the world for over 30 years. It's not. But, my guess is the chatter is going to continue for at least another 30 years.

Unix sucks. Linux is a form of Unix. If it hasn't gained popularity by now, what's going to change? Oh wait, Windows 7 is out, and it's good! If they would just start from a better foundation than a crappy OS conceived over 40 years ago, they might have a chance. But, they keep trying this old retread in this form and that, and then wonder why it fails every time.

But, again, there's less reason this year than last for people to move to Linux, and it didn't gain share last year, or the year before, etc... Linux isn't growing. There's no catalyst for growth, even Vista wasn't enough.

But, we'll keep hearing about it. Or the next version of Unix after Linus - and you know there will be. There's always plenty of lipstick to slap on this pig. And you'll always hear "But this is different from the other Unix varieties. It does this and that.". Sure as the Sun will come out tomorrow (except maybe in northern Alaska, still).

 

[kyeana]

[citation][nom]thomaslompton[/nom]He makes it seems like Linux is almost to the point that it is good for general consumption. It may be great for programmers who can write whatever program they are missing, but for the average user, it is more difficult than it needs to be to install anything that isn't included in an Ubuntu community. No, hardware is just the beginning of Linuxs problems in gaining general consumer acceptance.[/citation]

Personally, i find installing software on linux much easier then i do on windows. Being able to type in (arch) "pacman -S firefox" (or whatever program you want) in my mind is as simple as it gets. Given, there are some programs out there that may not be in the repositories. However, in those cases you can often find a .deb file (for debian based distros, such as ubuntu) which act the same as a .exe file in windows. If worst comes to worst, and you have to install something via the command line, i have yet to find something that didn't provide detailed instructions on how to go about it.

But regardless, this just further increases my previous point. Linux isn't about over throwing windows. It is a different way to think about an operating systems. You can have more control over your system, due to the very nature of open source. On the flip side you may end up with some things such as programs that do not work right or are slow on support. This will appeal to some people, while other will prefer the Windows way of doing things. To each their own.

 

[Regulas]

They also failed to mention MS continually works (legally and illegally) to make it hard or impossible for Linux to work with hardware.
For example, this is a quote from some smart Linux user complaining about ASUS laptops.

Quote:
...because Asus, in their "wisdom," use Microsoft's ASL compiler when preparing the BIOS. This is a PoS that doesn't quite comply with the ACPI specification everyone else, including the free OSen, uses and leaves you with a broken DSDT on anything other than Windows. You can, on any reasonable operating system, disassemble the DSDT and recompile it with Intel's compiler to give you a DSDT, loadable at boot-time (or, if you're feeling really brave, grafted into the BIOS image), that works. It's rather complicated as MS's little offering quietly accepts syntax that Intel's doesn't. I'm not sure if this is the case with the Eee range as I don't own one, but it's certainly the case with desktop boards. For example:
# acpidump -dt ./acpi.asl
acpidump: RSDT entry 3 (sig OEMB) is corrupt
Whoops. Looks like I'm SOL and JWF if I want to disassemble and try to fix this PoS with a corrupt root system description table. Let's try anyway:
# iasl ./acpi.asl
[...many errors]
./acpi.asl 5189: Scope Name (G0T3, Package (0x07)
Error 4094 - ^ syntax error
Maximum error count (200) exceeded
ASL Input: ./acpi.asl - 9627 lines, 331801 bytes, 1519 keywords
Compilation complete. 201 Errors, 2 Warnings, 0 Remarks, 9 Optimizations
Suffice to say that the corrupt table is probably the cause of most of these errors and, even if I were to go through the code and try to fix the syntax errors, I very much doubt it would compile with bits missing.
The results? See for yourself:
acpi0: <033109 on motherboard
acpi0: [ITHREAD]
acpi0: Power Button (fixed)
acpi0: reservation of fee00000, 1000 (3) failed
acpi0: reservation of ffb80000, 80000 (3) failed
acpi0: reservation of fec10000, 20 (3) failed
acpi0: reservation of 0, a0000 (3) failed
acpi0: reservation of 100000, cff00000 (3) failed
ACPI HPET table warning: Sequence is non-zero (2)
Oh, and just in case anyone thinks I'm blowing smoke about them using MS's asl compiler, here's the XSDT:
XSDT: Length=76, Revision=1, Checksum=31,
OEMID=033109, OEM Table ID=OEMXSDT, OEM Revision=0x20090331,
Creator ID=MSFT, Creator Revision=0x97
Entries={ 0xcffb0290, 0xcffb0390, 0xcffb0400, 0xcffbe040, 0xcffb94e0 }
Creator ID MSFT. Says it all.
This is an Asus M3A78 Pro. So, Asus, either you're conspiring with MS to shut out alternative OSen or you're incompetent. Which one is it?"

 

[randomizer]

To the Windows fanboys who can't use Linux because they try to use it like Windows: Ask any average user how easy Windows is to use when they stumble across a problem. If I charged friends a typical rate that a "real" tech support guy did whenever they had a problem, I'd be loaded, and they'd be living in a slum. Windows is not easier than Linux (or to be more specific, certain distributions of Linux, as some are difficult by design), it's just different.

 

[Shadow703793]

Imo, I'd rather let Linux have less market share so we Linux users aren't a big Bulls Eye on a crackers target. After all, crackers want to get the masses due to time,money,etc.

 

[sorin7486]

Linux has probably mastered the hardware better than anyone could expect given that it doesn't get the support of most hardware vendors. But I think that will change with time as most things did.

I for one have been very lucky when it comes to hardware support. Haven't had a problem in about 3 years or even more. I know it's not the same for everybody but for me it's been working great. A fresh ubuntu install works perfectly out of the box. On the other hand it took me a couple of hours to get my laptops graphics working properly on Windows 7. I guess it was just a reminder of how important the vendor support really is.

 

[Guest]

This is nuts. Yeah, hardware's important. However, I use OpenOffice as my primary suite. I installed Ubuntu, and went slack-jawed when it came time to install OpenOffice. Holy crap! Why can't I just install the thing with one click?!? Why are there all these competing interfaces? Why can't the entire Linux community just frickin' get together behind a *SINGLE* kernel and interface? Okay maybe two? Rather than all these different distros? Man, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE LINUX COMMUNITY?!? Why can't everyone doing all this great development simply unify...?!?

 

[randomizer]

[citation][nom]rex rectums[/nom]Why can't the entire Linux community just frickin' get together behind a *SINGLE* kernel and interface? Okay maybe two? Rather than all these different distros? Man, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE LINUX COMMUNITY?!? Why can't everyone doing all this great development simply unify...?!?[/citation]
The problem is not with the community, the problem is with you. You don't understand the concept of choice or freedom, because you're used to Windows where the choice has been made for you. One or two distros makes Linux no different to Windows as far as philosophy goes, except that it doesn't damage your wallet.

 

[twu]

[citation][nom]rex rectums[/nom] Holy crap! Why can't I just install the thing with one click?!? Why are there all these competing interfaces? Why can't the entire Linux community just frickin' get together behind a *SINGLE* kernel and interface? Okay maybe two? Rather than all these different distros? Man, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE LINUX COMMUNITY?!? Why can't everyone doing all this great development simply unify...?!?[/citation]

It because you don't know the concept and the flexibility. Nothing wrong with the Linux community, the problem is on those people who like you that don't know how to use it.

 

[andrewcutter]

well i think choice is its biggest flaw too. Choice is good but there is a big advantage in standardization too. I think that if linux standardized then companies like adobe might make softwares. currently any major production software supports one linux os prob red hat. others have to be tweaked to run. They probably dont want to support the hundreds of os falvers and tens of packagers. Since there is no support officially from the company this is not good. At least if the package system can be standardized and all the distros agree to a common time frame to release all their oses it would be a step in the right direction. The standard packager would make life easier for companies to invest in linux too. when photoshop comes out i think a lot of ppl will shift. For pros gimp doesn't cut it though it does for us.

 

[ravewulf]

Not to mention OpenGL needs to get their act together as DirectX is murdering it

And other issues...