Microsoft Changes Browser Ballot to Appease EU

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[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom]Exactly. When this case started you can not buy PC without Windows Installed on it. Even today is very difficult to buy PC without Windows. MS used their monopolistic power to force all OEMs to not sell PC with out OS pre-install. And guess what, MS get paid a license fee. I don't get refund when I wipe out the Windows and use other OS. When I can go to any store and buy PC without OS and it is cheaper then the PC with PC bundled with MS Windows MS could bundle their IE with their OS. Until then they will comply with EU. And EU is elected. Just this summer there was election in EU for EU parliament. It is your fault that you elected not to go to vote when the elections was held in UK.[/citation]

I did vote in the EU elections.
The new EU President IS NOT ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE.

The EU constitution was rejected by the Dutch and French and reworded. It then became the Lisbon treaty.

The Lisbon Treaty WAS NOT RATIFIED BY THE UK PEOPLE, WE WERE NOT GIVEN A VOTE. THAT IS NOT DEMOCRACY.

And finally, you can buy a PC without any OS from many online retailers, or build it yourself, again without an OS.

Sorry for the shouty bits, but I think they were important.
 
rtfm that's the point you don't have a choice! Use Windows or use Linux but not all apps work in either OS. Unfair competition stifles advancement when you are stuck with only one choice. Microsoft bundeling IE is monopolistic behavior granting them exclusive rights that other companies will be forced to pay in order to use it's services in future applications. Worldwide antitrust laws are clear: Abusive conduct to curb competition by a dominant monopoly is against the law. Break free from Micro$uks stranglehold that has deliberately restricted competition and slowed the pace of innovation. EU is trying to keep fair and open competition.
 
[citation][nom]rtfm[/nom]I did vote in the EU elections.The new EU President IS NOT ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE.The EU constitution was rejected by the Dutch and French and reworded. It then became the Lisbon treaty.The Lisbon Treaty WAS NOT RATIFIED BY THE UK PEOPLE, WE WERE NOT GIVEN A VOTE. THAT IS NOT DEMOCRACY.And finally, you can buy a PC without any OS from many online retailers, or build it yourself, again without an OS.Sorry for the shouty bits, but I think they were important.[/citation]

Please don't get angry.

Now you can buy PC without OS, but not when this case started and when MS made the decision to integrate the IE into the OS. This case is about past doing and how MS going to pay for it. Thing has started to change, but if there was no antitrust cases against MS we will be still stuck with IE6.

Yes, EU is in process of construction yet. The things will change with new members joining the EU. The fact that French and Dutch got their voices heard is testament that EU is democratic.
But I can understand that you don't like how things are handled in UK. It is not EU problem that UK government had elected not to put Lisbon Treaty for vote in UK. Yes, If you feel that way you have right to call your officials and tell them what you think. If they refuse to listen to you, you can start campaigning against them. And if you get support you will win. That is how democracy works. It is slow, but better.

And thank you for voting. Everyone should do this.
 
[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom] It is not EU problem that UK government had elected not to put Lisbon Treaty for vote in UK. Yes, If you feel that way you have right to call your officials and tell them what you think. If they refuse to listen to you, you can start campaigning against them. And if you get support you will win. That is how democracy works. It is slow, but better. And thank you for voting. Everyone should do this.[/citation]


The whole issue many have with the EU is that it has gone way beyond it's original purpose of free trade and co-operation. The fact that the EU allows member countries to ratify the treaty without a referendum is undemocratic. The UK not allowing a vote is just another smack in the face for Joe public.

We can agree though, everyone one should vote (I tell my friends who don't like any of the candidates to spoil their ballot, as this still shows in the statistics). You can't moan about the system if you're not part of it.

/End of political rant (promise)
 
[citation][nom]rtfm[/nom]The whole issue many have with the EU is that it has gone way beyond it's original purpose of free trade and co-operation. The fact that the EU allows member countries to ratify the treaty without a referendum is undemocratic. The UK not allowing a vote is just another smack in the face for Joe public. (promise)[/citation]
Yes, I know. And I think that some changes are going way too fast. I don't like referendums. I prefer the elections. And I like to keep my representative accountable for his/her behavior. There is no accountable party during the referendum. If we all do this the system will work much better and corruption will not be such a problem.
 
[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom]Please don't get angry. Now you can buy PC without OS, but not when this case started and when MS made the decision to integrate the IE into the OS. This case is about past doing and how MS going to pay for it. Thing has started to change, but if there was no antitrust cases against MS we will be still stuck with IE6.Yes, EU is in process of construction yet. The things will change with new members joining the EU. The fact that French and Dutch got their voices heard is testament that EU is democratic.But I can understand that you don't like how things are handled in UK. It is not EU problem that UK government had elected not to put Lisbon Treaty for vote in UK. Yes, If you feel that way you have right to call your officials and tell them what you think. If they refuse to listen to you, you can start campaigning against them. And if you get support you will win. That is how democracy works. It is slow, but better. And thank you for voting. Everyone should do this.[/citation]

You can always buy PC without OS or build one yourself. The PC that came with OS are typically from local electronic stores. Those are for average user where as they don't event know what the term OS means; of course they will know if it's windows or Mac, but most of them dont even know what to do with a Box of hardware (PC without OS). Since you wanted a PC without OS means you are a little bit technical which means you can install an OS yourself, then why is it hard to buy a box of hardware when there are plenty online sites that offer it, or local computer stores that sell PC components?

The hold EU think is ridiculous, MS shouldnt include browser ballot and let them learn it the hard way.
 
[citation][nom]happi[/nom]You can always buy PC without OS or build one yourself. The PC that came with OS are typically from local electronic stores. Those are for average user where as they don't event know what the term OS means; of course they will know if it's windows or Mac, but most of them dont even know what to do with a Box of hardware (PC without OS). Since you wanted a PC without OS means you are a little bit technical which means you can install an OS yourself, then why is it hard to buy a box of hardware when there are plenty online sites that offer it, or local computer stores that sell PC components?The hold EU think is ridiculous, MS shouldnt include browser ballot and let them learn it the hard way.[/citation]
Really. I can build a PC Desktop, but I am having real problem building a laptop, especially small size 13"-15". And again "now" you can buy computer with out MS OS, but just about 5 years ago it was all most impossible. The only reason why this is happening because MS had to stop with their pressure on OEMs when EU antitrust investigation started. By the way I use to build PCs as a business and I have experienced MS pressure to not use other OSes or not to sell PCs without OS.
So why you don't help me a bit here and give me a links where I can by decent laptop without going directly to manufacture and paying very high price for engineering sample. (Let see how many laptops without os you are going to find and then will see about what choice I have in features.)
 
[citation][nom]mitch074[/nom]@Abrahm: when I first used Windows 95, there was no web browser: I installed Netscape. Then, IE 4 appeared: it installed itself on my nice Win95 install, screwed up Netscape, and it wouldn't remove itself - even after I put Netscape back in. Suddenly, I had popups, unrequired messages, adverts on my desktop, 5-20 mb of wasted RAM, and a desktop that would show error messages constantly (when an advert failed to run, or caused a Trident crash).I wanted to remove IE. I couldn't; it was 'fused with the OS'. Yay.Then, in 2003, I found out that the Mozilla project had made a 'light' browser, based on the Mozilla Suite's engine. It worked well, it was rather light, it did everything I needed it to... But even when I installed it, I still had to babysit IE, which WOULD NOT COME OFF and that WOULD NOT SHUT UP (it had no popup blocker). And versions 5.0,5.5,6.0,7.0 and 8.0 didn't make things any better. Still I tried: hunting for unused DLLs, removing registry settings, deleting directories... Even authoring special WinXP install CDs with as much IE components removed as possible.It's a shame that as a Windows user I'm forced by MS to deal with IE's crap. Luckily, I don't suffer Windows too much any more.[/citation]

Get Windows 7 and shut up. (FYI you can remove it in 7)
 
I am going to sue god for not placing a variety of hot women in front of me when I was asking out my current girlfriend. It's not fair that when I decided to date her that I was not given a choice of at least 5 other hot women as well.
 
News just in: When you purchase a 12 pack of Coca-Cola, one of the twelve cans will be randomly chosen from another soda vendor. Since the Coca-Cola logos on the packaging favor Coca-Cola, all Coca-Cola boxes will not be completely white.

The EU forcing Microsoft to do this is utter nonsense.
 
This is the problem of incorporating politics to non political technical issues. This means EU wants MS to work hard on making their OS and then Put ads for other browsers on their OS and bury their own browse in the name of fair game. Nonsense!
 
[citation][nom]rean24[/nom]Next Target will be1) Windows Firewall .2) Windows Free Anti-VirusAnymore to be added to this list...[/citation]
I like the Windows firewall, and I like Windows Defender (your basic protection, works well actually) and Windows One Care (the free anti virus, which also works well).
IE8 also works just fine.

Honestly, I started using firefox because a guy made a custom html sie for a browser specifically for FF, and also for AddBlock+ (which apparantly needs to be updated more often recently).
Granted, the easier UI customization is nice (to give myself as much vertical real estate as I can).

Please leave MS alone EU. There are many legitimate reasons to go after them, however this is not one of them.
 
[citation][nom]CommonSense[/nom]I have an idea. If you don't like IE being coupled with Windows, maybe you could stop using Windows...[/citation]

I do agree that the whole ballot system is kinda stupid. And yes, compatibility with internet standards isn't just an IE issue.

Except that with the market share that Microsoft has with Windows, many people don't really have a choice. When I want to use web services that are only compatible with IE (because Windows and thus IE are the most common), what kind of choice do I have if IE is only available for Windows? Sure, I can also blame the companies and sometimes even government offices for putting IE-only web sites or even stop using their services, but this doesn't really fix the problem, now does it? Unless one has the means to make an appeal to court. But based on this EU decision about the whole ballot system thing, obviously authorities are way behind when it comes to figuring out how to manage technology.

Games that natively run on Linux or on Mac? Drivers for Linux? Sure there are workarounds, like Wine for example, but most people wouldn't have a clue on how to use them, nor will they find any official support to many problems that arise. This of-course guarantees Microsoft stays on top in their market share.

This monopoly of Microsoft in the OS market, that also reflects in internet services, does a disservice to all of us as clients by limiting our choices. And "don't use it then" is becoming less and less of a choice.



 
At least M$ still gives you the option to choose from browsers, where previous Windows didn't, and for all practical reasons, they don't need to supply us with a choice....if you don't like a pink keyboard, get a different one. Nobody forces anyone to buy Windows nowadays. Use it, or loose it...
 
"i would have pulled MS out of entire EU...loss profit be DAMMED!!!"

Me likes. :-D

"And to all those that are Mac and Linux fans, yes they are nice to work with and can a lot, but as soon as your beloved OS crosses the 50% popular point, I would bet my life they start experiencing problems like Microsoft."

I don't think that will happen with linux, as I do think of linux as DIY. ;-)
At the same time, I would like to see suing all the distributions at once. :-D (and for different browsers :ROFL:)

To ubuntu with firefox> It's installed, it can be uninstalled, there are easy ways to install different browser (provided by canonical them self - or that's the way I understand it, I'm not using ubuntu (less freedom)). And there will be nothing left... IE is different story. Being integrated is a security risk.

some thoughts> Why microsoft is being sued - because of market share. I don't think it's that much about money. But IMHO they are not that dangerous. OS's seem pretty well self regulated, and if one mishaps it will be replaced by some other. Only thing bothering me is software available only in windows versions. :-/
There are greater dangers - intel/amd, nvdia/ati,... If one of them dies the other gains monopoly. And there doesn't seem an easy way someone else could catch them. Even intel (a really big player) has troubles getting on the same level in graphic cards market as the other two. The only way he's able to cut them down is by integrated graphics.

And now to the topic:
The way it looks it's getting really weird. 🙂 It's somehow funny Microsoft displaying choice of installing Safari, firefox or Opera... :-D
Just giving the choice of installing IE yes/no would be enough. (but if I remember right, that's exactly what microsft won't do - don't want or can't)
The opinion - you don't want IE, don't buy windows is valid. (but many people aren't even able to think that way)

The next step> Mobile phone companies and carriers for bundling their versions of internet browsers. And most of the time you can't get rid of them.
 
[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom]Really. I can build a PC Desktop, but I am having real problem building a laptop, especially small size 13"-15". And again "now" you can buy computer with out MS OS, but just about 5 years ago it was all most impossible. The only reason why this is happening because MS had to stop with their pressure on OEMs when EU antitrust investigation started. By the way I use to build PCs as a business and I have experienced MS pressure to not use other OSes or not to sell PCs without OS. So why you don't help me a bit here and give me a links where I can by decent laptop without going directly to manufacture and paying very high price for engineering sample. (Let see how many laptops without os you are going to find and then will see about what choice I have in features.)[/citation]

This is just plain false. I've built desktop PCs for the past 20 years and never had an OS pre-installed on it. You could also buy them directly from major retailers without an OS installed. This isn't because of pressure on MS, it is just not hard to find a desktop or laptop without Windows installed on it. Hell, a lot of netbooks also come with Linux installed.

Your average PC user isn't going to know how to install an OS, nor is it recommended, nor will they even want to do so. That is why computers come with an OS pre-installed. Does a Mac come without OSX installed, ever? No, I don't think it does. So why would a WindowsPC come without Windows installed? You do know that pre-built PCs with Windows installed, are Windows PCs (and are usually labled as such!). Without Windows it is just a PC, which are not hard to find either.

Oh, you want a do it yourself laptop? Here you go:
http://computershopper.com/laptops/reviews/ocz-diy-gaming-laptop

There have been DIY laptops around for quite a few years now, but again, your average laptop user doesn't want the hassle of installing an OS! They do indeed have a choice as well, whether to go with Windows or not. Do the sales people at, for example Bestbuy, hold a gun to your head and say "No, you can't purchase a Mac, Windows only!".

Seriously, stop spreading unfounded garbage. You can easily find a computer without Windows and have been able to for a long, long time... Or are you going to tell me that my old TRS-80 ran Windows? Or my Apple IIe? Or my Vic-20 and C64? My 8088 ran MS-DOS, oh no!

Fact is, you have a choice with your PC if you want to run whatever distro of Linux you like, or if you want to run Windows. If you've researched your computer options, you'd know that you can download and install most Linux distros for free. However, your average consumer doesn't want to be hassled with that, or with learning how to use Linux. Even if at Bestbuy they gave you a choice of Windows or Linux, most consumers would pick Windows for it's ease of use.

Just what the hell were you supposed to be running 15 or even 10 years ago? Most people only knew of Windows or MacOS. Why is that Microsoft's fault, should they have been promoting another OS? Is it MS's or other PC manufacturers fault that Apple wanted (and still wants) to be proprietary with their hardware and software? So, what should Dell, HP, Gateway, etc., be installing on their pre-built PCs? Do you think 99% of users would be happy to recieve a PC which when they turn on, it beeps and says "No Operating System Found". Hell no they'd have masses of angry customers who have PCs that "don't work".

Seriously, just stop yourself with the "You can't find PCs without Windows". They are EASY to find if you care to stop ridiculous bashing of Microsoft and remove your blinders.
 
[citation][nom]Eccentric909[/nom]This is just plain false. I've built desktop PCs for the past 20 years and never had an OS pre-installed on it. You could also buy them directly from major retailers without an OS installed. This isn't because of pressure on MS, it is just not hard to find a desktop or laptop without Windows installed on it. Hell, a lot of netbooks also come with Linux installed.Your average PC user isn't going to know how to install an OS, nor is it recommended, nor will they even want to do so. That is why computers come with an OS pre-installed. Does a Mac come without OSX installed, ever? No, I don't think it does. So why would a WindowsPC come without Windows installed? You do know that pre-built PCs with Windows installed, are Windows PCs (and are usually labled as such!). Without Windows it is just a PC, which are not hard to find either.Oh, you want a do it yourself laptop? Here you go:http://computershopper.com/laptops [...] ing-laptopThere have been DIY laptops around for quite a few years now, but again, your average laptop user doesn't want the hassle of installing an OS! They do indeed have a choice as well, whether to go with Windows or not. Do the sales people at, for example Bestbuy, hold a gun to your head and say "No, you can't purchase a Mac, Windows only!".Seriously, stop spreading unfounded garbage. You can easily find a computer without Windows and have been able to for a long, long time... Or are you going to tell me that my old TRS-80 ran Windows? Or my Apple IIe? Or my Vic-20 and C64? My 8088 ran MS-DOS, oh no!Fact is, you have a choice with your PC if you want to run whatever distro of Linux you like, or if you want to run Windows. If you've researched your computer options, you'd know that you can download and install most Linux distros for free. However, your average consumer doesn't want to be hassled with that, or with learning how to use Linux. Even if at Bestbuy they gave you a choice of Windows or Linux, most consumers would pick Windows for it's ease of use. Just what the hell were you supposed to be running 15 or even 10 years ago? Most people only knew of Windows or MacOS. Why is that Microsoft's fault, should they have been promoting another OS? Is it MS's or other PC manufacturers fault that Apple wanted (and still wants) to be proprietary with their hardware and software? So, what should Dell, HP, Gateway, etc., be installing on their pre-built PCs? Do you think 99% of users would be happy to recieve a PC which when they turn on, it beeps and says "No Operating System Found". Hell no they'd have masses of angry customers who have PCs that "don't work".Seriously, just stop yourself with the "You can't find PCs without Windows". They are EASY to find if you care to stop ridiculous bashing of Microsoft and remove your blinders.[/citation]

Ok. 1 company 3 laptops. I think you just proved my statement.
Where are Dell's, Gateway's, HP's, BestBuy's or any "major retailers" no OS offerings!

1. Just because Apple decide to keep their system propriety why MS should try to make PC (open platform) propriety?

2. Just because many people don't know or want to install the OS, why I should sponsor them, by paying license to MS for OS that I don't want to use?

3. Just because I can build a PC some times I want to by PC without spending my time building it. Why should I be forced to buy an OS (any OS).
 
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