Microsoft Explains Why to Buy Surface Instead of iPad

[safcmanfr]

Suface 2 (RT) is pointless. You can get an 8" Atom (4th gen) powered Windows 8.1 tablet for $400, why would you get an RT powered device?

However, I fully agree with MS that the iPad, Air or otherwise, is defunct now when compared to Windozs 8.1 devices (not Suface specifically). Why bother with a iOS or Android tablet when you have a full range of devices running windows 8.1 starting from $400 to $1500, 8" to 13" screens, with a full range of other hardware choices?

Andriod remains interesting on the 7" side, due to the low $250 price point for Nexus 7 etc, but iOS is dead. They just dont know it yet.

 

[back_by_demand]

iPads have 475,000 of the 1 million iOS apps. That is pretty impressive. Whereas Win8.1 only has the 6.5 million programs previously released for x86 on top of the paltry 100,000 Marketplace apps.

 

[JD88]

Suface 2 (RT) is pointless. You can get an 8" Atom (4th gen) powered Windows 8.1 tablet for $400, why would you get an RT powered device?

However, I fully agree with MS that the iPad, Air or otherwise, is defunct now when compared to Windozs 8.1 devices (not Suface specifically). Why bother with a iOS or Android tablet when you have a full range of devices running windows 8.1 starting from $400 to $1500, 8" to 13" screens, with a full range of other hardware choices?

Andriod remains interesting on the 7" side, due to the low $250 price point for Nexus 7 etc, but iOS is dead. They just dont know it yet.

Agreed on RT, it has no reason to exist.

However, I don't think Windows devices compare favorably to similarly priced iOS and Android devices. Here's why:

Windows is bloated. iOS and Android run much better on low power chips and require less RAM and a lot less disk space.

Windows also has no clear advantage over either platform in a tablet form factor. One might argue Office, but offerings from Apple and Google are fine for the needs of the average consumer. Tablets are used primarily for content consumption and Window's doesn't do that any better at all. If MS offers office on iOS and Android, the reason for Windows to exist on tablets at all becomes nil.

The desktop application advantage is present, but I don't think it matters to the vast majority of customers. Are people really playing high end PC games and using Photoshop on a <10" tablet? It certainly doesn't make up for the app or performance deficit.

Having "full Windows 8.1" on a tablet is exactly what people don't want. That's why they buy iOS and Android in the first place, they are way simpler and work better than their Windows PC.

I can't tell you the number of times I hear someone say "Why can't my laptop be fast and simple like my iPad?"

Microsoft needs to start from scratch and dump fatboy Frankenstein 8.1

Make a desktop OS for desktops and notebooks and make a mobile OS for phones and tablets. One OS fits all is fail unless it scales like Ubuntu and that only works because Ubuntu is lightweight to begin with.

 

[Vladimir83]

Suface 2 (RT) is pointless. You can get an 8" Atom (4th gen) powered Windows 8.1 tablet for $400, why would you get an RT powered device?

However, I fully agree with MS that the iPad, Air or otherwise, is defunct now when compared to Windozs 8.1 devices (not Suface specifically). Why bother with a iOS or Android tablet when you have a full range of devices running windows 8.1 starting from $400 to $1500, 8" to 13" screens, with a full range of other hardware choices?

Andriod remains interesting on the 7" side, due to the low $250 price point for Nexus 7 etc, but iOS is dead. They just dont know it yet.

Agreed on RT, it has no reason to exist.

However, I don't think Windows devices compare favorably to similarly priced iOS and Android devices. Here's why:

Windows is bloated. iOS and Android run much better on low power chips and require less RAM and a lot less disk space.

Windows also has no clear advantage over either platform in a tablet form factor. One might argue Office, but offerings from Apple and Google are fine for the needs of the average consumer. Tablets are used primarily for content consumption and Window's doesn't do that any better at all. If MS offers office on iOS and Android, the reason for Windows to exist on tablets at all becomes nil.

The desktop application advantage is present, but I don't think it matters to the vast majority of customers. Are people really playing high end PC games and using Photoshop on a <10" tablet? It certainly doesn't make up for the app or performance deficit.

Having "full Windows 8.1" on a tablet is exactly what people don't want. That's why they buy iOS and Android in the first place, they are way simpler and work better than their Windows PC.

I can't tell you the number of times I hear someone say "Why can't my laptop be fast and simple like my iPad?"

Microsoft needs to start from scratch and dump fatboy Frankenstein 8.1

Make a desktop OS for desktops and notebooks and make a mobile OS for phones and tablets. One OS fits all is fail unless it scales like Ubuntu and that only works because Ubuntu is lightweight to begin with.

Although generally i agree with you,good portion of the users are discriminated today.Not everyone is "average Joe" sitting with its own iPad while sipping latte at Starbucks.
Because of that in my former post i said "to put an end to the phone-ish OSes of today",coz let it face it android&ios are great when it comes to smartphones but their tablet version is just the same "upscaled version" with rudimentary (or none) capabilities.
I think that MS knowed this from the start,but in their manner was fooling around with 8.0&8.1 and making stunts with RT.
So my point is:why not third option?why not CISC x86 tablets and x86 OS?
Technology is here,form factor also,time to learn on others mistakes too.I know that they will never sway average Joe or Jane,but large percentage of people know to appreciate full blown OS....so MS should give the shot and time will tell who"s right and who"s no.

 

[Fredrik Aldhagen]

There are CISC x86 tablets... Problem is they're either underperforming (Intel Atom-based ones) or expensive (i5 like the Surface Pro)

 

[back_by_demand]

JD88, I understand that Photoshop on a tablet is not ideal, but before sweeping away the relevance of x86 programs using that one example surely even you could think of at least 10 killer x86 programs which would be good on a mobile device. Even without those, this thread has a list of games playable at medium settings, each of which could be called "killer" titles and Surface Pro 1 and 2 are better than the graphics from then

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/127129-13-what-games-intel-graphics-card

 

[HiTekMuppet]

Surface Pro is with x86 Windows 8/8.1 is in a different league to Surface, iPad, and Android tabs. I was waiting for something like that and I got it soon after release. For productivity and consumption, Windows is light years ahead of Android and iOS. The weight doesn't bother me at all but the battery life remains a big con. Intel's Bay Trail processors have led to some inexpensive Windows (32-bit) tabs that, at least to me, still make more sense than iOS/Android but not powerful enough for demanding desktop applications.

I got the original iPad when it came out and upgraded to the New iPad (i.e 3) after a couple of years which was hardly an upgrad, owned Acer A500, Asus Transformer Infinity, and Nexus 7. I have used all of those extensively and I'm not irrationally partial towards any of the companies involved.

Tablets for gaming is still a no go. I haven't tried Razer Edge tablet though and it looks interesting. As things stand, there's very little difference between the ARM tablets and it's a matter of preference/marketing/cool factor for most folks.

 

[back_by_demand]

Tablets for gaming is still a no go.

Apart from this list in the link immediately above your comment:-

Batman arkham city -play at medium settings
call of duty mw 3-play at medium settings
call of duty black ops 2-play at medium settings
crysis 1,2-play at low settings
bioshock infinite-play at low to medium settings
devil may cry 5-play at low to medium settings
dishonoured-play at medium settings
nfs hot pursuit-play at medium settings
nfs the run-play at medium settings
hitman absolution-play at medium settings
max payne 3-play at medium settings
prototype 2-play at high settings
mass effect 2-play at medium
mass effect 3-play at medium settings
tomb raider-play at medium settings at 1280*720
the walking dead-play at medium settings
Assassins creed 1,2,3-play at low to medium settings
borderlands 2-play at medium settings
farcry 3-play at low settings at 1280*720
battlefield bad componey 2-play at medium settings
portal 2-play at medium settings
rage-play at medium settings
grid 2-play at low settings at 800*600
tomb raider-play at low settings
farcry blood dragon-play at low settings
dead space 3-play at medium settings

Yeah, tablets aren't for gaming, but a Surface Pro is the exception to that particular rule

 

[dthx]

The RT is probably the most useless thing I've seen. By that, I mean... it's at least as useless than an Android or iOS tablet I've owned. It's fine for coach surfing, watching videos, playing games, e-mailing,... but it's quite useless for business purpose.
I always ended up having to carry my notebook or a cheap netbook on holiday because a certain VPN client or some business critical tailor made windows applications were not available for the mobile platform.
With a surface pro, I can have all applications currently running on my laptop, and Lightroom / Photoshop /... to process pictures on the go, in a nice compact form factor . As a bonus, it's even faster than most company laptops (because many are still not SSD equiped).
Why I don't own one yet has to do with the price. It's worth it but the premium for a 256 of 512Mb version is prohibitive. Buying a cheapo 128Gb version to upgrade later myself with a bigger m-sata SSD can't be done without seriously risking of damaging it, so I'll wait until a competitor like ASUS or Lenovo proposes a similar tablet (FullHD, i5 or i7, 8Gb RAM), but with affordable (or user upgradable) storage.
I think that the Surface Pro 2 pricing has to be somehow inaccurate, to enable Microsoft to keep decent relations with their OEM's like Lenovo, Acer, Asus, etc... It's more there to proof to the public how good a tablet equipped with Windows 8.1 pro can be...

 

[dthx]

The RT is probably the most useless thing I've seen. By that, I mean... it's at least as useless than an Android or iOS tablet I've owned. It's fine for coach surfing, watching videos, playing games, e-mailing,... but it's quite useless for business purpose.
I always ended up having to carry my notebook or a cheap netbook on holiday because a certain VPN client or some business critical tailor made windows applications were not available for the mobile platform.
With a surface pro, I can have all applications currently running on my laptop, and Lightroom / Photoshop /... to process pictures on the go, in a nice compact form factor . As a bonus, it's even faster than most company laptops (because many are still not SSD equiped).
Why I don't own one yet has to do with the price. It's worth it but the premium for a 256 of 512Mb version is prohibitive. Buying a cheapo 128Gb version to upgrade later myself with a bigger m-sata SSD can't be done without seriously risking of damaging it, so I'll wait until a competitor like ASUS or Lenovo proposes a similar tablet (FullHD, i5 or i7, 8Gb RAM), but with affordable (or user upgradable) storage.
I think that the Surface Pro 2 pricing has to be somehow inaccurate, to enable Microsoft to keep decent relations with their OEM's like Lenovo, Acer, Asus, etc... It's more there to proof to the public how good a tablet equipped with Windows 8.1 pro can be...

 

[HiTekMuppet]

@back_by_demand

I'm well aware of Intel HD4000's gaming capability. In fact, I was frequently checking out a YouTube channel (SurfaceProGaming) where the guy tests many games on Surface Pro and labels them Surface Certified if they are playable on it.

My point has two do with two setbacks:

- Lack of controller: most of the games require mouse/keyboard or controllers to be playable which defeats the purpose of a tablet's portability. That is why I mentioned Razor Edge, which is similar to Surface but with a smart input scheme. I didn't have any luck connecting my DualShock 3 controller to surface via Motioninjoy wirelessly without a USB bluetooth dongle.

- Heat: I remember an article somewhere asking why Microsoft does not promote Surface Pro's gaming capabilities which trounces iOS/Android's mostly flash games. They concluded that it's probably due to the heat generated. Surface idles at 40-50°C and quickly gets to 60-70°C during light work. With most of the games it gets to 80°C after which it throttles the CPU/GPU to keep it at that level. I might be off by a few degrees, but you get the idea.
Since there are many components in a small, poorly-ventilated area, I did not play games for prolonged periods and risk damage and/or decreasing the lifespan of the components. The tablet is diabolically difficult to repair.

So you're right in that Surface Pro runs games that make iOS/Android look like toys in comparison, but lack of proper and comfortable controls (some strategy games are playable with touch input) combined with the heat issue remain an obstacle in my opinion.

 

[back_by_demand]

HiTek, have you not been able to connect via the inbuilt bluetooth for the controller? Even if not, surely a mouse to go with the Type keyboard should cover any gaming requirements. USB shouldn't be an issue either as you should just be able to plug on in the side of the Surface. As far as heat I think Surface Pro 1 may have issue, but the Surface Pro 2 with Haswell should be able to mitigate any of those issues.

 

[JD88]

JD88, I understand that Photoshop on a tablet is not ideal, but before sweeping away the relevance of x86 programs using that one example surely even you could think of at least 10 killer x86 programs which would be good on a mobile device. Even without those, this thread has a list of games playable at medium settings, each of which could be called "killer" titles and Surface Pro 1 and 2 are better than the graphics from then

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/127129-13-what-games-intel-graphics-card

No, you and I agree here back. In fact, this is the exact reason why I argue against Win RT in its current form. Take advantage of the software that is available for the platform.

My comment was in response to someone who said now that Win 8 tablets are available, everything else was obsolete. That's simply not true for the reasons I listed.

 

[back_by_demand]

If anything has been made obselete by the Surface Pro, the highest casualty is surely Surface RT, if all it was created for was bandwagon of low power ARM chips the should just have stood the Surface Pro 1 by itself for the first gen, then built up through gens 2, 3, etc - all RT has done is drain a billion dollars away from a mature platform and a good idea

 

[therogerwilco]

The Surface Pro 2 rocks compared to the first gen.

 

[stratplaya]

Microsoft needs better marketing. The first Surface campaign just featured a bunch of hipsters dancing around. What the hell is that? How does that tell the market your product is better?

 

[stevejnb]

Microsoft needs better marketing. The first Surface campaign just featured a bunch of hipsters dancing around. What the hell is that? How does that tell the market your product is better?

Maybe. On the other hand, do you remember Apple's iPod/iTunes ad campaign? It had a bunch of black silhouettes of people dancing around on bright colour backgrounds with stark colour iPods plugged into their heads. At the same time, there were dozens of other cheaper, equally or more functional MP3 players on the market, some of which had been there longer. Apple's ad campaign said little to nothing about their product or why it was better. This was also before the iPad, the iPhone, or even the iPod touch - in short, before Apple became freakishly popular. In no time flat, the iPod touch was the top MP3 player on the market.

If only advertising were so simple as "show them why our product is better and let them flock to us"...

 

[jn77]

For $300 more, I can get an entry level Alienware m14x. Why waste the money on a restricted Surface Pro. If they can sell a loaded Surface Pro 2 under $499, then I might try it.

 

[Fredrik Aldhagen]

Surface Pro is not restricted. It runs Windows 8 and people have been able to install Linux and even OS X (unofficially of course) on it.

As for Alienware m14x versus Surface Pro, one is a laptop and the other is a tablet...

 

[godnodog]

"The good news is that Microsoft understands how people work better than anyone else on the planet."

And this is where Microsoft lost me.....

 

[bystander]

"The good news is that Microsoft understands how people work better than anyone else on the planet."

And this is where Microsoft lost me.....

Considering that in the vast majority of businesses of the world, Microsoft is the OS people use, that statement should be pretty accurate.

 

[rishiswaz]

microsoft makes such a big deal about the surface having office but they put a ton of restrictions on it. I wanted to get a few surfaces for my business until I found out Microsoft doesn't allow the Office that comes on the surface to be used for business. At least Apples iWork doesn't have the restrictions.

Where did you read that, if you were buying for your work you would get Surface Pros

 

[Fredrik Aldhagen]

Though, if you're getting a device for business, you're better off getting a proper laptop over a tablet.

 

[godnodog]

Quote: Considering that in the vast majority of businesses of the world, Microsoft is the OS people use, that statement should be pretty accurate.

To Bystander,
I maintain my comment, I disagree with Microsoft stating that they listen what their costumers want, but I also know that they have a R&D just for this things, and regardless of not enjoying the "easier to use" changes that they apply, at the end I still like their products and use them, but I also recognize that I am basically forced to used Windows (for example).

 

[Vladimir83]

Microsoft needs better marketing. The first Surface campaign just featured a bunch of hipsters dancing around. What the hell is that? How does that tell the market your product is better?

Maybe. On the other hand, do you remember Apple's iPod/iTunes ad campaign? It had a bunch of black silhouettes of people dancing around on bright colour backgrounds with stark colour iPods plugged into their heads. At the same time, there were dozens of other cheaper, equally or more functional MP3 players on the market, some of which had been there longer. Apple's ad campaign said little to nothing about their product or why it was better. This was also before the iPad, the iPhone, or even the iPod touch - in short, before Apple became freakishly popular. In no time flat, the iPod touch was the top MP3 player on the market.

If only advertising were so simple as "show them why our product is better and let them flock to us"...

It wasn't TV ad that flock the people into Apple"s iPod.
It were tech sites,news papers and reviews(of all kind) who were buzzing around how "revolutionary" was the jog dial .People were buying not for sound quality or battery life,but for some over hyped "technology revolution".
If nothing else Steve Job knowed how to sell "hot air" to the masses :/