Microsoft Puts Limits on Windows 7 Netbook Specs

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tiredwolf

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wow this really pisses me off... windows is the platform everyone will be designing for, so now they have to design arount this limitation.... i really really REALLY hate microsoft, i dont use windows, but this will affect the latest hardware that comes out. On the other hand mmaybe this will push more companies towards linux on netbooks again
 

apmyhr

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[citation][nom]danimal_the_animal[/nom]Next thing you know; will have them listing the ION chip set on their exceeded hardware list..............GRRRRRRR![/citation]
You bring up a good point. Microsoft is treading on dangerous anti-trust grounds when it forces users to use specific hardware to run the OS. What if AMD wanted to release a netbook with a 2.2GH CPU to compete with Intels 1.6GH Atom? Everyone understands the reason for minimal specs, but setting max specs is crossing the line.

I understand they want to keep Win 7 netbook edition from canabalizing their main sales of Win 7 editions, but they should stick to software restrictions, not hardware. I think setting the 3 app limit is a good compromise.
 
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It may seem harsh now, but with upcoming hardware, this rule may ease up.
Think about a 2 core 2Ghz processor (that's 4Ghz in essence, way above the 1Ghz MS posted as minimum specs for 7).
When processors reach below 32nm design, they mininotebooks could even have a 4core CPU with integrated GPU, all below 15W TDP.

The limitations are more to push the manufacturers like Intel, AMD, and others to start thinking more optimized efficiency and smaller!

Those limitations are (probably) only for the starters edition of Win7, or Win7 that comes preinstalled.
Any OEM version you could still install on machines outside these specs.
So these limitations don't count for regular (+11") laptops.
 
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[citation][nom]mindless728[/nom]they should just sell the netbooks without an OS, that way people get to choose what they want and it would be cheaper (though, not if they want windows)[/citation]
That's why you can get a Linux netbook, and install OEM whatever you want on it!
 
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[citation][nom]thedipper[/nom]Toms completely missed the point here. They're putting max specs on Starter Edition because they're removing the 3-app limit.[/citation]
That's like taking 3 steps back and 2 forward.
 
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[citation][nom]ProDigit80[/nom]That's like taking 3 steps back and 2 forward.[/citation]
Meaning it's still a step backwards from the home edition.
 

pender21

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I think the point of this is that there may be different licensing prices for Windows 7 - netbook vs desktop/notebook, where the netbook license will be cheaper. MS will sell Windows 7 for less to a manufacturer if it is for a "netbook" (because netbooks are supposed to be inexpensive). It is to prevent Manufacturers from calling all their notebooks, "netbooks", to save licensing costs for a preloaded Windows 7 OS. This way MS, does not get screwed.

I believe the end user consumer though should be able to upgrade their hardware (like RAM) without any issue.

Overall it seems like a smart move by M$ to not get exploited by notebook manufacturers.
 

snotling

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maximum RAM is a crime against the user...
other limitations almost make sense... except maybe the HD limitation, someday they might not make them that small anymore.
whoever mentionned ubuuntu, its just too slow to boot and battery hungry to be a good netbook OS.
 

krazyderek

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so if you upgrade the ram in a netbook with windows 7 with some you have laying around say 1.5gb or 2gb from a preview notebook or what have you, all of a sudden windows 7 won't start??? lol that's just ridiculous.
 

gilbertfh

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I am pretty sure the stipulations will be put on the hardware manufacturer. So Dell, HP, etc will not be able to sell a netbook with specifications higher than those stated and still bundle the discounted version of Windows 7. I as a moderate gamer am pretty sure a reason for this is to keep us from going for a minimalist operating system on a high end system when the operating system's intended target is low end markets. I cannot believe that if you buy a netbook that meets the specifications listed and add RAM to it the operating system will cease to function.
 

TheZander

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[citation][nom]jerreece[/nom]LOL Maximum Specs?! Are we kidding ourselves? Just plain stupid. It's all about making M$ more money. I can't help but think Intel is somehow involved in this, considering not only did M$ put a limit on CPU speed, but also thermal design? Intel's Atom has the corner on the market as we know. This seems like a way for M$ to subtly keep AMD from getting into the Netbook game if you ask me, but trying to keep them out due to thermal design limitations.[/citation]

It's called capturing all the different market segments with a product still from you. It's a very common business practice for a company to release a high end, mainstream, then low-end part. In hardware we call it binning. In software they call it "scaling down" or limiting features, if you will. The tri-core AMD processors are quad cores, but one core is disabled. Even though this has practical reasons, such as preventing one defective core from wasting an otherwise flawless CPU, it also captured AMD market share in the mid-low segment. MS wants a cheap product to compete with the Linux netbooks, and possibly those who buy a 'nix netbook and throw a pirated copy of Win 7 on it. Now OEMs and home builders can get a cheap version of Windows to go with their cheap computers. No longer do they have to buy Home Basic or Premium and get a lot of features they don't need. They can buy the cheapo starter edition with more limitations, and save themselves some money, as well as have a quicker OS install and less headaches, maintenance, and software troubleshooting on a platform that has very little profit margin ... case in point: the netbook.

If MS can release a cheap OS to replace XP on netbooks, than at the very least our end user cost will stay the same, and Win 7 and XP run similar performance-wise on similar hardware. MS's operating costs will only increase if they have to increase support on Windows 7 and still support new XP computer products. To keep clinging to XP is STUPID STUPID STUPID. Do you want prices to go UP??? If Dell releases a new netbook with Windows 7, and sells netbooks and notebooks with Vista, netbooks also with Linux, and continues to sell netbooks (which account for a very large and growing number of PC sales today) with XP, look at all the different platforms they have to support now.

Get over it, XP zealots. I loved XP as much as the next man, but we've got to move on. XP needs to be phased out, because the new OS's aren't going away. We need to transition the product to the newer, more recent software or support is going to be a financial and logistical nightmare, and our costs will never go down if we keep it up.

I'm fine with everything but the RAM limit. XP, Vista, OSX, and Windows 7 all run noticeably faster, even with basic apps and multitasking, having 2GB instead of 1. If they increase the limit to 2GB it's great, although I suspect they've received a little pressure on these limits from Intel, as intel doesn't want their Atom processors paired with decent graphics (like Ion) or 2GB of RAM either.

Windows 7 is quite good. I've heard they're getting rid of the 3 app limit, which I like. And I hope you can change the screen wallpaper. Limiting Windows Starter by screen resolution and hardware specs is reasonable to both help them capture market segment, and reduce the cost of their OS to the end user. Maybe 100's of you are happy as crap with Ubuntu running on your netbooks, but a lot of average users would feel MUCH more at home on a familiar Windows experience with their netbook. It's really not that hard to understand, people.
 

Windaria

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Wow... so, we have gone from netbooks running Linux because they couldn't handle them, to running Windows because they could then handle XP, and now they'll go back to running Linux (or Mac OS?) simply because, as the technology progresses, no one wants the slow, crappy netbooks that run Windows? How asinine.

I mean, I understand that netbooks are less powerful. The graphics and processor are simply not as capable. But RAM and HD specs continue to increase, and those limitations make no sense whatsoever. For that matter, artificial limitations make no sense whatsoever. But artificial limitations are how MS makes its money now.

"OK, we've developed this OS now, and we can sell it for a profit for X. But, if we do extra work, and artificially limit it, then we can remove some of those limitations, and sell it for X+Y, remove some more and sell it for X+Y+W, or not add any limitations, call it Ultimate, and sell it for X+Y+W+Z! So... for our first limitation... 3 programs sound right?"
 

Windaria

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[citation][nom]alp18[/nom]These requirements are already in place for current Netbooks running Windows XP.I'm hoping these are just the specs M$ for netbook mfgs and not that the OS is actually crippled to not run faster than 2Ghz or recognize >1GB memory. Now if they go to the trouble to actually limit the OS, now THAT would be stupid.[/citation]

Um... what makes you think they wouldn't?
 

TheZander

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[citation][nom]Windaria[/nom]But, if we do extra work, and artificially limit it, then we can remove some of those limitations, and sell it for X+Y, remove some more and sell it for X+Y+W, or not add any limitations, call it Ultimate, and sell it for X+Y+W+Z! So... for our first limitation... 3 programs sound right?"[/citation]

What they're doing isn't as odd or irrational as you make it sound. They are simply "binning" software for marketing and business purposes. It's never going to be worth it to pay a full-priced license for Windows 7 Home Premium or Business on a $300 netbook. It's not practical for the manufacturer, nor the end user who would eventually be faced with the extra cost. They limit Windows 7, and even make it run leaner and slimmer, and they also cut the price so it's cheap for manufacturers, thus cheaper for us. Microsoft also has a cheapo OS they can sell now as competition to Linux, where otherwise they would have nothing but XP, and on the previous page I mentioned the problems of propagating THREE public operating systems - Windows XP, Vista, and 7 - and thus needing to continue to support (and even increase the workforce needed, or reduce cost somehow, which usually results in even lower quality of a service that already almost sucks) all three operating systems.

That scenario doesn't make sense for us consumers, for MS, or the manufacturers. Please understand this.
 
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Well, Rest seems ok to me but, the RAM should have been Max 2 GB which is standard even for netbook these days. Everyone buys a netbook and upgrades the RAM on it
 

random1283

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ok guys the point is to stop oems like hp and dell taking a 17 inch gaming notebook and sticking windows 7 starter on it (which obviusly has the smallest profit margin) although i not sure why they would do that, I tis just microsoft makiny money and intel stopping amd encroaching on their market.
 

Windaria

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[citation][nom]TheZander[/nom]What they're doing isn't as odd or irrational as you make it sound. They are simply "binning" software for marketing and business purposes. It's never going to be worth it to pay a full-priced license for Windows 7 Home Premium or Business on a $300 netbook. It's not practical for the manufacturer, nor the end user who would eventually be faced with the extra cost. They limit Windows 7, and even make it run leaner and slimmer, and they also cut the price so it's cheap for manufacturers, thus cheaper for us. Microsoft also has a cheapo OS they can sell now as competition to Linux, where otherwise they would have nothing but XP, and on the previous page I mentioned the problems of propagating THREE public operating systems - Windows XP, Vista, and 7 - and thus needing to continue to support (and even increase the workforce needed, or reduce cost somehow, which usually results in even lower quality of a service that already almost sucks) all three operating systems.That scenario doesn't make sense for us consumers, for MS, or the manufacturers. Please understand this.[/citation]

Zander, you are absolutely correct... but there is a problem in what you indicated. Notice how hardware is getting cheaper? Computers are getting less expensive to make. In about 5-8 years, your phone will likely have the processor and graphics capabilities of your modern desktop, and you will likely be able to dock it in a cradle that hooks up to a monitor, keyboard, and mouse, but let you undock it to carry it with you. Moving your data between devices won't be as much of an issue, you'll likely just use the same device for far more stuff, and what you do move between things you will likely simply store remotely, and every device you have will be able to access it. In fact, Microsoft has filed a patent for this kind of a scenario recently...

My point was this. Not that MS has no business charging less for a crippled version, but that charging as much as they do for the full fledged desktop OS is a complete ripoff. After all, the same development is going into both, but what they charge for Windows Ultimate is completely unjustified.

Hardware needs to have the materials brought together and formed, for each and every item that is stamped and made. New development, new refinements of technology, and we make new things, and they find ways to reduce costs.

Software? Windows costs what, 2-4 times what it used to. They make it once and duplicate it as many times as they like. More computers are in use now than ever before, magnifying how much money the company makes by not just the increase in cost for the product, but also the number of instances of it being used in the market. And for what? The OS itself is less important now than it ever was, it is all about the software that runs on it.

My main thought was, why not just get rid of the binning, and charge what they are charging for the netbook version for all of their versions, since the same work is going into all of them.

But they won't... so I'll keep using Linux. I'm just glad that with HPs recent release I'll be able to get the better-specked version of the netbook for less money, for once, since I won't have to buy the Windows license. Now if only more companies dropped the cost and gave people the option to get the hardware for what it actually costs, without having Windows forced on me as well, with the hardware.
 

TheZander

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[citation][nom]Windaria[/nom]Zander, you are absolutely correct... but there is a problem in what you indicated. Notice how hardware is getting cheaper? Computers are getting less expensive to make. In about 5-8 years, your phone will likely have the processor and graphics capabilities of your modern desktop, and you will likely be able to dock it in a cradle that hooks up to a monitor, keyboard, and mouse, but let you undock it to carry it with you. Moving your data between devices won't be as much of an issue, you'll likely just use the same device for far more stuff, and what you do move between things you will likely simply store remotely, and every device you have will be able to access it. In fact, Microsoft has filed a patent for this kind of a scenario recently...My point was this. Not that MS has no business charging less for a crippled version, but that charging as much as they do for the full fledged desktop OS is a complete ripoff. After all, the same development is going into both, but what they charge for Windows Ultimate is completely unjustified.Hardware needs to have the materials brought together and formed, for each and every item that is stamped and made. New development, new refinements of technology, and we make new things, and they find ways to reduce costs.Software? Windows costs what, 2-4 times what it used to. They make it once and duplicate it as many times as they like. More computers are in use now than ever before, magnifying how much money the company makes by not just the increase in cost for the product, but also the number of instances of it being used in the market. And for what? The OS itself is less important now than it ever was, it is all about the software that runs on it.My main thought was, why not just get rid of the binning, and charge what they are charging for the netbook version for all of their versions, since the same work is going into all of them.But they won't... so I'll keep using Linux. I'm just glad that with HPs recent release I'll be able to get the better-specked version of the netbook for less money, for once, since I won't have to buy the Windows license. Now if only more companies dropped the cost and gave people the option to get the hardware for what it actually costs, without having Windows forced on me as well, with the hardware.[/citation]

Thank you for being kind in your remarks to me, but I gotta ask, are you crazy?? " Now if only more companies dropped the cost and gave people the option to get the hardware for what it actually costs..."
If I hired you as a sales manager and you told me this is your philosophy, you would be instantaneously fired on the spot. Heck, I probably wouldn't even hire you in my business if I figured out that you were this way beforehand. I'm not saying I am glad things are this way, but it's called capitalism and marketing. They will charge whatever people are willing to pay. Even if you are "forced" to buy a Microsoft OS because your 15,000 embroidery machine won't work without it, and your business will fail without that embroidery machine, you still have a choice. You can embroider all your clothing by hand, or you can pay the very profitable $169.99 that MS charges for an OEM license of their top OS ($170?? Oh CRAP! They are such a ripoff - I mean it's not like Adobe charges several times that for a program that merely "edits photos!!")
They choose a balanced price that will gain them the most profit for the least amount of effort and initial cost on their part. If they charge too much, they will sell less, hurting business. If they charge too little, they may sell more copies but with less margin on each copy. Ideally they would (like any intelligent business) choose the happy medium where they can maximize both numbers of sales and margin per unit, and I guaran-dang-tee that's exactly what MS tries to accomplish. You and I would likely do the same in a capitalistic society, even though our country has lost many elements of the original way it was instituted.
I would love for things to be a better deal, and I hate to see the big man on top raking in dough while employees get the shaft and consumers pay the price. Enter what we call competition. Some of the employees that get the shaft break away and do their own thing, charging less. There are simply millions of examples of this happening in the U.S. and around the world. This competition helps keep prices lower. Even though Apple and Linux systems account for a miniscule amount of the overall multitude of computers in the U.S., and largely around the world, they are still competition, and they still help keep MS at least somewhat honest. They have to make their OS at least work decently well, or they will start to see people defect.
Here's the problem with your complaints. You don't like the price? Heck, you use Linux so you probably don't like the price or the product, right? MAKE SOMETHING BETTER. Make an OS that runs all the latest games, works with most old and all new hardware, runs every popular office suite (including FREE ones!!), photo/design editing suite, and many video editing programs ... and charge LESS for it ... better yet, make it FREE!! Sure, Linux is GREAT, but it simply doesn't work with the mainstream, and it's not plug and play for non-computer-smart normal consumers that just want it to turn on and WORK. As much as I hate Leopard, Apple has the next best OS for consumers. What holds off the masses is the PRICE, yet another example of how marketing works.
If there were reasonable and practical alternatives to these "overpriced" softwares, people would buy it. I've used Photoshop, Paintshop Pro, and Gimp. The latter two simply don't compare. Even though CS4 suite costs $1700, I buy it once, and it lasts for 3-4 years before I upgrade again. In that time CS4 (unless my business SUCKS) will be one tool that my business uses to gain profit.
Maybe their software seems overpriced to you, but they don't give a CRAP about you as an individual. They care about the masses. And as long as the masses are buying their OS, you have ZERO grounds to say that it is a ripoff. Sorry.
 
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