Looking for monitor advice

[kjp00]

Hi, all

I wonder if anyone might advise me on what kind of monitor is best for my needs.

I'll use it for three things: work (nothing with demanding graphical requirements), gaming, and watching movies. I already have a four-year-old 1080p 24-inch Samsung which I'll use as a second display.

Initially I was thinking of going for a 27 inch 1440p screen - found a good one for £350. My new rig can handle that resolution for gaming.

Thing is, I watch a lot of videos (youtube, etc.) that might be 720p - or even less. I worry that 1440p would make some of these look awful. Work-wise, the dual monitor set-up would mean I have plenty of real estate either way.

I wonder then, if I should go for much more cost-effective 1080p, either 27 or 24 inch? And if so, could someone recommend one in the £100-200 price-range? What I'm looking for is the best picture quality in that price range. It should also be good for gaming, but I'd sacrifice hardcore response time for a more vibrant picture.

 

[LilTwist]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236293
the monitor on the link above is a 27in 144 refresh rate 2ms responce time and it is Nvidia 3d vision 2 ready if you ever want to watch movies or play games in full 3d but for the 3d you have to have a Nvidia card that supports it and the Nvidia 3d vision 2 kit that comes with a pair of wireless glasses and a IR receiver for the glasses but even without the 3d the monitor is really good for gaming do to the 144 refresh rate and the 2ms responce time also it is 1920x1080

 

[kjp00]

Thanks - I found it at £310 in the UK, which is only slightly cheaper than a 1440p monitor which multiple reviews assure me is perfectly good for gaming.

What would you choose out of a 1440p at refresh rate of 60Hz vs a 1080p at 144 Hz? Which, in your opinion, gives a better overall performance for non-hardcore gamers?

 

[LilTwist]

Well if you don't have or ever have seen a monitor with 144 refresh rate I could give you an idea how its like...
OK take your browser window and make it small like 1/6th the size of your screen now drag it back and forth slightly fast now do you notice how the window looks kinda like a bunch of boxes trailing behind the window you are dragging and disappears quickly? Now if you had a 144 refresh rate monitor it won't do that it will be completely smooth with no trailing boxes the same thing goes for gaming as well 60-75 refresh rate monitors cause distortion and motion blur which is not apealling in my opinion for gaming especially for first person shooters and racing games with 144 refresh rate you will see no motion blur or distortion it just make for a all around better gaming monitor and the 2ms responds and 3d ready is a huge bonus

 

[LilTwist]

1440p=clearer graphics.......120/144 refresh rate=better overall gameplay in my opinion no distortion no motion blur

 

[LilTwist]

Now if you are playing a mmorpg then the higher rez monitor will be better but if you are into first person shooters and racing then you will benefit from a higher refresh rate

 

[kjp00]

I don't play MMORPGs, really: I like single-player RPGs, looking forward to GTA 5 and Witcher 3 on PC - that kind of thing.

Maybe the sweet spot, then, would then be a 24 inch (for graphics clarity because less stretched screen) with 144 refresh rate? I can get this for £220...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/aoc-g2460pqu-144-hz-gaming-monitor,3827.html What do you think?

Also, why do you say 3d ready is a huge bonus? I don't really feel the need to use 3D with anything in the market at the moment. Is there likely to be something coming out soon that will be a gamechanger?

 

[LilTwist]

I haven't done the 3d thing yet but within a couple months I am getting the kit to do so I have read that it completely changes the way you game it makes games more immersive makes you feel more one with the game and also makes old games you have played completely new again also 3d movies lol who doesn't like 3d movies. Now some games don't support the 3d so you would have to download free 3rd party software that enables a better experience with games that were otherwise not capable for 3d and also google your games 3d rating if its low or not compatable with 3d that's where the 3rd party software comes in to help make better adjustments to depth and popouts

 

[LilTwist]

For 120$ cheaper just to sacrifice 3 inches is OK in my book if you get I I really hope you enjoy it

 

[kjp00]

Thanks for your help!

 

[rower30]

...Now if you had a 144 refresh rate monitor it won't do that it will be completely smooth...
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No, not so true. Unless your video card can send frame data to the monitor synchronized to the rate, you will see screen tearing. In a non dynamic refresh rate monitor, frames that are not locked to the monitor refresh rate will cause this image tearing.
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Ghosting is caused by several things and NOT just a refresh rate speed will fix them and all four have different issues to resolve;
Ghosting
Coronas / Inverse Ghosting
Motion Blur
PWM Artifacts
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The main offender is back light technology. Please go HERE- http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/lcd-motion-artifacts/
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and READ;
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"Nearly all LCD motion artifacts can be reduced or eliminated by scanning backlights and newer strobe backlight technologies including the popular LightBoost tweak used by high-end computer enthusiasts. Such displays successfully bypass pixel persistence by turning off the backlight during LCD pixel transitions, and precisely strobing the whole backlight only on fully-refreshed frames (see high-speed video). These displays produces CRT motion quality, with all perceptible motion blur completely eliminated."
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Nowhere in there is high refresh fixes blur in and of itself. Some of these methods will drop image brightness to address blur.
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So make sure you consider how much you use the LCD and how. Is the monitor specifically designed to enhance motion blur and not just high refresh rate alone, which is a gimmick to those uninformed to motion blur, and what causes it.
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Monitor set-up is critical to good performance. LCD set-up is NOT like a CRT where you just up the refresh rate to 85 Hz or so and away you go.
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Even with a good non dynamic refresh rate monitors LCD, you should first match the FPS to be a nice solid Vsync MIN / MAX / AVG that are essentially all the same as the monitors refresh frequency to eliminate most image tearing. A too high refresh rate, and/or a too big of screen with a too weak graphics card can make this impossible. SLOWING DOWN the refresh can IMPROVE the apparent image quality.
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EXAMPLE, I use a 60 Hz monitor and my AMD 6870 at 1920 x 1080P has enough power to lock into the monitor's refresh rate with the SAME 60 FPS with Vsyn enabled. So there is little to no image tearing as the two are always synchronized.
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Your eye will sense inconsistent FPS and tearing as MUCH more aggravating than minor image blur. True, the faster you can go (generally above 60 FPS) the less the low FPS spots will impact quality. BUT, this is as much your graphics card as the monitor, BOTH.

Study the reviews on graphics cards AND the size / resolution you will use and THEN see what minimum FPS are held. Me? I'd set the VSync to THAT frequency and HOLD the FPS at a single solid FPS rate with no image tearing. THEN the back light technology does it's magic for motion blur.
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Many will disagree with setting the refresh rate on your monitor to MATCH the ability of your graphics card to push frames. But, that's not how an LCD monitor works. Every frame sent by the graphics card is NOT used if they go above the LCD monitors refresh rate and can cause image tearing. Likewise if the FPS falls BELOW the refresh rate, you will eventually get image tearing, too. This happens because a non VSync monitor / GPU fall out of timing alignment and the monitor can get a "new" image before the previous on is completed, and this starts a new image and an older image at the same time (image tearing).
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For example, if your card can push 80 FPS minimum at the screen resolution and quality setting (high, very high, ETC) you like, I'd set the monitor to 80 Hz refresh rate so it is a time aligned STEADY image with no tearing. Faster resolution may cause it to be worse.
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So MATCH the capabilities up before you get a new monitor, or know a new card is in store, too!
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My lowly D590 SAMSUNG LCD work VERY well with a locked in 60 FPS VSynced to the monitors 609 Hz refresh rate. Going to 72 Hz makes it WORSE with my AMD6870 card. So I stop at 60 Hz for the best picture.
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If you do movies AND games, set the refresh to multiples of 24 Hz (same as movies) that your card can manage. So figure 72 Hz, 86 ETC as the lowest FPM you want to hit. I don't do movies, so the 60 Hz limitation I have isn't an issue. I optimized for games.
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Some of the new dynamic refresh rate monitors will VSync below a set FPS to avoid the visible artifacts, and then turn VSync OFF when the FPS is fast enough to be undetectable. BOTH situations make sure the timing is always matched between the monitor and GPU card.

Long winded response, but it isn't so easy as just getting to 144 Hz. DO NOT let that fool you! time aligned image refresh is MORE important than speed alone. And, image blur is VERY much effected by technology that isn't tied to just the refresh rate.

 

[kjp00]

Thanks rower. I've been doing a bit more research and apparently lots and lots of people LOVE this - 1440p and overclockable refresh rate.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161476107893

Any thoughts? I've got a 970 strix, so 1440p should be fine...

 

[rower30]

You won't really use the refresh rate ABOVE where you video card's limit is reached in actual games for best performance (minimum screen tearing).

So if your video card can hit say 80 FPS, I'd set your monitor there and turn on VSync and triple buffering and see what you think. A few clicks and you can turn it off. Remember, though, you need to UNDER CLOCK your monitor to ADD a refresh that matches your cards min FPS to do this. Get help if you're unfamiliar with adding a monitor refresh rate.

This procedure will align your video card and monitor and simulate dynamic refresh in the time alignment domain.

Remember, your LCD monitor acts synchronous (steady as we go at the refresh setting) and your video card is asynchronous (FPS are all over the place based on the games 3D demands). The two need to be "matched". This is different than CRT's that didn't have this issue. Any video card would “work”. Not so on LCD's unless you take steps to synchronize them properly.

AMD and NVIDIA make BOTH asynchronous technology where FPS are variable but the monitors refreshbecomes variable and FPS are locked together in a varying dance with the game.

Locking your video card's "worst" synchronous monitor's FPS to your monitor refresh by enabling ASync and triple buffering makes them both synchronous. Another way to do a similar thing. The end result of both is a much smoother FPS with few to no screen tearing.

So with a standard synchronous LCD, you can pretty much remove screen tearing if you understand how LCD's work. True, a dynamic method gets the "best" your card can do...but it is expensive to do. You need to buy a vidoe card and monitor that are "matched" to one of two technology choices.

I have no problem with a sunchronous 120 / 144 Hz LCD, but you can't really use that full FPS rate and eliminate screen tearing, which to me is WAY more an issue than blurring. My mind see's input lag, screen tearing, and video blur in that order of aggravation.

VSync is blamed for input lag, but I don't feel it with MY particular monitor (17.5 ms total input lag). This depends on you monitor and video card drivers, not just VSync. I'm running 60 FPS with VSync WITh triple buffering and feel little lag in FarCry3 that get me killed.

Triple buffering is a way to help make sure only a FULL rendered frame gets to the monitor. Turn this on and off and see how your video card behaves. I feel no negative, so I leave it on.

On you new monitor, make sure that the TOTAL LCD input latency is less than 20 ms and NOT just the pixel response time. The pixel calculation overhead ADDS to pixel response gray-to-gray for an overall perceived, "picture moves when I tell it to" feel. You don't get to see one response by itself. So pixel response by itself is a gimmick.

All this stuff can be changed to suit, but I've found most people seem to have an aversion to slow things down to make it much better, and that's a shame as they enjoy a "number" but have a less than ideal “experience”. Isn't this what your new monitor is for? A better experience?

Your 970 is a great card, so it should reach a high min FPS level and locking into that steady FPS will reward you with a smooth nice experience.

Motion blur is NOT solved by simple 120/144 refresh rate but require special back light technology to be truly effective and, it works at even lower refresh rates, such as 60 Hz.Review your choice for motion blur AND high refresh reate, both.

Remember too, high refresh rates hurt color vibrancy on most monitors at the expense of sounding "better". Your eye can't discern FPS much over ~ 65 FPS, so a monitor set-up right at 80 FPS will look, better than a wild west mess of a synchronous monitor being fed by an asynchronous video card.

I'm not saying to not get a high refresh capable monitor, but I am saying it will work better if you set your video card to be synchronous with the monitor. The faster your video card's min stable FPS the better...in theory. For 3D, you need a HIGH FPS to work, and this forces screen tearing by default.

I've shown the results in a previous note, so the numbers don't lie. I enjoy a rock stead 60 FPS on most current game engines. Maybe not Assassins Creed UNITY unless I back off the quality level! Common sense is still required.

But there is where DYNAMIC refresh (asynchronous system) come into play, It does all this for you, but at a price.