News Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 sucks up to 180 Mb/s of internet bandwidth while in flight — equivalent to 81GB of data per hour

bit_user

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Does the game cache this stuff locally? It's hard to see how this could be economically viable for MS, if it can always use that much bandwidth, whenever anyone plays.

Not to mention the fact that most of us don't have that much real-world bandwidth.

BTW, I thought fractal-based compression was supposed to be a huge win for compression of things like terrain datasets. I wonder how clever they are about that sort of thing.

Another trick would be if they could use a generative AI model for terrain compression & synthesis. Okay, it wouldn't be so great if you want picture-perfect accuracy, but if you just wanted a plausible terrain that looks similar to where you're flying, then I'll bet it'd be convincing.
 
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Nov 3, 2023
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Does the game cache this stuff locally? It's hard to see how this could be economically viable for MS, if it can always use that much bandwidth, whenever anyone plays.

Not to mention the fact that most of us don't have that much real-world bandwidth.

BTW, I thought fractal-based compression was supposed to be a huge win for compression of things like terrain datasets. I wonder how clever they are about that sort of thing.

Another trick would be if they could use a generative AI model for terrain compression & synthesis. Okay, it wouldn't be so great if you want picture-perfect accuracy, but if you just wanted a plausible terrain that looks similar to where you're flying, then I'll bet it'd be convincing.

I think they already use some gen AI in FS 2020 in the lower-bandwidth areas- the peaks are definitely for places that require photogrammetry
 
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Aug 8, 2024
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Seems expected if nothing else - people complain about large install sizes, get data streamed in. Same crowd complains about that.
 
Aug 8, 2024
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Detailed modeling of the entire planet IS a lot of data.
Which is why it is insane that people are complaining. Either you have a local copy of the data taking up lots of space, or that data is streamed in as needed, which'll be a burden on your internet connection. That's the trade-off. Oh and I suppose if Microsoft used even more compression on assets, there'd be more overhead with unpacking the data and then people would be complaining about how their PC lags.
 

OneMoreUser

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most ISP in states have data caps (usually 1.2TB)...this game would actually let you hit that cap every month and thats ignoring any other data usage..
That is bad. If there is enough demand, then surely ISP's will change their offerings.

Over here, Denmark, I never had a wired home connection with a data cap and it is not even something I have considered. Mobile data connections is different, but only those with the cheap subscription plans.

Now 1.2 TB is a good load of data, but just streaming services especially in a family setting will use a load of data - especially with services like Sony Bravia Core that uses like 120 Mb/s peak and 80 Mb/s sustained when you watch a movie.

I think it is a good think that Microsoft sets the bar high, likely the bandwidth requirements will be lower with the release version or at the very least flying with a lower data usage will be supported.
 
That is bad. If there is enough demand, then surely ISP's will change their offerings.

Over here, Denmark, I never had a wired home connection with a data cap and it is not even something I have considered. Mobile data connections is different, but only those with the cheap subscription plans.

Now 1.2 TB is a good load of data, but just streaming services especially in a family setting will use a load of data - especially with services like Sony Bravia Core that uses like 120 Mb/s peak and 80 Mb/s sustained when you watch a movie.

I think it is a good think that Microsoft sets the bar high, likely the bandwidth requirements will be lower with the release version or at the very least flying with a lower data usage will be supported.
ISP's in the US won't change a thing but charge you $30 more a month for an extra 1 TB of data while still capped.

We mostly have uncapped connections here in canada also I can't really see anyone playing this on a data capped connection.
 

abufrejoval

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My problems started the minute M$ tried to imply that you'd be able to explore the world with FS, not just flying.

Because that was a lie for many releases, very eggregiously for 2020 and there is zero chance it will change for the 2024 variant.

Because Microsoft simply doesn't have the data.

Modern computers might finally have the power to render a rather good digital twin of the outside real world from inside a virtual cockpit, but again, Microsoft doesn't have the data.

I finally have enough computing horse power to have a plane take off from one of Europe's biggest airport far too few kilometers from my home and fly it over my house. I have a dual 2k VR headset rendering at maximum settings with 90FPS on an RTX 4090 driven by a 7950X3D, but what I see is garbage!

Really, really bad garbage rendered at high quality in smooth motion.

Because M$ doesn't have the data, it invents it. But it does so very, very badly, generating buildings from coarse and outdated bitmaps which have nothing to do with how things really look.

It has some pre-coneptions about how buildings should look and they are extremely generic, not even primary school, more like Kindergarten but with straight lines. And then they run traffic along roads, again a completely generic mix of vehicles, with trucks obviously pasted from the US: did nobody ever tell them that 99.99% of trucks in Europe mount their engines below the cab? Or that not every house looks like an Hamburg harbor storage building from the end of the 19th century?

And they have them look the same in Germany, France and Southern Spain, when very clearly styles differ dramatically and for good reasons.

And then some of those roads are actually rivers or blind alleys you shouldn't try to drive into. Traffic follows logical patterns, but clearly the generator is just randomizing.

Inventing bad fiction when you have no data kills realism very, very quickly and knowing how badly it represents home, it can't do much better anywhere else, can it?

So what's the purpose of "going everywhere", when it's just the same lies repeated everywhere?

I've tested various places around the world where I've spent time and over which I've flown and it doesn't get better.

And again, the simple reason is that M$ doesn't have good data.

In Lyon I was astonished to see how the city looked 30 years ago, when I was flying closer, Whole quarters transformed from elegant new buildings back to deteriorated industrial and back as I went further away: closeup material is evidently decades older and you see the same on Bing maps.

So if now they claim that things will look so much better because they source the data right from the Internet, please have a look at Bing Maps before you're tempted to buy: if that looks anywhere close to what you want to see from your cockpit window, go ahead.

If it's the garbage that I'm seeing, be ready to have fake precsion garbage put on top.

Google maps does a much better job because they evidently have the much better data. It's renderings are rough and you won't easily mistake them for the real thing.

But ground truth is actually visible inside that, not a precision rendered lie.

Caveat emptor!


P.S. I also have a gigabit fiber link for data and gave it 32GB for map storage.

Zero difference in quality: garbage in, garbage out!
 

JamesJones44

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I'm a little surprised they don't offer an option to pre-download areas of interest and just do a time based lease of when the local data expires and needs to be re-downloaded, much like map applications do with offline maps.

I think a 3 or 6 month lease on the downloaded data would likely be fine for the majority of the people who would pre-download regional data. I doubt the data changes that frequently or that the average user is going to care about a 3 or 6 month gap in the data flying around a commonly traversed region.
 
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I think a bigger problem would be the streaming server(s) it/themselves. If everything is streamed from the cloud, what's going to happen if the cloud goes down or just can't keep up with the demand of streaming upwards of the equivalent of 10-4K streams worth of data per hour per user?
 
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bit_user

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I think a bigger problem would be the streaming server(s) it/themselves. If everything is streamed from the cloud, what's going to happen if the cloud goes down or just can't keep up with the demand of streaming upwards of the equivalent of 10-4K streams worth of data per hour per user?
They might use content distribution networks, which maintain distributed servers closer to most endpoints. However, the problem with that would be the economics of it, since large chunks of your dataset now have to be duplicated across all of those servers. I'd imagine there are some algorithms pulling it in a demand-driven/predictive fashion, but I think it would still add up.
 

TeamRed2024

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If only I could install the game data on the 16TB of Samsung 990 Pro space I have... I have unlimited Xfinity internet too... but would rather not stream all this crap.
 

Heat_Fan89

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Thanks for the heads up with this article. I have Game Pass so I will try it and see how much data it uses. I have Xfinity and my data cap is 1.2TB and I stream a lot of shows so this game could present a problem. Although I thought I read that the game will install cache files of frequently flown areas?
 

Lewinator56

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Well, I was interested in MSFS 2024, my system absolutely meets the specs, but it's impossible, without me spending £5-10k, to have fast enough internet because BT can't be bothered to install FTTP here... In a city, with a data centre in it with a direct fibre link. I'll just have to stick with my 3.5MB/s download average.