Microsoft: Steam Box Not a Threat; Prototypes in 4 Months

[thecolorblue]

[citation][nom]shikamaru31789[/nom]I still am failing to see how they plan to market the Steam Box. There's the Linux issue, Steam has a comparatively small library of Linux titles. There's the price/performance issue, for instance, Valve has said that the Piston would be one of many Steam Boxes (including their own), but it is expected to cost like $900, and yet it only has an APU, it could fall behind minimum requirements in just a few years. Why would a console gamer pay $900 for a system that'll be outdated faster than their $400 console, why would a PC gamer pay $900 for a Piston when they can build a system with 2-3 times the power for the same price? Yes, it's small, but you can get a much more powerful systems that is still small enough to easily fit in a living room. Yes, Valve is working on their own Steam Box as well and getting more price/performance will be easier with a larger form factor than the Piston, but I still don't see how they can compete with consoles in price/performance since consoles are usually sold at a loss. Is Valve willing to sell Steam Boxes at a loss and hope to make back their loss in Software sales?[/citation]
i think you a being a little short sighted on the linux issue. when there is a platform like this and like steam for linux you willnaturally begin to see more games madeto run on linux.

also you seem to fail at reading comprehension regarding performance. the platform will be EASILY UPGRADABLE BY USERS... in 4 years when the need is there an owner of the box can upgrade it.

 

[darkavenger123]

[citation][nom]sykozis[/nom]Being on Linux gives them the advantage of OpenGL.....which means there won't be the concern of the next game coming down the line choking the GPU to death... OpenGL doesn't require near the processing power that DirectX does.[/citation]
LOL. "Advantage of OpenGL". Maybe 15 years ago it was true. DX now has way surpassed what OpenGL can do. Of course it needs more processing power. Nothing comes for free in life, including processing power. btw, my GTX 460 seems to run most of my games at FullHD resolution just fine. So much for "choking the GPU".

 

[thecolorblue]

[citation][nom]eldenskloss[/nom]Would be cool if this steam box ran most(or some) of the process on the cloud and rest on the box. That way you can half the load, and maybe over come the "latency" issues. Which you would probably still have them. Just wouldn't surprise me if valve pulled a rabbit out of the hat and released something we weren't expecting.[/citation]
NO. i'd rather own the games and not depend on a developer keeping the server alive in order to play.
"cloud" (corporation-controlled server based) gaming will be a disaster. people are so clueless

 

[darkavenger123]

[citation][nom]thecolorblue[/nom]i think you a being a little short sighted on the linux issue. when there is a platform like this and like steam for linux you willnaturally begin to see more games madeto run on linux.also you seem to fail at reading comprehension regarding performance. the platform will be EASILY UPGRADABLE BY USERS... in 4 years when the need is there an owner of the box can upgrade it.[/citation]

The problem is, in 4 years, the PC will way surpass anything the consoles can offer and in 6 years, there'll be another round of console released which will be better and cheaper. Basically, there is nothing which can upgrade forever. Sure, the most is to be able to plug in a new GPU. But in 4 years time, all new architecture will appear and there's no way to upgrade just a few parts....new CPU socket, new RAM, new express lane....just look at the PC...Mos tupgradeable console ever....Unless you upgrade every six months, most users will probably upgrade after 3-4 years...by which time, new GPU will come out to support different and faster connection, CPU with different socket, etc.... Sure, you still can upgrade it with some previous generation CPU and GPU, but for the money paid, you might as well buy an all new platform.

 

[southernshark]

As an old gamer... I can only say that I can't wait. Valve has done more for gaming than any other company in the past 20 years and my money will support them.

 

[mobrocket]

I hope this is successful
granted i like xbox and PS
but i like linux more

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]mobrocket[/nom]I hope this is successfulgranted i like xbox and PSbut i like linux more[/citation]
Bully for you that you like Linux, but Gabe has already confirmed it will be an x86 based system and that users will be able install Windows if they so desire, then Microsoft is absolutley correct in it's statement

Steambox is not a threat

It is likely to be a revenue stream, as anyone having glitches getting there Steam games to work on Linux will simply use a tried, tested and trusted Windows instead

 

[janetonly42]

I'll take one of these over any of your crap MS.

 

[janetonly42]

[citation][nom]zybch[/nom]It wasn't. EVERYONE with an iPad ALSO has a PC. Its utterly useless as a sole device. Its ONLY use is as a media consumption/crappy gaming/bad web browsing tablet.[/citation]
Yeah but many of them are going to go Mac now when they need to replace their PC.

 

[ubercake]

I'm all for more options in the marketplace. More options mean more competition for our business so this will drive progress.

A console is a real cost-effective option for those not buying high-end PC equipment.

If I had to choose between a low-end or lower-mid-end gaming PC build and a gaming console, it would make more sense to go with the gaming console. Hopefully the new gen of consoles will allow keyboard and mouse controls?

 

[shikamaru31789]

i think you a being a little short sighted on the linux issue. when there is a platform like this and like steam for linux you willnaturally begin to see more games madeto run on linux.

also you seem to fail at reading comprehension regarding performance. the platform will be EASILY UPGRADABLE BY USERS... in 4 years when the need is there an owner of the box can upgrade it.

I am sure that Steam will be able to attract more developers to Linux, of that I have no doubt. The issue I'm seeing is rather or not they'll be able to attract AAA multiplatform developers to make Linux ports of there games. The Linux install base isn't that big yet, that's why Steam's current Linux library isn't that big. I'm trying to look at this as through the eyes of a AAA developer, you've got access to the PC and the PS4 and NextBox, which are basically closed PC's, running x86 cpu's and Direct 3D 11.1 GPU's, you can make a game on all 3 really easily, then you've got the Steam Box running Linux, and the Wii U running with a PowerPC based processor, naturally those two are going to be harder to develop for. Will most multiplatform developers bother with the extra hassle of porting?

Now obviously the Steam Box will attract some exclusives of it's own, as well as some Indie developers. But without that crucial multiplatform AAA support, most console gamers aren't going to consider it an option as a primary gaming device, so only the console gamers that can afford to get multiple consoles will get one. That means a good portion of the console market is closed off to the Steam Box. That's why Microsoft doesn't seem that concerned.

And yes, I realise that it can be upgraded, just like I realise that users can install Windows on it themselves. However, I fear cost may be a concern, Valve keeps suggesting that the Steam Box will be of a really small form factor. Look at the prototype Piston, the prices on Xi3's website for upgrades are outrageous, the Piston itself is $1000 but only has an A10 5800K with it's integrated 7660D, you can build an A10 PC yourself for like $350. The final Valve Steam Box will likely bigger than that and therefore have better price/performance, but I doubt it'll be as big as a mini-itx case (some dimension is almost always 14+"), which means there's not much chance of it being big enough to fit in off the shelf upgrades, which may mean we'll have to pay extra for proprietary upgrades. As for being able to install Window's on it yourself, there's another reason Microsoft isn't concerned, they make money on all of those Windows purchases. But, there's still the cost issue, Windows is another $100, once again, budget friendly console gamers may be turned off.

 

[Junoh315]

[citation][nom]sykozis[/nom]Being on Linux gives them the advantage of OpenGL.....which means there won't be the concern of the next game coming down the line choking the GPU to death... OpenGL doesn't require near the processing power that DirectX does.[/citation]

Most people who would buy the games from the companies already have PCs. I do agree that companies need to cater to both sides but if someone built a gaming Mac PC then I'd probably facepalm. The default card in the Mac Pro when you go to build it on Apple's website is a 1GB Radeon HD 6670. I just put one of these in my mom's PC and it's not bad but the part is only worth 70 USD with a 15 USD rebate on top of that so it costs a total of 55 USD.

I think that everyone should have access to a class in school that teaches them how to build a computer.

 

[Guest]

Developers will be pushed more by M$ greed, at first, than attracted by Gabe's push towards Linux, but with Gabe in the game, offering an alternative to the M$ closed ecosystem, hands in the developers pockets, Metro/Modern nightmare, things could change radically in favor of the steam box and Linux!
Gabe Newell, strong in the force this one is!

 

[Cazalan]

It looks cool but that price is too high. Maybe in a couple years when the 20nm APUs come out they can get the cost under $400.

 

[CrArC]

[citation][nom]unksol[/nom]In what world is left 4 dead horror? I don't even want to get into it measuring how "aroused" I am... Or adjusting my "experience" based on it.[/citation]Well, that's the point. Their little biometric system will detect that you're not suitably horrified by the game and thus ramp up the horrificness to compensate.

I imagine it will start by increasing the zombie count, then failing that, probably move on to clowns or something. If you're still not horrified enough, your zombie-clown assailants will begin chanting about how Half Life 3 is never going to be released. If that doesn't get your pulse racing, then it announces that for every HL3-bashing-clown-zombie you fail to kill/each point of damage you take, your Steam account will be charged $10.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]FightTheDarkLordBallmer[/nom]Developers will be pushed more by M$ greed, at first, than attracted by Gabe's push towards Linux, but with Gabe in the game, offering an alternative to the M$ closed ecosystem, hands in the developers pockets, Metro/Modern nightmare, things could change radically in favor of the steam box and Linux!Gabe Newell, strong in the force this one is![/citation]
The Steambox will be made from relatively standard PC hardware, in real terms it is no different than a SFF PC that you have been able to install Steam on for many, many years
...
You seriously think that Linux users have been waiting for someone to spoonfeed them some hardware for something they have been able to make themselves already?

If the Linux Gamer revolution was going to explode, it would have happened already

 

[phate]

[citation]You seriously think that Linux users have been waiting for someone to spoonfeed them some hardware for something they have been able to make themselves already?If the Linux Gamer revolution was going to explode, it would have happened already[/citation]

No, linux users have been waiting for someone to make games for linux. The major issue is how much/little it takes Valve to maintain the hardware. If it is essentially a PC with Linux installed then there might be less overhead in maintaining (versions) it versus a PS4 or XBox. Basically, write the game once and have it work both on a linux PC and the SteamBox. If Valve can break even on the hardware, then they still broaden their user base and it is a potential win.

Basically, if their investment in the hardware is fairly minimal, then they get more potential sales with only a small potential downside if it fails.

 

[hannibal]

The actual problem for SteamBox may actually be that it is actually a upgradeable mini PC with linux OS, so the developers have to make games for the first edition steambox if they want to sell as many games as possible or they use better hardware of Steambox version X, but the game does not work in previous versions... or works not so well. So we are in the same situation as real PC are. There will be some limiting factor (the first released version (or the one that has sold most)) that will hinder upgraded versions.
The good thing here is that in the beginning this is a mini PC where all hardware is same, and the linux version will be same in all sold machines. After some time there will be a lot of fragmentation. That may be a problem, but in any way this is interesting project.

 

[Vladislaus]

[citation][nom]kartu[/nom]Of course it is a threat. Microsoft's exclusive stuff:1) DirectX => there are NO alternatives really, OpenGL + Wine do NOT cut it, lot's of pain configuring, HUGE performance penalty[/citation]
WTH! What does Wine have to do with OpenGL. Steam doesn't use Wine, all games are ported. Also if you think that ported games on linux run slower then think again:

http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

 

[Vladislaus]

[citation][nom]shikamaru31789[/nom]I'm trying to look at this as through the eyes of a AAA developer, you've got access to the PC and the PS4 and NextBox, which are basically closed PC's, running x86 cpu's and Direct 3D 11.1 GPU's, you can make a game on all 3 really easily, then you've got the Steam Box running Linux, and the Wii U running with a PowerPC based processor, naturally those two are going to be harder to develop for.[/citation]
I'm guessing you need to get your eyes checked. The next Xbox and windows PCs are able to use Direct3D 11.1. The PS4 and the SteamBox will be in the same arena. Both with x86 CPU's and with a Direct3D 11.1 capable GPU. The PS4 won't use Direct3D for the same reason SteamBox won't use it. Direct3D is a Microsoft API, it will only work on their platforms. So if the PS4 can survive and attract AAA developers perhaps SteamBox has also a chance.

 

[alextheblue]

[citation][nom]kitsunestarwind[/nom]dedicated upgradeable console like device with good games might hit that sweet spot of gaming in the lounge room without being bombarded with everything else[/citation]Buy a gaming PC, even a lowend one. Hook it up to a TV via HDMI. Slap a Steam Logo sticker on the case.

Look it's like the Steam Box but BETTER and plays more games! Woot!

 

[einheriar]

[citation][nom]janetonly42[/nom]Yeah but many of them are going to go Mac now when they need to replace their PC.[/citation]

Yes idiots are found everywhere..

 

[einheriar]

[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]I'm guessing you need to get your eyes checked. The next Xbox and windows PCs are able to use Direct3D 11.1. The PS4 and the SteamBox will be in the same arena. Both with x86 CPU's and with a Direct3D 11.1 capable GPU. The PS4 won't use Direct3D for the same reason SteamBox won't use it. Direct3D is a Microsoft API, it will only work on their platforms. So if the PS4 can survive and attract AAA developers perhaps SteamBox has also a chance.[/citation]

I do not understand how people can vote this down 2 times.. it's perfectly logic.. ps4 will not use dx11, and thus likely defaults to openGL. Like the rest of the non dx11 consoles. I asume that the ps4 will also likely run a a sony specific flavour of linux, maybe specifically written to the ps4 but still linux.

 

[Clark Sweetman]

I think the whole industry will benefit from Linux becoming a mainstream Gaming platform. I would run Linux on everything if I could. It's so clean and secure compared to windows but almost no mainstream games run on it. It seems to be getting closer and closer. All it needs is a couple of major releases to come out for Linux and the flood gates could finally open! Android gaming, Steam on Linux and steambox are all going in the right direction.

 

[Unolocogringo]

[citation][nom]hakesterman[/nom]" No thanks I'll keep my folding/gaming computer. I have a WII for the wife and grandkids and a PS3 for a media center but no games for it. "Having a PS3 with no Games is like having a Car with no Engine. I will cry for you before i go to bed tonight.........[/citation]
PS3 for media center? That's lame, the PS3 sucks for that purpose, there are tons of video formats it doesn't support. Only a poor bastard that can't afford $99 for a WDTV would rely on the PS3. If you're not gaming especially there is zero point, I don't get why you would do this to yourself?

When I purchased it years ago it was the best Blu-ray player available the best upscaler available and thought I might try gaming on it.
Well it sucks big time for gaming!!!!!
So now we use it for movies Blu-ray and dvds and Netflix.
Why anyone would want to listen to crappy sounding compressed mp3 etc is beyond me, unless they are already partially deaf and can't hear the difference anyway.
I can afford almost anything I want money is not the issue.