Microsoft: Cloud Will Quadruple Power of Xbox One

[drbaltazar]

guys Donnybrook was intended to pit 1000 player vs one another with 128 kb/s connection and an average calculated and wanted by ms engineer latency of 160 ms! they have been working on and off on this alone for 6 years! dont sweat it!a lot of thinking was poured into this! you know how ms has atendancy to no lunch something if they aren't sure! do you believe if balmer had found one freaking engineer on the whole planet working for ms saying nope it isn't ready, ms would lunch ? hell no! and like I say what they send to server IS everything related to mathematic that bring anything to its knees whatever computer or server you use! like shadow occlusion hdr etc! (just an exemple)since donnybrook idea was childplay compared to what xbox one will do! clearly someone at Microsoft fond a way to reunite a lot of various different faction together to make this happen! otherwise if not if it is just a small team cherry picking idea from their various shelf? outch! that would be very bad! but then I bet we wouldn't be surprised lol! sadly it is probably whats going on !the more I think about it! all ms pulling all in the same way and actually going forward ?like other have said ,I ll believe it when I see it!oh ms has all required to make this happen ,and I might add relatively easy to do! sadly the various internal struggle(bickering)make this full reunification highly unlikely! men it would be a dream come true! remember this,ms is snot generating the image on the server then sending generated image to the xbox!forget about that stupidity,so offline gaming is as it always was!but online game etc almost all the movement calculation be it for shadow lighting hdr blur etc etc etc will be offloaded it isn't gona do back and forth lol you are gona send your data to the server and there everything will be computed and sent back to you!right now ?you send data to every player that are in your vincinity so if you are in a city say orgrimar ,you are saying to every player there your self (computer)where you are ,and so do they .this take a lot of bandwith.but if server does this and only send you what you need ?like I mention view the freaking donnybrook video it will give you about 5 % idea of what they ll do in xbox one!why only 5%.because obviously someone very smart had too much tim on his or her hands and use donnybrook(a city solution)and implemented it into a galactic idea(just a figure of speech)

 

[icemunk]

Interesting, and a bit scary.. says he always on camera/microphone

 

[BulkZerker]

In other news. Comcast admits throttling XB1 connections. "They're pushing our limited resources and why should we upgrade an entire town so some console using basement dwelling neck beard can play the layest installment of arby n cheif?"

 

[Innocent_Bystander-1312890]

Those without a (good) internet connection thank you for your efforts.
IB

 

[hannibal]

All in all this all depends on how they will do it. If the extra power is just extra eye candy... That is just fine, but if the game does not work without good connection I can predict a lot of customers who goes to product support and say that their new gaming console does not work...
And when the man in the support ask how fast your internet connection is and the customer ask back "What internet connection?" we will get guite interesting situations...
I hope that game developers are very carefull with this new "opportunity" or they will get a lot returned "faulty" products...

 

[traumadisaster]

No comments from the experts who could give some context to this? I guess you have left because of the new format toms is using...

 

[Beast_mode]

I have trouble understanding how this information is propagated through a internet connection. I have a pitiful 5 meg line, how can you add additional resources to a video sub system thats already pushing information in the 100gb+ ranges?

 

[rcmaniac25]

Jeff Henshaw has obviously never encountered lag before.

 

[drbaltazar]

guys!ms will use its might to make this happen!do you own a xeon phi?do you know what it is?you probably should because that puppy alone will bring to the table a lot of power.you miss the whle point about the fact that ms isn't generating image at server end it is gona do all the mathematical stuff.and if you doubt this there is an insane lot to do.just window color system alone do an insane lot of computing conversion et etc etc.stuff that is basic and can be off loaded to a server (just a random exemple here).think outside the box .everything is a mathematical equation in game and the stream it is all encoding stuff that almost every user at pc dread.ask swifty for fun .he wait for hours for his encoding to be done ,cant game cant do fuck all .if this was all done at server he could game,same for stream .imagine if the data was sent directly to twitch from ms server instead of going from home to twitch etc (more resource lost)like I say.this isn't a maybe.i ll give you another hint!google this:remote differential compression!as long as this has been existing ALL OF US HAVE BEEN IGNORING THIS PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY!read what it actually does!it update only what need updating its footprint is so small a regular phone line could make it happen! know people have a hard time understanding the fact that so much insanely powerfull techno is sleeping in the ms area 51 warehouse !but it is sleeping there!worst as far has I have seen in most thread ?even when they have exactly memorized word for word what the text say or what the video say ?they still don't understand what ms is going on about!or how to make it happen.and this will be ms main challenge:they will need a highly automaised tool to go from :blizzard released product to put it on xbox one!i think if they don't automatize the living hell out of this or even do it themselves to make sure it is properly done ,they ll scare the dev away!

 

[warezme]

The obvious assumptions are that the user be tied to an always on gaming platform, that the physical network connection between the user and the "cloud" is wide enough and fast enough to deliver the processing of the "cloud" based computers, that there exist in a persistent state a record of every user game play status on a server for the life of the game or beyond and that developers are able to efficiently make games that can run on not only Xbox but other platforms not tied to the Xbox ecosystem. These are a lot of prerequisites that games like SimCity have proven to not work well, or not at all in the real world.

 

[genz]

guys!ms will use its might to make this happen!do you own a xeon phi?do you know what it is?you probably should because that puppy alone will bring to the table a lot of power.you miss the whle point about the fact that ms isn't generating image at server end it is gona do all the mathematical stuff.and if you doubt this there is an insane lot to do.just window color system alone do an insane lot of computing conversion et etc etc.stuff that is basic and can be off loaded to a server (just a random exemple here).think outside the box .everything is a mathematical equation in game and the stream it is all encoding stuff that almost every user at pc dread.ask swifty for fun .he wait for hours for his encoding to be done ,cant game cant do fuck all .if this was all done at server he could game,same for stream .imagine if the data was sent directly to twitch from ms server instead of going from home to twitch etc (more resource lost)like I say.this isn't a maybe.i ll give you another hint!google this:remote differential compression!as long as this has been existing ALL OF US HAVE BEEN IGNORING THIS PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY!read what it actually does!it update only what need updating its footprint is so small a regular phone line could make it happen! know people have a hard time understanding the fact that so much insanely powerfull techno is sleeping in the ms area 51 warehouse !but it is sleeping there!worst as far has I have seen in most thread ?even when they have exactly memorized word for word what the text say or what the video say ?they still don't understand what ms is going on about!or how to make it happen.and this will be ms main challenge:they will need a highly automaised tool to go from :blizzard released product to put it on xbox one!i think if they don't automatize the living hell out of this or even do it themselves to make sure it is properly done ,they ll scare the dev away!

A computer is a mathematical engine. Graphics is maths, audio is maths, physics in maths, runtime is maths, APIs are maths... EVERYTHING IS MATHS.

The simple fact is if you do 5 times the maths that I can, communicating it is going to take quite a few words unless you make me spend 75% of my power decompressing the giant uharc file you made, and even then, hats the latency going to be like?

I don't think it's possible and I have 100mbit up and down. The bandwidth isn't what kills the idea for me, the latency is.

Oh and for the guy who said 165ms latency.... considering they are just testing it inside the lab, that's horrible. That means it's gonna be 450ms by the time it goes through the real internet and reaches me... and most servers that kick people start at 300ms.

 

[Computerrock1]

So, what if I can only afford for an Internet connection of say 1 mbps, with an upload speed of .5 mbps. How exactly will I benefit from that cloud power where my internet speed becomes the bottleneck. That is when the cloud will become a hinderance instead of a computational aid... Not everyone can afford a good internet (or any internet) simply so we can play video games...

 

[alextheblue]

AMDfangirl: They are going to have dedicated cloud servers in every region, including Australia. If you get a 200ms ping to Australian servers, you have bigger issues.
MMOs have been doing this for years. Lots of stuff gets processed server-side. You could easily take the burden of things like AI and physics off the local system (doesn't even require much bandwidth), to let it concentrate on things that can't be easily streamed. It's not as useful for single player or offline games, but it's completely optional and up to the devs what (if anything) they do with it. You could choose "both", and build your game so it has a fallback mode when you lose your internet.
But frankly this is a good thing, especially for online games. If the game is hosted on Azure instead of on someone's console, you could have huge 64, 128, 256 player maps for shooters no problem. It's like having unlimited dedicated servers available, even for a random matchup with a bunch of people who chose "quick match" or something.
So while some are quick to see the downsides, there are positives too. Frankly, I haven't played a game on PC where I haven't been connected to broadband for a long time. Steam is downloading a game right now. It's about time MS and Sony start to get their cloud gaming plans off the ground, before they Google, Valve, or someone else swoops in.

 

[dogofwars]

Wow I can see some clients calling us complaining of really high bandwidth charge :|

 

[Steven Walker]

I can see all kinds of latency issues. Just ask anyone who does sound processing, then multiply that times numerous switches & internet connections.

 

[JimmiG]

Doesn't sound realistic. XBox 360 has sold 77 million units. If the XBox One sells in the same numbers, they'll need the processing power of hundreds of millions of XBoxes in their data centers. If these servers are going to do number crunching at 3x the performance of the AMD APU in the XBox for each user, there won't be room for a lot of users per server, so they'll still need tens of millions of severs. For comparison, it seems Google had *1 million servers* in 2008...

 

[JimmiG]

Doesn't sound realistic. XBox 360 has sold 77 million units. If the XBox One sells in the same numbers, they'll need the processing power of hundreds of millions of XBoxes in their data centers. If these servers are going to do number crunching at 3x the performance of the AMD APU in the XBox for each user, there won't be room for a lot of users per server, so they'll still need tens of millions of severs. For comparison, it seems Google had *1 million servers* in 2008...

 

[Raheel Hasan]

How a 2mbps connection can handle that. MS should explain in detail

 

[ahmedomran]

How a 2mbps connection can handle that. MS should explain in detail

Its not about the Bandwidth .. Its the latency & the permanent internet connectivity.

 

[nikolajj]

Ups and downs with everything. At least this gives the Xbox a future

 

[FAMDUCK]

AMDfangirl: They are going to have dedicated cloud servers in every region, including Australia. If you get a 200ms ping to Australian servers, you have bigger issues.
MMOs have been doing this for years. Lots of stuff gets processed server-side. You could easily take the burden of things like AI and physics off the local system (doesn't even require much bandwidth), to let it concentrate on things that can't be easily streamed. It's not as useful for single player or offline games, but it's completely optional and up to the devs what (if anything) they do with it. You could choose "both", and build your game so it has a fallback mode when you lose your internet.
But frankly this is a good thing, especially for online games. If the game is hosted on Azure instead of on someone's console, you could have huge 64, 128, 256 player maps for shooters no problem. It's like having unlimited dedicated servers available, even for a random matchup with a bunch of people who chose "quick match" or something.
So while some are quick to see the downsides, there are positives too. Frankly, I haven't played a game on PC where I haven't been connected to broadband for a long time. Steam is downloading a game right now. It's about time MS and Sony start to get their cloud gaming plans off the ground, before they Google, Valve, or someone else swoops in.

If they were just doing physics or map hosting, why would they boast that each Xbox One has the equivalent of 3 Xbox Ones in the cloud. To do "simple" and "low bandwidth" stuff like that, they wouldn't need 3x the power on their side to do it.

 

[drbaltazar]

ok ill elaborate a bit more just In can it wasn't a troll!the way they do this:they will remote compress this whole thing!basicly only what change will be computed!its hard to explain since nobody ever bothered to try understanding how remote differential compression works!there are a lot of stuff involved here!but I can say this:this will be surprisingly easy to do for ms!but remember this,everything is rendered on the console .nothing or almost none will be rendered on server.but by the console not having to do these calculation ,ms can buffer these a cache these etc.why you think ms mothered putting 8 gb of ram in a console!to stare at it!those ram will work like no ram ever worked before!this is why they re going at it this way!i doubt there is quad channel ram .last I checked amd wasn't that advanced!and yes for this to work the console need to be online live .otherwise you ll get player killing you and you wont be able to see them etc!if I simplify it?ms has their version of the game live you have your version of the game live and you update ms and they update you ,so if you are say at coordinate 3.3.3 and5 second later you are at 5.5.5 server update itself calculate required graphic data etc and send it to your xbox one for processing.also not everything is updated around you.only what pertain to you.at server end its different!donnybrook was made to update only what you see 5 character.since this was 6 years or so ago .I bet ms had plenty of time to r&d this to death!hopefully this cleared some confusion!it isn't exactly what ms is doing since azure probably has a huge say here but it give a basic understanding

 

[Raheel Hasan]

How a 2mbps connection can handle that. MS should explain in detail

Its not about the Bandwidth .. Its the latency & the permanent internet connectivity.

They say they will offload the graphics calculations to the cloud which means transfer of heavy data during games. It looks like games will have huge delays

 

[genz]

ok ill elaborate a bit more just In can it wasn't a troll!the way they do this:they will remote compress this whole thing!basicly only what change will be computed!its hard to explain since nobody ever bothered to try understanding how remote differential compression works!there are a lot of stuff involved here!but I can say this:this will be surprisingly easy to do for ms!but remember this,everything is rendered on the console .nothing or almost none will be rendered on server.but by the console not having to do these calculation ,ms can buffer these a cache these etc.why you think ms mothered putting 8 gb of ram in a console!to stare at it!those ram will work like no ram ever worked before!this is why they re going at it this way!i doubt there is quad channel ram .last I checked amd wasn't that advanced!and yes for this to work the console need to be online live .otherwise you ll get player killing you and you wont be able to see them etc!if I simplify it?ms has their version of the game live you have your version of the game live and you update ms and they update you ,so if you are say at coordinate 3.3.3 and5 second later you are at 5.5.5 server update itself calculate required graphic data etc and send it to your xbox one for processing.also not everything is updated around you.only what pertain to you.at server end its different!donnybrook was made to update only what you see 5 character.since this was 6 years or so ago .I bet ms had plenty of time to r&d this to death!hopefully this cleared some confusion!it isn't exactly what ms is doing since azure probably has a huge say here but it give a basic understanding

You can do all the RDC and delta updating of the memory space over the wire you want but put it this way. Once you add the latency of the connection, the could is several hundred times slower, in fact it's not even anywhere as fast as one Xbox One, else your XBO would be a tiny little Blu Ray player right now that did all it's game processing in the cloud.

Face it, your argument is as weak as your understanding of the technology involved. Even 1ms latency gives you only 13 more ms to render a frame. External graphics cards on laptops face latency issues, how the hell is something in the middle of your country going to power your device?