DefectedSOul

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ive been kicking the idea around about upgrading from 32gb of ram to 64gb of ram
i currently have Corsair Vengeance RBG PRO DDR4 16GB(2x8GB) 3200MHz CL16 (CMW16GX4M2C3200C16) x2 making up 32GB

i found "G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4600 (PC4 36800) Desktop Memory Model F4-4600C19D-32GTZR" (im not sure if the 4600 is MHz or MT/s, seeing the MT/s is kind of new to me)
im mainly looking for ram that would be an upgrade in speed aswell as size that would work best for my build

full system specs
  • Processor - AMD Ryzen9 5900x
  • Cooler - CORSAIR iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX
  • Graphics Card - AMD PowerColor RX 6950XT Red Devil
  • RAM - 32GB Vengeance RGB pro @3200 (CMW16GX4M2C3200C16)x2
  • Power Supply - 1000watt EVGA SuperNOVA G5
  • Motherboard - MSI MPG X570S CARBON MAX WIFI
would like to stick with corsair or g.skill ram with rgb option

v From my MOBOs spec sheet under memory v
  • 4x DDR4 memory slots, support up to 128GB
  • Supports 1866/ 2133/ 2400/ 2667/ 2800/ 2933/ 3000/ 3066/ 3200 MHz by JEDEC1
  • Max frequency by A-XMP OC mode:
    • For Ryzen™ 5000 G-Series & 4000 G-Series processors
      • 1DPC 1R Max speed up to 5300 MHz
      • 1DPC 2R Max speed up to 4266 MHz
      • 2DPC 1R Max speed up to 4400 MHz
      • 2DPC 2R Max speed up to 3600 MHz
    • For Ryzen™ 5000 Series & 3000 Series processors
      • 1DPC 1R Max speed up to 5100 MHz
      • 1DPC 2R Max speed up to 4000 MHz
      • 2DPC 1R Max speed up to 4000 MHz
      • 2DPC 2R Max speed up to 3600 MHz
  • Supports Dual-Channel mode
  • Supports non-ECC, un-buffered memory
 
Solution
ALL DDR memory is measured in MT/s, which is Megatransfers per second. Since modern memory is DDR, double data rate, Mhz was no longer an accurate method of measurement for DDR SDRAM unlike it was for standard SDRAM.

For your CPU, and all Ryzen 5000 series CPUs, there is little point in going beyond 3600MT/s because once you do there is an infinity fabric penalty to be paid once you lose the 1:1 ratio which makes it lose all value in most cases unless you can get a VERY high speed kit to work, which is both very expensive and very unlikely for most board, memory kit, CPU combos. 3600MT/s is the sweet spot for Zen 3 platforms. Some will tell you to get a four rank configuration using four DIMMs, but the problem with that is that hardly...
ALL DDR memory is measured in MT/s, which is Megatransfers per second. Since modern memory is DDR, double data rate, Mhz was no longer an accurate method of measurement for DDR SDRAM unlike it was for standard SDRAM.

For your CPU, and all Ryzen 5000 series CPUs, there is little point in going beyond 3600MT/s because once you do there is an infinity fabric penalty to be paid once you lose the 1:1 ratio which makes it lose all value in most cases unless you can get a VERY high speed kit to work, which is both very expensive and very unlikely for most board, memory kit, CPU combos. 3600MT/s is the sweet spot for Zen 3 platforms. Some will tell you to get a four rank configuration using four DIMMs, but the problem with that is that hardly any Ryzen systems, at all, will support the full high speed memory kits with all four DIMM locations populated. IMO you are much better off going with two 3600MT/s low latency DIMMs and IF you can them with two ranks per DIMM you can still meet that recommendation but in reality it isn't all THAT important. We're talking very small percentages of improvement.

And you SURE as heck don't want to buy two individual 32GB DIMMs, or two separate 2 x32GB kits. You want to buy ALL of the memory in ONE SINGLE KIT otherwise you are very much rolling the dice on the idea that they will play nice together which MUCH of the time these days with high speed kits they will not. Especially since many of these kits aren't even made up of the same composition from one production run to the next. Many if not all of these manufacturers may simply use whatever they have on hand that will still meet the requirements for overall throughput and latency even if it means using entirely different ICs (Memory chips), or totally different rank and row configurations.

There is a much more detailed explanation here: https://www.tomshardware.com/features/ryzen-5000-ram-guide as well as many other places across the internet.

And my basic memory guide here: https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq...y-ram-and-xmp-profile-configurations.3398926/

Which, you can still GREATLY improve your performance IF you get a 3600MT/s kit with a very low latency. But they are expensive.

How much are you willing to pay to gain maybe 10% performance over what you have now?

And when it comes to the capacity, are you sure you even have a NEED for more memory? Because for 95% of users out there, 32GB is more than they will ever use unless you are also running substantial VMs, or very high end applications, or some combination of all those things plus very memory greedy games with a ton of mods and overlays installed AND/OR are also needing additional memory for recording operations while doing any or all of these things. Do you KNOW you are in need of more memory or does it just seem like a good idea because it's commonly thought that more is better?

The fact is, even not counting the infinity fabric penalty, you wouldn't gain much by going with a 4600MT/s CL19 memory kit over your 3200MT/s CL16 kit, Your kit has a true latency of 10ns. The kit you are looking at would have a true latency of 8.26, but that is ONLY IF you didn't have a latency penalty to pay because of exceeding the 1:1 threshold of the infinity fabric. By the time you factor that in you are probably looking at more like an 11ns true latency and it simply would be slower than what you have now when all is said and done.

Now, if you could find a 3600MT/S CL14 kit, you'd have an 8.75ns true latency and you would not have a penalty to pay, so it would definitely FEEL much snappier in memory intensive operations but even so, the overall performance gains probably wouldn't be all that enormous for the cost, IF you could even find them anymore which is proving to be nearly impossible if you want to buy them new because most manufacturers have moved the majority of new production to DDR5 and whatever DDR4 they are still manufacturing are the mainstream kits that will appeal to the largest number of users. Plus you have to also factor in that all of the Ryzen platforms are very picky about what memory kits it wants to play nice with and mostly that's on a per-motherboard-model basis for the most part, with the specific CPU model SOMETIMES also factoring in. Mostly though, it's the board.

And I'm not seeing ANY 3200MT/s CL14 2 x32GB kits that show as compatible for your motherboard, not even from G.Skill, so while there are a couple of kits still available that fit that description they are like 200 bucks for the kit AND you would be rolling the dice that they will play nice with your configuration. And it probably would because basically all of the 3000MT/S and 3200MT/s CL14 kits are Samsung B-die IC kits, and those generally almost always work with Ryzen platforms but again, it's not cheap, and there is some risk involved.
 
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Solution

DefectedSOul

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Mar 12, 2014
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ALL DDR memory is measured in MT/s, which is Megatransfers per second. Since modern memory is DDR, double data rate, Mhz was no longer an accurate method of measurement for DDR SDRAM unlike it was for standard SDRAM.

For your CPU, and all Ryzen 5000 series CPUs, there is little point in going beyond 3600MT/s because once you do there is an infinity fabric penalty to be paid once you lose the 1:1 ratio which makes it lose all value in most cases unless you can get a VERY high speed kit to work, which is both very expensive and very unlikely for most board, memory kit, CPU combos. 3600MT/s is the sweet spot for Zen 3 platforms. Some will tell you to get a four rank configuration using four DIMMs, but the problem with that is that hardly any Ryzen systems, at all, will support the full high speed memory kits with all four DIMM locations populated. IMO you are much better off going with two 3600MT/s low latency DIMMs and IF you can them with two ranks per DIMM you can still meet that recommendation but in reality it isn't all THAT important. We're talking very small percentages of improvement.

And you SURE as heck don't want to buy two individual 32GB DIMMs, or two separate 2 x32GB kits. You want to buy ALL of the memory in ONE SINGLE KIT otherwise you are very much rolling the dice on the idea that they will play nice together which MUCH of the time these days with high speed kits they will not. Especially since many of these kits aren't even made up of the same composition from one production run to the next. Many if not all of these manufacturers may simply use whatever they have on hand that will still meet the requirements for overall throughput and latency even if it means using entirely different ICs (Memory chips), or totally different rank and row configurations.

There is a much more detailed explanation here: https://www.tomshardware.com/features/ryzen-5000-ram-guide as well as many other places across the internet.

And my basic memory guide here: https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq...y-ram-and-xmp-profile-configurations.3398926/

Which, you can still GREATLY improve your performance IF you get a 3600MT/s kit with a very low latency. But they are expensive.

How much are you willing to pay to gain maybe 10% performance over what you have now?

And when it comes to the capacity, are you sure you even have a NEED for more memory? Because for 95% of users out there, 32GB is more than they will ever use unless you are also running substantial VMs, or very high end applications, or some combination of all those things plus very memory greedy games with a ton of mods and overlays installed AND/OR are also needing additional memory for recording operations while doing any or all of these things. Do you KNOW you are in need of more memory or does it just seem like a good idea because it's commonly thought that more is better?

The fact is, even not counting the infinity fabric penalty, you wouldn't gain much by going with a 4600MT/s CL19 memory kit over your 3200MT/s CL16 kit, Your kit has a true latency of 10ns. The kit you are looking at would have a true latency of 8.26, but that is ONLY IF you didn't have a latency penalty to pay because of exceeding the 1:1 threshold of the infinity fabric. By the time you factor that in you are probably looking at more like an 11ns true latency and it simply would be slower than what you have now when all is said and done.

Now, if you could find a 3600MT/S CL14 kit, you'd have an 8.75ns true latency and you would not have a penalty to pay, so it would definitely FEEL much snappier in memory intensive operations but even so, the overall performance gains probably wouldn't be all that enormous for the cost, IF you could even find them anymore which is proving to be nearly impossible if you want to buy them new because most manufacturers have moved the majority of new production to DDR5 and whatever DDR4 they are still manufacturing are the mainstream kits that will appeal to the largest number of users. Plus you have to also factor in that all of the Ryzen platforms are very picky about what memory kits it wants to play nice with and mostly that's on a per-motherboard-model basis for the most part, with the specific CPU model SOMETIMES also factoring in. Mostly though, it's the board.

And I'm not seeing ANY 3200MT/s CL14 2 x32GB kits that show as compatible for your motherboard, not even from G.Skill, so while there are a couple of kits still available that fit that description they are like 200 bucks for the kit AND you would be rolling the dice that they will play nice with your configuration. And it probably would because basically all of the 3000MT/S and 3200MT/s CL14 kits are Samsung B-die IC kits, and those generally almost always work with Ryzen platforms but again, it's not cheap, and there is some risk involved.
thank you all of that has been very helpful! :) i am planing on moving to a Linux OS fulltime and run a windows vm in the future at some point. main reason ive been looking into upgrading my ram is from games hogging so much but maybe it would be better to just hold off and wait til i absolutely have to or i do a whole new build and on DDR5
 
Yeah, 32GB is far more than any game I know of can even use, so unless you plan to run a LOT of things simultaneously while gaming, and I mean a LOT, or some very high end memory intensive processes alongside your game engine, it would make a lot of sense to first look at how much RAM you are actually using while running your most memory intensive game (And whatever you have running with it) to see if you are even going to benefit from adding memory. And as far as VMs go, most people simply don't keep their VMs running WHILE they are gaming, so even for VMs, unless you are planning to run MANY of them simultaneously, it still probably doesn't make sense. With 32GB, any upgrade from there in capacity is something that you really want to verify is going to for sure have a benefit before you do it otherwise you're just throwing money away and later you'll likely be like "well dammit". LOL.

And if you are thinking you might move to a newer platform sometime in the near future, even more reason not to throw additional money at this one.
 

DefectedSOul

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Yeah, 32GB is far more than any game I know of can even use, so unless you plan to run a LOT of things simultaneously while gaming, and I mean a LOT, or some very high end memory intensive processes alongside your game engine, it would make a lot of sense to first look at how much RAM you are actually using while running your most memory intensive game (And whatever you have running with it) to see if you are even going to benefit from adding memory. And as far as VMs go, most people simply don't keep their VMs running WHILE they are gaming, so even for VMs, unless you are planning to run MANY of them simultaneously, it still probably doesn't make sense. With 32GB, any upgrade from there in capacity is something that you really want to verify is going to for sure have a benefit before you do it otherwise you're just throwing money away and later you'll likely be like "well dammit". LOL.

And if you are thinking you might move to a newer platform sometime in the near future, even more reason not to throw additional money at this one.
i am guilty of having alot more tabs open in firefox than probably necessary lol so my ram usage outside of a game is around 10 or 12gb with firefox and other programs running in the background :ROFLMAO: maybe i need to be more mindful of it lol
friend of mine just sent me a link to a kit of corsair dominator platinum 4x16 3600 cl16 (CMT64GX4M4K3600C16) thoughts on those?
 
Link? Cost?

Honestly, I think you'll have a difficult time getting four 3600MT/s DIMMs to run at full speed on that platform but MAYBE. It depends on the configuration of the memory because it shows that your board supports up to 3600MT/s when all four DIMMs are populated IF it is a 2 row, 2 DIMMs per channel configuration and up to 4000/MT/s if it is 2 DIMMs per channel but single row DIMMs. But again, anything over 3600MT/s is almost always going to bump you to 2:1 latency rather than 1:1, so unless you are running two VERY fast DIMMs, it's not worth going over 3600MT/s.
 
The Corsair memory finder utility says that kit is not compatible with your motherboard, and understandably so, since it has timings of 15-15-15 and basically no Ryzen motherboards like memory kits with odd numbered CL timings. For Ryzen platforms, as a baseline of what generally works on Ryzen, before verifying compatibility (Which you can only really do for the most part with Corsair, G.Skill and Crucial because they offer utilities that allow you verify compatibility by motherboard model and nobody else really does), you want to see CL timings that are even. CL14, CL16, CL18, etc.

Other kits CAN work, but often they won't, and when they will it usually requires tweaking many of the configuration settings because practically all odd numbered CL memory kits were actually designed specifically for Intel platforms, mostly. Again, you can run kits not specifically intended for Ryzen platforms SOMETIMES, but it usually requires a moderate amount of extra work and sometimes it simply will not work without problems.
 

DefectedSOul

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That's a crazy price too. This would be a MUCH better option if you want to spend that kind of money.

This kit is specifically designed for Ryzen platforms, hence the "Neos" designation.

PCPartPicker Part List

Memory: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($196.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $196.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-12-25 00:32 EST-0500
ohh okay! thank you for all your help! :)