Microsoft: "We Were Smoked" By Apple iTunes

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the Zune HD is actually a more user friendly product than the Ipod touch and Iphone. The video formats are more abundant, it is HDMI makes it easily accessable for todays players and HTPC's, and although there is little 3rd part suppost as most of the developers make stuff for the Ipod and iphone, MS should be able to market this product as well so PC developers can create 3rd party apps and games for the ZUNE.
 
I don't download music or pay for in that way so I can't comment on that but I _love_ the ZuneHD.

In almost (read: every single one) every way it is better than iPod Touch except that it isn't made for dummies.

I think Apples does excel in giving you something made for dummies and non-power users while also limiting and locking down everything it can do.

My ZuneHD is
 
Ooops seems it doesn't like me using ascii characters. Anyway, my ZuneHD is the greatest blessing to new gadgets in a while.

I think though since Apple was first on the scene in terms of mainstream acceptance, it will take time for 'regular' users (i.e. those who don't read tech sites and forums) to give other products a real look.
 
iTunes, the iTunes store and the least painful integration between software, drivers and a PMP (the iPod) is why (along with marketing) Apple dominates the market, and why Apple computers have seen a surge in market share.
Compared to many pre-iPod PMP's, the iPod was much more user friendly. Non-techies could never figure out how to transfer/buy/connect their mp3 player to their computer. No matter how good your mp3 player is, if you can't easily transfer the content, you get frustrated and stop using it...

Had the Zune team spent more time and money on R&D to make damn sure the Zune was 100% compatible with any PC, and made sure Zune connect software was intuitive enough for a 2 year older to use, they would have beaten Apple with superior hardware/similar software.

But because MS is dumb, we are stuck with the crappiest PMP on the market dominating, while charging a premium over everyone else...
 
Jobs hit them hard on this! Itunes is the best music service ( 100% my opinion ,not fact ) out there - besides limewire I got to have my free music!!!!
 
everyone uses iTunes, just because they have iPods/iPhones...but if MS had there version of iPhone, zune would be more widely used...as it works better (tho slower) than iTunes
 
[citation][nom]billy boy[/nom]Now that Jobs has done it we need to move fast to get something where the UI and Rights are as good.[/citation]
And the result is the drm laden toy o$ (vi$hta and vi$hta sp2+, aka $even), which every wintarded micro$uxx fankiddie is craving for...
 
[citation][nom]TheDuke[/nom]Bill Gatesthe Billionaire that sounds down to earth[/citation]
Yeahh, that's part of why we love him.
Bill has done amazing things, and even though he doesn't really have control over his company anymore, he refuses to go down without a fight. =)

iTunes sucks by the way.
I'd also rather subscription service.
 
[citation][nom]Maxor127[/nom]I've never had a single problem with iTunes. But like usual, biased Apple hate = hate everything and anything they create. The fact is Apple has always been the innovator and Microsoft has always walked the trails Apple blazed. Apple II ushered in the PC era. The Mac introduced the GUI interface and mouse control. Take your pick between Apple, Atari, or Commodore for popularizing advanced graphics and audio.Microsoft competed and succeeded by being cheaper. It had the advantage of IBM PC clone manufacturers. The systems were inferior to the competition, but cheap. And they began to swallow up the marketshare, and unlike Apple, Microsoft embraced games even though Apple systems were usually better equipped at handling the best games. Steve Jobs wanted Macs and Apple computers to be seen as serious business and educational tools, and not as toys.But still, Apple continues to innovate and popularize new technologies, and Microsoft continues to chase them. Only now, Apple has retained a firm stranglehold in those sectors, and Microsoft fanboys are crying about it. So basically, Microsoft is like a really successful Chinese knockoff company.I don't understand why anyone over 16 would have blind hatred for any company, and treat any success like they just raped and murdered your family and any failure like you won the lottery.[/citation]

Umm... you do realize that Apple borrowed just as many ideas right? I could care less about either company, whoever puts out the better product with more support gets my money. Right now, Microsoft is winning the race for OS's. There is nothing wrong with a 'chinese' knockoff, some of them are of higher quality than the orignals with lower prices. It's a win for consumers. Now, if they don't have rights to copy, then that's another issue, but if you're dumb enough to give someone the rights (yeah, apple gave microsoft the rights to use their tech circa '85, so the jude decided in the case in '88, so stop saying it was stolen), then you can't complain. Apple paid (gave shares to) Xerox to 'borrow' their GUI tech, microsoft struct a deal with Apple to use their Mouse and GUI tech in order to develop apps for them, and later rolled it into an OS. Did microsoft use trickery? Yes. Apple knew what was going on, but didn't want to lose Microsoft as a developer, and didn't think microsoft could develop anything worthwhile anyways. I don't agree with either companies business practices, but how can you look at microsoft with the view that they are the devil, and that apple is a complete saint? They both used similar tactics to get what they wanted. I know, you're a mac fanboy and can't see it from an unbiased view like some of the world. I view both companies in the same light. Apple doesn't innovate, they borrow ideas and expand upon them. iPhone? New idea? Hardly, there were data phones out long before it. App store a new idea? Meh, you could argue it either way and not really be wrong, but there were many other places you could download digital music and apps from prior. iPad a novel idea? No, they even stole the NAME!! They don't really innovate, they just take concepts and expand, similar to what microsoft does. I just don't see how you can make a comparison of 2 things that are almost identical and call them different.
 
[citation][nom]ready4dis[/nom]I just don't see how you can make a comparison of 2 things that are almost identical and call them different.[/citation]
That's because he is a fanboy, blinded into thinking Apple invented fire and the wheel. Here's a list of things Apple didn't innovate either by modifying an existing product or by outright theft.
GUI & mouse - Xerox
Apple logo - Beatles
OSX - FreeBSD
iPod menu - Creative
iPhone name - Cisco
iPad name - Fujitsu
 
I have to agree with a lot of the other comments here; I'm rather impressed with Bill Gates' leadership style, at least as it's shown here.

Also, Microsoft definitely did come up with something better; I don't know anyone that's used Zune software and marketplace, and then gone back to Itunes. Unfortunately they were just so late to the game with it, they're fighting a lot of brand recognition and a huge, loyal iPod fanbase. I'd like to see them make some real progress with Zune, but I'm not sure if I'd really expect it to ever happen.
 
I think microsoft generally makes a better product.. most of the time.. their big problem is marketing.
Apple kicks ass when it comes to marketing.
Hell.. they could sell a piece of dog**** and people would buy it.
"iPoo"
 
[citation][nom]Abrahm[/nom]I can't stand iTunes. I have had a large number of issues with it. It just isn't a good piece of software. But when has mediocrity ever stopped Apple from succeeding?[/citation]

iTunes is pretty bad for Windows and I think they've been writing crappy Windows code for a while now to make Windows look bad and OS X look good.

This definitely isn't a one sided affair though. Office for Mac is absolutely horrendous and there is no version of IE for OS X at all. Yes, some specialty web sites will still only run on IE.

But, mediocrity? Great job showing the world your complete inability to have an ounce of objectivity and making sure we aware of your fanboyism.
 
Never used iTunes and never will, I don't give my business to stores that force me to use what they want me to use, I can make my own choices.
 
[citation][nom]commandersozo[/nom]In their defense, I do like the Zune software more, especially in terms of actually playing music.[/citation]
Fanboys of MS are all over this site, trolls everywhere.
 
Honestly, the complaints about fanboism on this site are horrendous. They themselves are biased and completely subjective. For starters I am a PC user for games and customizing, although I enjoy my iPod Touch and have used Mac's before.

Nearly everyone on these forums are very biased towards Windows because of the wide user base here that is mostly attracted to customizable hardware, and open source/ more open ended systems/technologies. The problem is that once the majority is biased, then everyone else becomes "fanbois." When in fact most of the users of this site are Windows "fanbois."

You can have a favorite brand or a favorite product, or be completely one sided and only buy from ONE comapany, but I don't suggest it. The truth is, one company will do better in certain areas than others, and vice versa. You simply cannot say that one company is the best at everything. "Microsoft makes all the best products!" I think we can all agree that's not true, Windows has improved but still has it's faults, I've never like IE, and never liked Windows Media Player, although Media Center is nice. ALTHOUGH -- Windows offers the most widespread support for games, hardware and software in general, this is why I use a PC. Yet still, some people treat PC's like the gods of the computer industry, and treat Apple as the devil, it's simply not true.

On the opposite side of the fence, "Apple is the best at everything!" also isn't true. The first thing to mention is Apple lacks customizing, BUT this allows great stability, a nice feature for those who only use it for day to day browsing, email, calendar etc. HOWEVER Apple has taken the media industry by storm using iTunes, iPods, and the iTunes store. I would venture a guess that over 50% of high school students own an iPod, maybe upwards of 60% or 70%. Apple has done a great job in this market, iPods work, play music, some videos, and are a great device to have. Although you are limited to iTunes, this is not a HUGE concern, I personally have not had many problems with iTunes, although I've had a few.

Now each company has ups and downs and you can argue what they are to death, but that's not the point. The point is that the forums are VERY subjective and biased towards Windows, and it's infuriating to read the comments each day on each Mac article. The writers get flamed for biased views towards Apple and for writing too many Apple articles when in reality this is not true. If you were to look at 10 articles on Tom's from one day it would likely break down like this : 4-5 on Windows/MS, 1-2 on Apple/Mac products, 2-3 on Google's adventures, and 1-3 other news. These claims are ignorant and unfounded, not to mention it's Tom's Hardware/Tom's Guide. No where in there does it say Tom's WINDOWS Guide, or Tom's BIASED Guide, it's simply anything and everything tech related, and the occasional joke story that may or may not relate to tech (ei. - The guy who found a rocket launcher in his backyard.) Now Apple is very involved in the tech world obviously, with the release of the iPad, and other news, (great product or not, I don't care.) It makes sense to report on them, because it is news relating to the tech world.

Seriously, stop with the incessant biased whinning and learn something from an article, don't just sit and criticize it because it contradicts what you think.

As for the article, it's nice to see some humility from someone so rich and powerful. Like someone else said, he's not heavy handed or demanding, he wants honest ideas and thoughts. Some people on Tom's could take a lesson in humility and honest thinking.
 
[citation][nom]pocketdrummer[/nom]@brendano257The first thoughtful comment I've read in a long time.[/citation]

Thanks, I'd just about reached the point where I couldn't stand it anymore....and I had a free 45min of graphic design class XD
 
To all the Apple fans who say this is proof that Apple leads the way in innovation and crap - all this proves is that someone else would have done it before Apple if the Music companies had let them. Bill says it himself in this email. "How did Apple get the music companies to give in when nobody else could?" That's not technology innovation, that's business. They got lucky the music companies were ready to go digital right when Apple was offering a deal.

 
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