Microsoft Extends Windows 10 Features With Desktop Bridge

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Move to Windows 10 and lose all other Windows platforms. This is Microsoft attempt to save Windows Store for failure in other words who needs UWP garbage?
 

tburns1

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So I may have missed it ...can you take existing, older windows programs and make them work on Windows 10? I'm talking binaries now, not source code and then a rebuild.
 

ohim

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You do realise that win32 applications are kinda outdated... at some point you have to evolve even if you piss off people who want compatibility from DOS 6.22 to Windows 10.

I don`t see the Store as a failure at all. Imagine the mobile world without a Store just like PCs are now, having to google "best fps game android" and then find millions of websites claming the best, without any real user reviews and tons of websites with adds on them with several Download buttons that run silent installers on your Phone.

That`s old and outdated, the Store is the way to go, the only issues here are that people like Tim Sweeney from EPIC games are shouting that MS wants to block Steam and that they want a monopoly... well at this point Steam is kinda a monopoly and he`s just fine with that .. we have Origin and UPlay but those are almost non-existent.

The real grudge is the % that MS gets from each sale on their Store, and people who pirate games / applications, from my knowledge Windows has the power to disable apps that are part from the Store but are pirated.
 
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Win32 is not outdated. UWP doesn't offer a squat in performance and feature wise. This whole converter is just repackaging Win32 and it has nothing to do with concept of UWP in other words only reason for it is for MS to save Windows Store, seems no one cares about.
 

jacklongley

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"For the first time, you will be able to use the Linux Bash command on Windows."

Patently false. Bash has been available on Windows via Cygwin since 1996.
 

bloodroses

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Win32 can only on an OS level address 4 gigs of memory (shared with the video card), with a single program able to use 1.75 gig of it at most. The only way around this is through Physical Addressing Extensions which is a software hack that swaps out pages of memory at a time inside the 4 gig limit. This applies to the OS only as apps still have to stay within that 1.75 gig limit.

32 bit programs ran on 64 bit versions of windows run through an emulator called 'wow64'. This was the same kind of thing Microsoft had to do back in the days when they used to support 16 bit programs during their switch to Windows 95 (which was 32 bit). To run anything through an emulator will always provide some form of performance penalty; even minor.

Win32 applications at this point are most definitely outdated; especially vs their Win64 counterparts.


As with UWP, the idea behind that is to create a unified environment (API) where the underlying hardware no longer matters (much like java). The biggest advantage I can see to this is that an Win32 app can be easily converted to run on other devices; including ARM based ones (tablets, phones, etc). The obvious disadvantage though is the performance hit due to non optimization/specialization; which the article already addresses. This may not be their smartest move as the only other OS setup like this, Android, runs like garbage for apps that rely on real-time metrics.
 

Mikecappy

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Windows 10 automatically installed on my computer without my permission. It has compromise my system because come to find out my computer is not compatible with Win10. I am looking for a class action law suit to join. Anyone with any thoughts woul be helpful.
 

bloodroses

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http://www.pcworld.com/article/3088755/windows/a-lawsuit-over-an-unwanted-windows-10-upgrade-just-cost-microsoft-10000.html

https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/27/microsoft-sued-for-10-000-after-unwanted-windows-10-upgrade/

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/upgrade-10-class-action-lawsuit/cd4bfca3-e297-479a-a7fd-94bdf765dcc9?auth=1

There are plenty more related articles from the google search, these were just the top 3 I grabbed. The search I used was "windows 10 automatic update lawsuit"
 

ravewulf

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The memory limits and PAE stuff you mention only apply to 32 bit Windows. 32 bit programs running on 64 bit Windows are able to make use of up to 4 GB.

I've seen Win32 used to refer to the Windows API in general regardless of if the program is actually 32 bit or 64 bit, so the distinctions you make between Win32 and Win64 are not necessarily relevant and Win32/the Windows API is not outdated.

WoW64 is not an emulator (unless you're on an Itanium version of Windows), it is a lightweight compatibility layer that switches the CPU between 32 and 64 bit modes. So instead of converting all the instructions to run on a 64 bit CPU, it just tells the CPU to use the 32 bit instructions natively.
 

bit_user

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Yeah, and I've been using it since about then. If/when I run Win10, I'll try installing the Ubuntu/Windows packages as an alternative to Cygwin/X, but I wouldn't be surprised to find myself sticking with what works.

I just wish Cygwin's installer & package management were better. And that the runtime libraries weren't GPL'd (LGPL would be fine, but GPL means you cannot link Cygwin libraries from binary-only commercial products).
 

falchard

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This is a good move for business markets. It allows them to migrate their hardware from 2004 HP desktops with little hitch converting their in-house programs that are locked to Win XP or something like that. Imagine replacing all your old PCs in the work environment with $200 15w towers or... phones. Massive monthly energy savings, increased user workspace, reduced cooling bills.
 

memadmax

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Waiting for Win11...
Absolutely hate the Win8/10 UI even with its so called rollback to "Start"...

Not buying the DX12 excuse to get Win10...
Not gonna contribute to the demise of freedom as MS moved to a closed garden system just like Apple with the app store, kaby lake BS etc etc...

No Microshaft. I might just convert to Crapple gear to thumb my nose at you bill gates....
 

jimmysmitty

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Probably wont be a Windows 11.

UIs are all perceptive. To each their own. Some people still prefer the old Windows 98/2K UI. Some like XP. I think XP now looks like a kids program from the 90s but that's just me.

DX12 is meh. It will eventually benefit games but not for another few years. That's not the reason to get 10. I wont list them as you made up your mind.

A closed garden system? What do you mean? Every single program that installs to Windows 7 also can still install to 10. UWP is not walling anything off, it is just Microsofts attempt at a better store, one that is easier for devs and works on all platforms. I have seen no attempt by Microsoft to close Steam or any other platform out.

Moving to Apple would be worse. Talk about closed off, you can't even truly build your own system with them.

I love how Microsoft tries to make things easier and give a more universal experience, something no one has done yet, for all their devices and everyone acts as if they are trying to monopolize everything.
 

Karadjgne

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I have plenty of older x86 programs, just as many x64. They all work. Did have issues with Realtemp, but an upgrade there to an x64 based program solved that. The only other issue I've had with Win10Pro not running a program was an older series of games requiring DX9. Like that was a hard fix. Can't really see what the big deal over this new windows fix is.
 

hst101rox

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I am almost petrified! Now they have an excuse to make everything an 'app' Argh!

That is quite an accomplishment. x86 binary to app code. It is quite a feat, convert software from one language to another on the fly.... Quite the wizardry. Wonder if this will be refined to work with more x86 programs rather than ones than match the requirements (whatever they may be). Able to convert .net programs or just straight win32 x86? ATL, MFC, CRL??

Imagine running full fledged trading software on your ARM tablet (sluggishly I bet) and whatever else u can think of. Platform agnostic.

This must have been years and years of research in the making.
 

Nergo Pthycc

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I'll admit to being a little out of date with Windows 10 recent improvements. I chose not to obtain the free upgrade on my Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 computers (even on the new one I constructed earlier this year I installed Windows 7) mostly because I wanted to retain and share all my Windows Media Center recordings. I understood at that time, I would lose WMC if I chose to upgrade to Windows 10.
So, has there been a way to put WMC into Windows 10 (reliably, from Microsoft, not a hack)?
 

wifiburger

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garbage from Microsoft, their windows 10 / store and whole ecosystem as no relevance today or next year,

it's going to get abandoned soon and will be trashed by them when trying to sell their next software scam
 

Zapin

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I like Windows 10 just fine. It runs my old stuff and new stuff without issues for me so far. UWP is another story. DX12 has not shown its advantages as yet and UWP programs so far have proven themselves to be worse than their Windows x32/x64 counterparts. Perhaps in the future it will get better and porting console games to UWP may become a trivial process with quality results but that is not what we are seeing now.

There is zero advantage that I can see for anybody to convert anything already Win32/Win64 to UWP other than giving MS their cut and the stronger control over the distribution and use of their products.
 

Karadjgne

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I seriously doubt that the store and its apps will go away and die. Say thank you to Apple and Google. Used to be, a cell phone was just that, a phone, but nowadays it's more of a portable pc than anything related to a phone and it's entirely app driven. So how does Microsoft get ppl to go back to using the big, ungainly pc? Give them something they recognize, make windows usage not much different from cell phones, tie the two together with cross-platform software and get app happy. How many back in DOS days understood how to get a game to work, optimizing ram usage, saving files, playing with exe's, bulletin boards and ip addresses? Not that many. Then came windows95 and now anyone could use a pc to look up recipes, talk to friends on social media, post pictures, play games. And now Windows is linking all those older files in a universal compatibility, so not only will old stuff work, but their cell phone just became an extension of the pc, app based. It's really the final movement in what Microsoft started all those years ago when it brought 95 to life and stole Apple's idea of a Windows app based platform.
 

alextheblue

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False. You're stuck in the past AND you're looking at it from the point of view of a nerd. Distribution is actually BETTER and more familiar when looking at average users. My mom was considering an iPad solely because it's "easy to use like her iPhone". I got her a capable touchscreen laptop with Win10. Now she can snag apps like Netflix, Hulu, Kindle, etc easily and safely. She uses the heck out of the touchscreen but still appreciates the proper keyboard. I haven't had to act as tech support since - no more "I was looking for such and such "app" and clicked on a link" mess.

There's other advantages too. Cleaner installation and removal - the apps are self-contained. They can also be moved to other drives post-installation easily (this is useful on phones/tablets especially with SD cards). UWP supports touchscreen and multiple form factors MUCH better than Win32. For example using the same app on Windows 10 with a mouse, touchscreen laptop/tablet, phone, or XB1. You can build all that support into one app, along with on-the-fly UI changes for Continuum. Then there's the cross platform support and forward compatibility. UWP supports non-x86 architectures - it already works on ARM phones, and in future once there's enough UWP apps available they could port full Win10 to ARM or whatever architecture in the future. Otherwise there's Xamarin etc to share codebase amongst multiple platforms.

Win32 programs by comparison are not great on touchscreen devices (which no, are not a fad). Win32 is outdated and not well suited to a lot of modern programs. Not to mention that Win32 applications are often so far from forward-compatible as to break every major revision. UWP mitigates the vast majority of these problems. I don't understand how people can be so diehard anti-UWP when this sort of system is where ALL the major platforms are headed. UWP is much more modern and forward-thinking and in some form or another is here to stay. If it makes you feel better call them Programs instead of apps and call the Store "Software Repository". That fixes most hangups right there.
 

Karadjgne

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I have no Spyware on my Win10Pro that I know of, I use Bing not Google and there's a switch to shutdown the store, can also use this nice little WinAero program that does a lot of little things that tend to be hard to find. I still prefer win7, find it easier to navigate and do things, but I can appreciate the automation win10 is trying to bring out.
 

thor220

Splendid


Just because something is old does not make it bad, just look at the 3.5mm headphone jack. Or how about the razor blade? Or how about bread? Some things don't need to change because they are already good enough.

If that's your only point against non UWP software, you don't make a very convincing argument, especially when you yourself state that Microsoft takes a cut of every sale. What you also neglected to mention is that Microsoft has complete control over the windows store. Yeah, it's not like Microsoft will abuse that power..........oh, wait, I almost forgot. Most PC users hate Microsoft because they frequently abuse their monopoly status. If the Windows 10 upgrade malware didn't give you an idea of how strong-armed Microsoft wants to be I don't know what will.
 
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