Make Win 7 look/act like 2k/XP?

lucuis · Oct 24, 2009

blaklite :

That's news to me, i've been in there plenty of times in Vista and Windows 7, which version are you using?

Zoron · Oct 25, 2009

I still don't see your complaint, as I am perfectly able to access all the folders you complain you can't access on Vista and 7. All the customization options from XP are available in both Vista and 7 as well. They may not be exactly where they were in XP, but that does not mean they don't exist.

Your anti-MS rant indicates that you have a proclivity to hate anything they do short of giving their product away for free. I know... making money on a product you pay other people to develop is evil. Let's just sack the whole lot of them and force them to work for free. No one should be able to profit from their own or anyone else's ideas.

Windows does what I want, when I want. If it didn't, then I wouldn't use it. I'm well aware of it's shortcomings... both real and rumor. I know it's difficult for you to understand why anyone could possibly like and use Windows for more than just games... but those people can and do exist. After all, Apple is even worse than Microsoft and they still manage to attract a user base with an almost fanatical dedication. Some of us just don't need to be "saved" from the "devil".

sminlal · Oct 25, 2009

Zoron :

If you turn off "Hide Protected Operating System Files" and go to the root of your profile folder, you'll see shortcuts such as "My Documents" in addition to the real "My Documents" folder. If you try to click on the shortcut you get "Access Denied".

That's one of the things that annoyed me too, but I eventually decided to just let explorer hide all that stuff in my unprivileged account so now it only annoys me when I have to use my administrative account.

Zoron · Oct 25, 2009

Annoying? Sure, maybe. Worth complaining about and ranting and raving about MS? Not so much.

blaklite · Oct 26, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT9c_1R7wNc

and so it begins

Zoron · Oct 27, 2009

Might make a tad more sense to me if I understood Japanese...

I'm just left guessing that something isn't working for him... though I don't know what or why.

patchie · Nov 11, 2009

i always wonder why the worlds most famous os doesnt have more than one gui...

the standard win7 gui is made for kids and people that isnt so advanced..

linux for example has got tons of gui's..where you can use what you want according to what your needs are..

me for example doesnt need a flashy gui with sound..

i would want to customize everything so that the win utilities i want to use work as i want them to work...

i also was forced to install win7 when i bought 8gb ram..

i really hope that M$ in the future would make one gui for kids...and one gui for advanced users and one for ordinairy people...then everyone would be happy

xaira · Nov 11, 2009

close this thread [lease

Aurelius · Nov 22, 2009

uh_no :

You can work in a rapidly changing tech sector and still criticize POINTLESS and VEXATIOUS changes in the technology. In fact, such criticism is valuable. Not every change is a change for the better.

cjl · Nov 22, 2009

patchie :

What are you talking about? You can do a tremendous amount from the Win7 gui, and even more from the command line. What specifically do you want?

Oh, and you can turn off the sounds in 7 if you want. You can even make it look like Windows 98. That would not be a flashy GUI at all.

Zoron · Nov 26, 2009

Sorry... staring at a command line just doesn't scream "advanced". True advancement makes technology easier to use... like being able to double-click an icon rather than typing archaic commands into a text box. Making things unnecessarily complicated isn't more advanced nor is it more enlightened... it's just a nice way to make you appear more intelligent.

Your ideas of a GUI aren't necessarily better... they might be better for you... but you might be in the extreme minority. If I thought that Windows was severly limited for what I wanted to accomplish, then I wouldn't use it.

cjl · Nov 26, 2009

Zoron :

Honestly, for some things, I prefer the command line. The command line diskpart utility is better than the GUI-based disk management for example (in my opinion). That having been said, I agree that the ideal situation would have everything easily accessible from the GUI, including advanced features.

sminlal · Nov 26, 2009

Zoron :

Depends on what you mean by "advanced". The most sophisticated users demand a system with good command-line capabilities because it makes it easy to create scripts to automate your workflow.

Zoron · Nov 27, 2009

I didn't say command line couldn't be powerful... it just isn't advanced. We started out with command line-based OSes, so continuing to use it doesn't constitute advancement.

Having said that, the command line can still be a powerful tool to be sure. Now if we could replace EVERYTHING that the command line allows us to do with simple, clickable GUI-based commands... then we'd truly have a more "advanced" OS. As I said before, something that is truly advanced isn't only powerful, it's also easier to use.

sminlal · Nov 27, 2009

Zoron :

Don't make the mistake of thinking that command-line environments have been sitting still for the last few decades. The PowerShell command shell is very advanced - it's a fully object-oriented command processor that leverages all of the power of the .Net Framework. It's a huge step forward from previous Windows scripting solutions.

Command lines aren't "better" or "worse" than GUIs - they just serve a different purpose. A capable operating system and a savvy system administrator needs both tools to do a good job efficiently.

Zoron · Nov 27, 2009

I didn't say better or worse... I was just questioning the "advanced" part of the issue. Hell I still use the command line too... I just don't think it's an advanced way of doing things. When we no longer need the command line, then we will have a truly advanced OS. Right now, it still serves a purpose as you say and it is still a powerful tool... I just think of it as the old way of doing things.

KillaStone · Dec 22, 2009

Jonmor68 :

Yeah this is a pretty sad commentary ..

What if you were a guitar player and you spent the last 7-13 years learning to play the guitar.

But in order to keep playing with bands you had to learn to use a new guitar that no longer functioned the way you've been trained to play. All the controls are in a different position and even the strings have been thickened, thinned, changed distances between strings, tunings, etc.

This was all done to "optimize" your playing experience.

"Just keep adapting", they tell you. "C'mon keep up, mate."

I wonder how many guitarists would take their beloved $2K Martin and smash it over the skull of the guy who told him that.

I've been using Windows since Windows 286. Microsoft Access since 1.1.
And that makes me pretty adaptable.

But the fact is, modern OS's are much more complex than they were in the 80's. And the interaction of 3rd party software has correspondingly become more sophisticated and intertwined with them.

Windows NT was a major step forward for M$FT in terms of building a real OS. Networking, security, system administration. They really delivered. The UI was dull, but it was a real OS.

Finally after Win2K there was WinXP. This was a marvelous triumph of OS performance and GUI interaction for the user. A few hiccups, no doubt. But an undisputed triumph.

People mastered this tool. Became craftsmen, both the software designers and the end users.
Much like the discovery and use of bronze for ancient people.

XP and the server products really enabled most facets of computing to accomplish their tasks, whether corporate system administration, to complex database applications development, or the home user on the internet or any one of another sets of desires.

Millions of people have invested thousands of hours with the way XP responds to the user (and the system) - including it's shortcomings.

Suddenly millions of man-hours are now cast down like eggs against heap of coal.

This is a major disservice by M$FT, no doubt meted out to the masses based on pure business economics.

It would not have been so difficult to design all the power of Windows 7 while retaining the user interaction of Windows XP.

It was done out of pure business expedience.

Let the USER decide how s/he wants to interact with the system. If there is a new feature, allow the USER to integrate it into his/her workflow.

Give us the power to use the abilities of new hardware/software, but don't strip us of the functionality which has served us (and others for the thousands of hours we've invested). Not so drastically anyhow.

When you really get down to it, the software (XP) already existed. How difficult is it to allow people to control their hardware/software/data using familiar methods?
Isn't this this the ultimate goal of software? To make things flexible?

Design new features - sure. Improve the Taskbar - sure.

But upsetting the way millions of people work - questionable.

And if you want to get "elitist" on me .. then by that standard .. Windows 7 and all the computers it rides on is sheer junk.

This is almost 2010 and we're still creaming our pants over 2TB 3.5 inch drives. Any idea how old the 3.5 inch drive is?! ***.

If you want to get real .. how about computers that we don't even have to think about.
In this day and age, I shouldn't even have to concern myself with what OS is running. I should just be able to desire something be done, and it's done.
"Computer, book me a flight to South Korea next Wednesday between 8 and 10 PM."

Forget about installing crappy PCIe/x circuit boards into ATX motherboards .. what crap is that? We did that *** back in the 80's!

I skipped over Vista and I'm now dealing with 7, and pretty much there's no way around that. I think most of this *** is crap.

The Win7 GUI is NOT a vast improvement and neither are any of its other user-experience qualities.

For the idiots who simply say "adapt", I'd like to see hear YOUR comments in 10 years when, someone who is still in diapers gains control of M$FT and pulls a Caligula on you.

daedalus685 · Dec 23, 2009

Wow.. your eloquent commentary kind of went for a right turn there almost exactly half way...

I'd like to have worked were you did in the 80's if you used ATX boards, and PCIe cards... being that ATX was made a standard in 1995, and PCIe 2004. But yes, I still have to put oil in my car, the same thing my grandfather had to do, which irritates me to no end! I wanted Jet packs by now... They promised us jet packs!

I'm not sure if the pun was intended... but yes.. "this sh*t is crap" is about as true a statement as I have read in ages...

Ah change.. no better way to get people ranting about nonsense...

Scotteq · Dec 23, 2009

Killa - Pretty long rant... Pretty Asinine, too. What with the overzealous usage of hyperbole and broken thoughts masquerading as logic.

But in the spirit of friendship, I highly recommend this book

KillaStone · Dec 24, 2009

Scotteq :

Maybe .. but it's no more asinine than Jonmor68's comment.

It also may appear as "broken thoughts masquerading as logic" because I didn't connect all the tiny dots for you.
Let me get a bit more granular for you.

Don't get me wrong .. I'm all for technology and innovation.

But each new "upgrade" is not necessarily an advancement for the user, nor for businesses. Vista & Win 7 are cases in point.

There's no reason why Win 7 couldn't have provided its new power & functionality while retaining XP's familiarity to "legacy" users - except as I said before, because MSFT NEEDED to implement certain MINIMAL functionality at the expense of the user and/or at the expedience of its business ambitions.

Jonmor68 was asserting that users should routinely dispose of their expertise because of MSFT's inflexibility.
It sounds a bit like you're asserting the same thing.

I also think you pointing me to the book, "Who Moved My Cheese?" is a bit Simple-Simon and quite laughable.

When was the last time you used a QWERTY keyboard?
When was THAT invented? lol (hint: 1874)

What about a mouse?
When was THAT invented? (hint: 1960-something)

I bet you're still using both of them on a regular basis.

So let's use logic. Let's be granular.

The REASON why the QWERTY keyboard was invented was due to the limitation of its mechanical implementation. The INTENT was to optimize the user's productivity by lowering the incidence of jammed keys. (In reality, however, users could still type faster than the machine allowed and could still cause jams. It was still incumbent upon the user to master the pace of the machine to prevent a jam).

And so why are you using the QWERTY keyboard today? We're no longer hampered by 1870's technology. I imagine there's someone right now sitting in a basement (or gray cubicle) figuring out how we could type faster using the new "KEYBOARD-AMAZING-XYZ(tm)."

So Aspiring Joe, CEO finds the guy in the basement and says "A-ha! Eureka! I shall make the world type a new way. There will be pain, sure. But they will thank me in the end."

"I have dominant influence in the market place."
"What am I talking about? I've got a f***ing, MONOPOLY! Mwuhahahah!

"Peons! Gather 'round. The QWERTY keyboard is no-more. Learn to type this way. It's better! (you dimwits)"

"Henceforth, the QWERTY keyboard shall be no longer be produced!" {The clanking of the villagers pounding on strips of iron comes to a sudden halt - mouths agog} (Scotteq - you may now feel free to look up my Caligula reference above)

"I proclaimeth that thee, villagers and peasants alike, shalt henceforth and forever more, make exclusive and perpetual use of the KEYBOARD-AMAZING-XYZ(tm)!!! Hearest any dissenters, do I? Me thinkest not!"

Aspiring Joe, CEO (aka Caligula) kicks his steed in the gut and rides back to his throne, immensely satisfied with his visionary contribution to the squalid condition of the masses.

In summary:
=================================================
I have personally gone from the Yamaha CX5M to the Apple II GS, to a 286 PC running DOS 3.3 to Windows 1.x to Mac System 7 to Windows-whatever on hardware-whatever.

XP has been in wide-spread use for about 10 years. That represents millions of man-hours (maybe 10's of millions). While people like you and me may be power-users who can pretty much adapt to anything, we are probably in the upper 10% of computer users/programmers.

And again, while I know personally I can adapt to this latest round of changes, I'm saying it's a major shortfall on the part of Microsoft (who DOES have an effective monopoly) to obligate "legacy XP" users to work in the "Vista/Win 7" way.

And the reason behind that is business economics.

The balancing factor will be that businesses will continue to run XP and Office 2003 for several years. (Because the new hardware runs that software as quickly if it were a DOS program)

There may even be a cottage industry of hackers who downgrade users' computers to XP.

For Jonmor68 to dismissively claim that the millions of users of the XP interface are Luddites is to misunderstand the collective investment in human-time that has been made. At some threshold there is a tipping point where the systems and and the software (OS) must adapt to the user base.

You really miss the boat by using that idiotic Cheese book.

I'm a professional software developer, and it's a tug of war to get users to adopt ANY change sometimes.

When I take feature set away, I have to justify that with a real benefit.

With Vista/Win 7, there is no reason why the XP methodology cannot be maintained, especially considering all that has been invested.

=====================================================

KillaStone · Dec 24, 2009

daedalus685 :

lol .. I was a bit tipsy on my first rendition .. Scotteq forced me to be a bit more lucid.

Only ONE 6-pack of Becks this time.

:~]

The_Prophecy · Dec 24, 2009

And just think Killa.... all that time you spent ranting above as you did, you could have spent learning and adapting to Windows 7. Oh well, your loss.

Your stories in these rants are, while somewhat amusing, so drastically exaggerated that you are no longer believable. I went from laughing at your ridiculous stories, to simply laughing at you.

KillaStone · Dec 24, 2009

Whatever, kid.

The_Prophecy · Dec 24, 2009

KillaStone :

Hey! I recognize that smell! That's the smell of someone's brain trying to think of a good comeback. Epic fail.

KillaStone · Dec 24, 2009

Proph .. Obvious sign of watered-down kid-mental-dimension ... substituting any kind of real argument (with facts, reason, study of human history and personal life experience) with .. uh "epic fail" circa 'World of Warcraft' cliches?

How's about using your brain and not stealing some cheap terminology from .. ugh .. barf .. WoW.

Seriously man ... I was reading Greek philosophy at 14 as a runaway.

Compared to the vast expanse of human thought, I have maybe had 1 or 2 original thoughts in my life time ... maybe.

The only thing that early study gave me was the ability to be critical ... critical of others' thoughts, critical of my own.

What is a valid thought? How can I be sure? How can decide what thought should I keep? Which one to discard?

Not so easy my friend.

Well .. chances are .. no matter what I say .. you won't understand .. whether I use "logic" or "appeal" or whatever have you.

Everyone has their own perspective ... some perspectives take hold ... other perspectives do not.

That's evolution I suppose .. and I suppose influenced .. not by "what's best" but by "what is."

I think people like me .. we're trying to help ... and maybe my methods aren't the best .. maybe there's someone out there ... someone who's a lot better at this than me.

Well .. this is just Tom's f***ing Hardware right?

wtf diff does it make? lol

Anyhow ... who gives a rat's a** what I think .. it's almost xmas.

Enjoy your new computer and enjoy Win 7

God Bless

Make Win 7 look/act like 2k/XP?

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