News Microsoft sets 16GB default for RAM for AI PCs – machines will also need 40 TOPS of AI compute: Report

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What independent benchmark measures these TOPS? And what precision, INT8?

Saying TOPS without a benchmark and a "setting" (INT8, FP16, etc.) is like saying "200 FPS" without a game and without the settings.

Each CPU, GPU, and NPU has some TOPS at some precision. This needs to move away from marketing numbers.
 
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Alvar Miles Udell said:
Just like Microsoft, set 16GB RAM a minimum at a time when 32GB needs to be minimum for anything that's not a POS or very low task office machine.
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This is wildly off the mark. I get that people like to justify having excessive amounts of RAM, but 16 GB is more than sufficient for all but the most memory-intensive users. 8 GB is plenty for average users still, and 4 GB is workable for basic-needs users.

ikjadoon said:
Saying TOPS without a benchmark and a "setting" (INT8, FP16, etc.) is like saying "200 FPS" without a game and without the settings.
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Bruh, my computer can do 1,000 FPS. One thousand!
 
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If you have Superfetch enabled, which every office computer will probably have, 8Gb is the MINIMUM, with many computers running excel, smashing straight over that 8Gb. 16Gb IS the minimum. No point in going lower. Same for ssds. 128Gb is too small, so 256Gb is the standard.

32gb for people that love cad, video/audio/photo editing or for the LOLz. Heck, slap 64Gb in. WOOOO go crazy.

P.s Right now, I'm using 10.0Gb, with 8 Opera tabs and playing a video. 8Gb? Playa', please!
 
excalibur1814 said:
P.s Right now, I'm using 10.0Gb, with 8 Opera tabs and playing a video. 8Gb? Playa', please!
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That doesn't seem right at all. I've got Edge open with 12 tabs and a Facebook video playing. Task Manager pegs my memory usage at 4 GB.

Earlier, I tried opening up nearly every single app I have installed on my PC at once, including Visual Studio, Edge, Steam, Ryzen Master, a bunch of built-in store apps, and a bunch of system tools. I managed to get memory usage up to 9 GB.

Prior to upgrading to 16 GB, I was on 8 GB and was totally fine. I'm not a super light PC user, as I play games and I program using Visual Studio. I really have to try to push my memory usage above 8 GB now that I have 16. A few years back I played through the entirety of Jedi Fallen Order on 8 GB RAM and using my old Ryzen 3200G's built in graphics.
 
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HopefulToad said:
That doesn't seem right at all. I've got Edge open with 12 tabs and a Facebook video playing. Task Manager pegs my memory usage at 4 GB.

Earlier, I tried opening up nearly every single app I have installed on my PC at once, including Visual Studio, Edge, Steam, Ryzen Master, a bunch of built-in store apps, and a bunch of system tools. I managed to get memory usage up to 9 GB.

Prior to upgrading to 16 GB, I was on 8 GB and was totally fine. I'm not a super light PC user, as I game and program using Visual Studio. I really have to try to push my memory usage above 8 GB now that I have 16.
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That's because you are using Edge. Great browser, I'm getting tired of all of the "helpful" popups though.
 
rluker5 said:
That's because you are using Edge. Great browser, I'm getting tired of all of the "helpful" popups though.
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Helpful pop-ups? You should be able to disable most of that stuff in settings. The first thing I do when configuring a new browser is to go into settings and toggle off nearly every setting that's enabled by default.

Edit: Most of the "helpful" stuff to "improve your browsing experience" can be disabled under the "Services" settings at the bottom of edge://settings/privacy
 
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Easiest solution so far (If AI = Copilot)
1. shut off Copilot
2. play with virtual memory size (even set to 0) to see how your machine performs
 
We are probably looking at moving the inference and training over to the local machine with Windows 12. This isn't just going to be about running a chatbot that acts interested when you type with it, but ingesting all of your files (photo, video included) and making inference based decisions on local data and behaviors. That isn't to mention potential audio conversations and/or generative creation. With what big data models currently take I am really kind of amazed that 16 gb of memory is enough if realtime audio and video are involved. That being said though I highly doubt this is really minimum spec for Windows 12, just for the AI extensions although I could be wrong. Microsoft historically has been pretty good about giving their partners a decent lead on this stuff so this info is probably more for the likes of Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus, etc to get minimum specs in line than for us system builders to complain about.
 
From what I can gather, and it's not altogether clear, 40 TOPS is an insane amount of raw CPU performance that pretty much rules out any consumer processor now on the market. Is Microsoft putting all pre-W12 hardware on the chopping block?

CPUs will need some sort of ASIC assist to achieve those numbers, perhaps in the form of an "AI ready" GPU for existing builds

If this is the baseline for an AI ready W12 build; fine. But... If that's the minimum spec to run Windows 12... just wowsers. Microsoft and it's partners have really been turning the screws on consumers since COVID, haven't they?
 
I run 64GB of RAM myself and when 3d modeling, 1000 chrome tabs going, playing a game, and watching a video all at once on 3 different screens I can honestly use about 20GB of it regularly and have maxed it out once rendering a very large and complex animation set. I think 16GB should just be the de facto standard anyway, with gamers opting for 32+ GB RAM. whoever said 4GB I think you are funny lol... you must have very low expectations of performance.
 
ICollectTransformers said:
whoever said 4GB I think you are funny lol... you must have very low expectations of performance.
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I said it's workable for basic-needs users. I know this because my wife has been using a budget laptop with 4 GB RAM for the last 6+ years without issue for writing, browsing, and watching videos.

ICollectTransformers said:
first thing I do is shut off virtual memory/ pagefile when configuring a new system, since NVMe drives and 16+gb fast ram you just don't need it
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Err, why? If you do happen to run out of RAM and you have no pagefile, you're going to get app and/or system crashes, and as far as I know there is zero performance penalty for having it enabled if it isn't actually used. Plus, fast SSDs means faster paging if it is needed.
 
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HopefulToad said:
This is wildly off the mark. I get that people like to justify having excessive amounts of RAM, but 16 GB is more than sufficient for all but the most memory-intensive users. 8 GB is plenty for average users still, and 4 GB is workable for basic-needs users.
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I completely disagree. My laptop with a Ryzen 4700U and 8GB LPDDR4X, constantly has to page even with non gaming usage (no dGPU so it can't really game anyway) especially when I browse the internet and even when I launch a casual game, and my desktop as I sit here now is showing 17GB RAM in use (15.8GB without that memory hog Steam up) and I just have Outlook, Edge with 2 tabs, Discord, Phone Link, and a few other things in the background like Razer Synapse. So while 8GB may get you through the day and SSDs, especially NVMe SSDs, have greatly mitigated the paging penalty, saying less than 16GB is sufficient for "all but the most memory-intensive users" is incorrect.

Also given that 16GB DDR5 is $60-$70 and 32GB DDR5 is $105-$120, there's no reason to go cheap and use 16GB unless it's a very basic office computer ordered from an OEM which charges $100+ for the 32GB upgrade.
 
Alvar Miles Udell said:
I completely disagree. My laptop with a Ryzen 4700U and 8GB LPDDR4X, constantly has to page even with non gaming usage (no dGPU so it can't really game anyway) especially when I browse the internet and even when I launch a casual game, and my desktop as I sit here now is showing 17GB RAM in use (15.8GB without that memory hog Steam up) and I just have Outlook, Edge with 2 tabs, Discord, Phone Link, and a few other things in the background like Razer Synapse.
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Memory leak. A ball park figure of RAM usage on a fresh boot of W11 on an 8GiB system is 4 gigs, give or take. Time for a clean reinstall?
 
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This is nuts. There is a reason why Windows 10 is still the most used Windows system. A vast number of users, both private and commercial (small and big), can run the software they need to run on a Windows 10 machine. Setting a minimum standard this high for EVERYONE who upgrades to Windows 12 is just a method to force more money out of users who have no actual need for such a high level machine. Microsoft COULD offer two versions of Windows 12 - one with and one without the AI specs requirement. But we know that's not going to happen, don't we.
 
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