Question Looking to upgrade GPU but have concerns about power, bottlenecks and more ?

[Biohazard1247]

So currently my pc has a RX 580 8gb, and a R7 3700x, My current performance in games havent been great. They both could do with an upgrade but rn I'm looking at GPUs

I think ive decided to go for the 7900xt because I might as well go big so I wont have to upgrade in the future.
ASUS TUF Gaming AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT OC Edition is the card I have decided to go for.

It says its recommended for 750w and because I dont plan on overclocking it yet I feel hopefully I wont have to get a new power supply, I do hope the psu I have has enough 8 pin connectors for the card.
If the card will run fine on 750w and I have to cut down on monitors for it to do so then I wont mind until I get a higher watt one.

Ive read around that the 3700x will be a bottleneck for the 7900xt and I dont doubt it, I will probably look to upgrade to the R7 5800x3d because its still within the AM4 architecture. This will be a massive boost in performance. Though because the 7900xt is still a massive improvement from a 580, I think I could live with a little bottleneck for a little bit.

The card should fit inside my Corsair 5000x so I dont think that'll be an issue

Other than that I believe those are my only concerns although there could be more.

If theres anything ive missed, lmk.

Specs:
Radeon RX 580 GPU
Ryzen 7 3700X CPU
B550 tomahawk
MSI MPG A750GF
32gb ddr4 3200 (4x8)

 

[geofelt]

There is no such thing as "bottlenecking"
If, by that, you mean that upgrading a cpu or graphics card can
somehow lower your performance or FPS.
A better term might be limiting factor.
That is where adding more cpu or gpu becomes increasingly
less effective.
You WILL do better, the question is by how much.

Some games are more cpu limited such as sims,mmo and strategy games.
Others are more graphics limited like fast action games and higher resolutions.
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.

 

[Wuwu]

Buy the 7900 XT, that specific model can be run at MBA clocks (2.4ghz core with just 0.880mv on standard power limiter and it will suck just 275w max)

I own the card.

See here for my own results.

GPU Overclocking Thread

Share, discuss, and read about peoples best overclocks down below.

forums.tomshardware.com

As for the CPU, it will bottleneck it yes, I would go for a 5700x if you can't afford the jump to a 5800x3D.

The PSU you own is the 750W version of the MPG family from MSI, I have the 850w version, you will be able to OC the card to insane levels with zero instability from the PSU.

You can maintain 380 wats power draw on the ASUS TUF at around 2850-2.9ghz in heavy titles, games such as COD MW2 will go up to 3.2ghz due to lower power demands.

My sweet spot all round overclock is found at 2720mhz at 0.980mv and +5 power, this caps the card to 300w and the core clock is maintained everywhere, instead of having the clock speed drop in heavy games.

At stock the card is advertised as 2.8ghz, but it however drops to about 2.5ghz in heavy titles due to the stock voltage of 1.1v

 

[rambo919]

The thing you have to remember is bottlenecking only becomes an issue on a case by case basis depending on the payload.

Sometimes you need a faster CPU and sometimes a faster GPU, it's rare that one actually significantly drags down the other unless the CPU is especially weak which this one is not.

There might be a 5-10% bottleneck here and there but that mostly has to do with generational feature updates on the motherboard side which relies on new CPU or GPU feature sets.... mostly this is negligible and not even properly implemented on the software side if at all.

Either way if you get a new GPU it is advised to get a brand name PSU that is at least 100w higher than the recommended wattage, to give the system some headroom. The new stuff is freakishly power hungry.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Your R7-3700X is still more than enough for most games. One very important question is the resolution you play at because if it's 1080p, then an RX 7900 XT would be a total waste because your 3700X will bottleneck it and it's far too expensive a card for 1080p gaming.

At higher resolutions like 1440p and/or 2160p, resolutions that justify the purchase of an RX 7900 XT, your R7-3700X won't be a significant bottleneck.

Honestly though, if you're using an RX 580, even the "lowly" RX 6600 would be a massive upgrade with a very noticeable performance uplift.

The RX 6600 is 68% faster than the RX 580. That's a huge uplift and one that would probably feel amazing to someone with an RX 580.

 

[rambo919]

Your R7-3700X is still more than enough for most games. One very important question is the resolution you play at because if it's 1080p, then an RX 7900 XT would be a total waste because your 3700X will bottleneck it and it's far too expensive a card for 1080p gaming.

At higher resolutions like 1440p and/or 2160p, resolutions that justify the purchase of an RX 7900 XT, your R7-3700X won't be a significant bottleneck.

Honestly though, if you're using an RX 580, even the "lowly" RX 6600 would be a massive upgrade with a very noticeable performance uplift.

The RX 6600 is 68% faster than the RX 580. That's a huge uplift and one that would probably feel amazing to someone with an RX 580.

Unless future-proofing is kept in mind, in 5 years time it will not bottleneck anymore in the same way.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Unless future-proofing is kept in mind, in 5 years time it will not bottleneck anymore in the same way.

Future-proofing is, for the most part, a fallacy. This is because, under most circumstances, it's an exercise in futility. Just ask anyone who paid close to $2000 for an RTX 2080 Ti.

It's like, if you have $1000, you could spend all of it right away on a halo product but if you were to spend $500 now and $500 when you upgrade, the second part that you paid $500 for would be superior to the original $1000 part.

There are exceptions to this but they are very few. For me, I bought my RX 7900 XTX because I believe the speculation that another GPU shortage is coming, caused by the major chipmakers dedicating more and more fab allocation to AI chips instead of GPUs. I know that a 24GB Flagship card will "ride out the storm" very well and it may come to pass that, just like before, paying ~$1300CAD(w/tax) would be considered an absolute bargain for an RX 7900 XTX just two years from now. I also couldn't justify paying an extra 70% of the RX 7900 XTX's price for the RTX 4090 when the 4090 is, on average, only 24% faster than the XTX and has the same 24GB of VRAM.

The case of CPUs is different because while, yes, they don't have a very large impact on high-resolution gaming, it's the CPU that makes your computer fast or laggy in all other situations. However, as long as Windows doesn't feel laggy to you and your games are nice and playable, who cares what CPU is under your hood? The same truth applies though as the entry-level Ryzen 5 7600 has, overall, similar gaming performance to the Ryzen 7 5800X3D. The only reason to get the X3D was to avoid buying new RAM and a new motherboard, extending my ability to leverage the RAM and motherboard that I already paid for. If I had nothing and wanted to build a gaming rig today, there is no question that the R5-7600 would be my CPU of choice. Don't worry about what's good, just worry about what's good enough. 😉

 

[rambo919]

Future-proofing is, for the most part, a fallacy. This is because, under most circumstances, it's an exercise in futility. Just ask anyone who paid close to $2000 for an RTX 2080 Ti.

This only applies if you are using high end resolutions and demand ultra settings. For 1080p all you need to do is project what you will need on medium-low settings 5 years in the future.

What has changed recently with upscaling is devs are cutting new corners and it's unclear what this means for the future of hardware. IMO upscaling was a terrible mistake given it's marketing being taken at face value and it being used now in ways it was not actually designed for, it's probably going to become a circus.

There are exceptions to this but they are very few. For me, I bought my RX 7900 XTX because I believe the speculation that another GPU shortage is coming, caused by the major chipmakers dedicating more and more fab allocation to AI chips instead of GPUs. I know that a 24GB Flagship card will "ride out the storm" very well and it may come to pass that, just like before, paying ~$1300CAD(w/tax) would be considered an absolute bargain for an RX 7900 XTX just two years from now. I also couldn't justify paying an extra 70% of the RX 7900 XTX's price for the RTX 4090 when the 4090 is, on average, only 24% faster than the XTX and has the same 24GB of VRAM.

This time it's going to be different, all the good will will have been spent as well as disposable cash. People will simply stop buying and re-evaluate. It helps of course that almost none of the recent AAA games that actually require discrete GPU's have been worth much anyway. The biggest releases have been major disappointments or even outright failures, incentives are increasingly shifting towards games that only require onboard or low end GPU's. It's just plain going to reach a point where people are not willing to be extorted just for a handful of games they might want to play.

The case of CPUs is different because while, yes, they don't have a very large impact on high-resolution gaming, it's the CPU that makes your computer fast or laggy in all other situations. However, as long as Windows doesn't feel laggy to you and your games are nice and playable, who cares what CPU is under your hood? The same truth applies though as the entry-level Ryzen 5 7600 has, overall, similar gaming performance to the Ryzen 7 5800X3D. The only reason to get the X3D was to avoid buying new RAM and a new motherboard, extending my ability to leverage the RAM and motherboard that I already paid for. If I had nothing and wanted to build a gaming rig today, there is no question that the R5-7600 would be my CPU of choice. Don't worry about what's good, just worry about what's good enough. 😉

That's why I said the way it's going to bottleneck will change, for the vast majority of people the CPU is the bottleneck whether positive or negative that matters the least. All you need to do is buy high enough end that it will probably perform as mid end in 10 years time. In my experience this was true for the i2700 and i8700 as example. CPU's and motherboards rarely introduce "must have" features which is good considering their price. As long as you keep your expectations low you can plan ahead and save your money for something else by buying just a little bit more expensive. If nothing else you buy once instead of 2 or 3 times.

 

[Avro Arrow]

This only applies if you are using high end resolutions and demand ultra settings. For 1080p all you need to do is project what you will need on medium-low settings 5 years in the future.

You didn't understand what I said. The fallacy I as referring to was about paying more in the name of futureproofing. Buying a 1080p card is not considered "futureproofing". Buying a 1440p card for 1080p gaming could be called "futureproofing".

The idea of futureproofing is the idea that buying more than you currently need will cause your system to last longer. It is somewhat true, but it really isn't worth it.

That's all I was saying.

 

[Order 66]

You didn't understand what I said. The fallacy I as referring to was about paying more in the name of futureproofing. Buying a 1080p card is not considered "futureproofing". Buying a 1440p card for 1080p gaming could be called "futureproofing".

The idea of futureproofing is the idea that buying more than you currently need will cause your system to last longer. It is somewhat true, but it really isn't worth it.

That's all I was saying.

I agree, the 6800 is a 1440p card now and will be a 1080p card in the future.

 

[wcbhkids]

Bottlenecking and future proofing are extremely overrated, and often misunderstood, concepts. Buy the best GPU you can reasonably afford that works for your needs now.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I agree, the 6800 is a 1440p card now and will be a 1080p card in the future.

What's most important for your RX 6800 is the VRAM capacity. Games won't be giving it a hard time in the future due to a lack of VRAM. There's nothing worse than having a card that still has good GPU horsepower but is hamstrung by a small VRAM buffer. That's exactly what happened to my R9 Furies. Sure, they had HBM1 with a 4096-bit bus which made for unbelievably fast VRAM but it was still only 4GB and I would take 8GB of GDDR5 over 4GB of HBM1 for gaming any day of the week and twice on Sunday. HBM1 excelled in more professional workloads.

Having "too much" VRAM isn't really an issue because, let's face it, it's dirt cheap. Now, sure, nVidia might try to claim that 8GB of VRAM costs $100 (RTX 4060 Ti 8GB vs RTX 4060 Ti 16GB) but, as usual, nVidia was shown to be a bunch of liars as the difference between the Intel Arc A770 8GB and A770 16GB was only $20USD. I would happily spend an extra $20 on an extra 8GB of VRAM, even if I never ended up needing it because it's only $20 and it would be one less thing to have to think about.

In any case, it sure beats paying $20 less and possibly having stuttering issues at high resolutions, eh?

 

[Order 66]

In any case, it sure beats paying $20 less and having stuttering issues at high resolutions, eh?

The amount of stutter in Fortnite from my old RX 550's 4GB of VRAM was crazy. Although I am not sure how much of it was the GPU or the i5-6500 in the PC.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Bottlenecking and future proofing are extremely overrated, and often misunderstood, concepts. Buy the best GPU you can reasonably afford that works for your needs now.

Absolutely I agree with you. People are always trying to buy what's "good" instead of what's "good enough".

 

[Avro Arrow]

The amount of stutter in Fortnite from my old RX 550's 4GB of VRAM was crazy. Although I am not sure how much of it was the GPU or the i5-6500 in the PC.

It was probably your CPU because Fortnite is famous for being easy on GPUs and everybody plays it at potato settings anyway. At higher resolutions and graphical settings, the GPU slows down and masks the shortcomings of the CPU but if the CPU can't do 60FPS, it can't do 60FPS no matter what resolution you're using. All you can do is either get a better CPU or overclock yours and pray that it makes the difference.

 

[rambo919]

You didn't understand what I said. The fallacy I as referring to was about paying more in the name of futureproofing. Buying a 1080p card is not considered "futureproofing". Buying a 1440p card for 1080p gaming could be called "futureproofing".

The idea of futureproofing is the idea that buying more than you currently need will cause your system to last longer. It is somewhat true, but it really isn't worth it.

That's all I was saying.

To get this into context. My typical PC build lasts 10 or more years because I plan ahead for it to last at least that long with the occasional but rare incrementation upgrade such as storage or failure replacement such as PSU. My typical GPU lasts me at least 7 years.

People that only focus on what they need right now however build PC's that last them only half or a third of that.

If you buy the highest end of any kind of hardware you are already a big spender who will never care about futureproofing and probably resells his old hardware to fund new hardware instead of using the equipment until it fails or becomes obsolete. I have never resold anything, at that point I give it away.

 

[Avro Arrow]

To get this into context. My typical PC build lasts 10 or more years because I plan ahead for it to last at least that long with the occasional but rare incrementation upgrade such as storage or failure replacement such as PSU. My typical GPU lasts me at least 7 years.

People that only focus on what they need right now however build PC's that last them only half or a third of that.

Yep, but at the end of those 10 years, if they spend the same amount of money that you did, their PC will be way better than yours.

If you buy the highest end of any kind of hardware you are already a big spender who will never care about futureproofing and probably resells his old hardware to fund new hardware instead of using the equipment until it fails or becomes obsolete. I have never resold anything, at that point I give it away.

Now you're doing mental gymnastics because it was quite clear that I wasn't referring to people with more money than brains as there's no point in talking to them because saving money where they can and getting the best value is meaningless to them. I recommended against spending more which means that I'm not talking to the people with more money than brains. I'm talking about the vast majority of gamers who don't have unlimited budgets. There are a good number of them who bankrupt themselves chasing the newest gaming tech the same way that some people would choose to live in a tent if it meant that they could afford to drive a BMW.

There was nothing in my post that indicated that I was referring to people with more money than brains because I'm not that stupid. I honestly don't understand how you came to that conclusion but since there's literally nothing in print from me saying this, I can guarantee you that it's all in your head.

 

[rambo919]

Yep, but at the end of those 10 years, if they spend the same amount of money that you did, their PC will be way better than yours.

This is a difference of timing nothing more.

Now you're doing mental gymnastics because it was quite clear that I wasn't referring to people with more money than brains as there's no point in talking to them because saving money where they can and getting the best value is meaningless to them. I recommended against spending more which means that I'm not talking to the people with more money than brains. I'm talking about the vast majority of gamers who don't have unlimited budgets. There are a good number of them who bankrupt themselves chasing the newest gaming tech the same way that some people would choose to live in a tent if it meant that they could afford to drive a BMW.

There was nothing in my post that indicated that I was referring to people with more money than brains because I'm not that stupid. I honestly don't understand how you came to that conclusion but since there's literally nothing in print from me saying this, I can guarantee you that it's all in your head.

The only difference between the top most and the middle to top is scale, it's the same pattern. The only way to future proof to any extent is to buy low to middle. You are looking at this in too binary a manner perhaps where there is only the top spenders and everyone else..... when the middle spenders often have more in common with the top spenders than they do the low spenders.

There is very little difference between someone that buys a 4090 and a 4080 when most people only need a 4070 at most.... your 4070 buyer will likely use the GPU for longer than your 4080 buyer especially if he is actually a 4060 buyer that spent a bit extra.

Reverse that and look at it as a low spender budgeting as a middle spender to extend the lifetime of a build and save money as well as effort. Anyone that rebuys what he already has when it still functions properly has very likely made an unwise purchase to begin with or is buying something he does not really need but has convinced himself he does.

 

[wcbhkids]

To get this into context. My typical PC build lasts 10 or more years because I plan ahead for it to last at least that long with the occasional but rare incrementation upgrade such as storage or failure replacement such as PSU. My typical GPU lasts me at least 7 years.

People that only focus on what they need right now however build PC's that last them only half or a third of that.

If you buy the highest end of any kind of hardware you are already a big spender who will never care about futureproofing and probably resells his old hardware to fund new hardware instead of using the equipment until it fails or becomes obsolete. I have never resold anything, at that point I give it away.

People that only focus on what they need right now will upgrade critical components half way thru that 10 year lifecyle, ending up spending the same amount of money, while having a much better PC toward the second half of the decade.