News Microsoft’s Windows on Arm Dev Kit Costs $599

[Admin]

Microsoft's $599 Windows Dev Kit 2023 is a purpose-built box for developers to build apps for Windows on Arm

Microsoft’s Windows on Arm Dev Kit Costs $599 : Read more

 

[velocityg4]

I wonder how long it will take until benchmarks show up comparing this to Apple's M1 or M2?

 

[Xenx]

I wonder how long it will take until benchmarks show up comparing this to Apple's M1 or M2?

The chip in this has been out for a while. See the Lenovo ThinkPad X13s. The comparisons are not good vs Apple, but they do show a marked generation improvement. Benchmarks vs reality, but the M1 is like 50+% faster.

 

[verdammte]

You have to keep something in mind with these benchmarks. Apple devices use their own language with machine code created for the exact model SoC that's going to run the devices and it's doing so on a secured platform. Windows benchmarks are not written and compiled for any particular SoC at all. It's completely generic so much that an M1 Mac can run a windows benchmark inside windows. That create a major, major bias in favour of the Apple chips with benchmarks results. Comparing the two is like having an able-bodied sprinter and a handicapped sprinter running the exact same race, side-by-side. That's just not a fair comparison.

I respect the M1 and M2. I bought a macbook with an M1 Pro so I could do my sound design and music composition work and I enjoy it (even though I despise Apple). Regardlesss, we simply can't compare them until Windows apps are compiled specifically for the SQ1, the SQ2, the SQ3, or whatever else is in them, cause when you run that same benchmarking software on the Apple device, the code is not only already apple specific, but it's apslo compiled for the exact SoC running the application. Not even close to fair. Of course the Apple will have a much better score. Do I think the Apple SoCs genuinely outperform the SQ1 and SQ2? Yes. I also know the SQ2 GPU outperforms both the M1/Pro and the M2's GPUs. The SQ3 GPU should outperform all of them as well, aside from the Ultra. I think we'd find the SQ3 and M2 are about on par with each other in a balanced test while we'd also see the SQ3's 3w of power usage absolutely destroying the 15-75w of power draw throughout the M-series. The SQ3 and family are unquestionably the best performers per watt from what I can see. When it comes to memory, it's hard to tell, but the Apple unified memory is likely a fair bit faster, but the nvme speed sucks and it's hard to upgrade sizes. It's easy to do on the Surface. I've done it many times.

 

[bit_user]

I hope someone gets Linux booting on these. Still kinda pricey, relative to a comparable NUC, but a lot more interesting for desktop usage than a Rasperry Pi 4!

 

[bit_user]

You have to keep something in mind with these benchmarks. Apple devices use their own language with machine code created for the exact model SoC that's going to run the devices and it's doing so on a secured platform. Windows benchmarks are not written and compiled for any particular SoC at all. It's completely generic so much that an M1 Mac can run a windows benchmark inside windows. That create a major, major bias in favour of the Apple chips with benchmarks results. Comparing the two is like having an able-bodied sprinter and a handicapped sprinter running the exact same race, side-by-side. That's just not a fair comparison.

I don't agree with this. I'm not really sure which ARMv8-A extensions would yield the kind of performance benefit that you claim. If you look at Apple's upstreamed LLVM support for their CPUs, all they do is enable different ISA extensions, but they use the same cost model as their first ARMv8-A CPUs.

The SQ3 GPU should outperform all of them as well, aside from the Ultra.

I don't know what you're basing this other than marketing hype. The SQ3 is basically an 8cx Gen 3, which is quad-X1 + quad-A78. Those cores aren't remotely comparable to the M1's. Even ARM's latest A715 and X3 aren't.

Qualcomm won't have anything that can challenge Apple at least until their Nuvia-powered generation reaches the market, although last I heard they're currently tied up in court battles with ARM.

 

[JamesJones44]

Regardlesss, we simply can't compare them until Windows apps are compiled specifically for the SQ1, the SQ2, the SQ3, or whatever else is in them, cause when you run that same benchmarking software on the Apple device, the code is not only already apple specific, but it's apslo compiled for the exact SoC running the application

A Benchmark could compile for generic a generic ARM instruction set and it would work on both. I can't say that they will ever do this, but it's possible.