News Microsoft will charge Windows 10 users $30 per year for security updates

[purple_dragon]

Windows 10 EOL...So much for the last Windows ever. Just say no to recall.

 

[setx]

Win11 is a completely different kernel with scheduling for heterogeneous cores that Win10 can't do with the same efficiency.

What is there "completely different"?
And who said that Win10 kernel can't do that scheduling? It's just that they don't want to add it to Win10 to give an excuse for forced update to Win11. It's as ridiculous as requirement for TPM.

 

[Amdlova]

I will pay 30 us per year if I can keep away from windows 11. My valve save us from the pain (windows 11)

 

[TheOtherOne]

Alexa, play Pirates of the Caribbean theme music please! 🏴‍☠️

 

[Dr3ams]

People said that about Win 10, literally from Day 1.

They had it on 'good authority' that an install would last only 30 days, then go directly to a paid model.

There are OS plugins/services that Microsoft could ask the consumer to pay a monthly/yearly subscription for. An example could be a Supreme Windows version that would include additional plugins (such as an advanced AI) and services (such as ad free) . A standard version, with ads that can't be disabled, would be for free.

 

[Kondamin]

I still have an i5-3570k system running win10, although it's been relegated to troubleshooting and testing parts.

Might I suggest installing Linux or ChromeOS?
I am trying out Mint and it feels fine as a long time Win7/8/10/11 user.

No chrome OS should never ever be suggested if you dislike Microsoft for its practices

 

[USAFRet]

There are OS plugins/services that Microsoft could ask the consumer to pay a monthly/yearly subscription for. An example could be a Supreme Windows version that would include additional plugins (such as an advanced AI) and services (such as ad free) . A standard version, with ads that can't be disabled, would be for free.

Well, they could do that.
But they haven't.

 

[newtechldtech]

yea right , this will open the way for MS to intentionally put security flaws in each update then ask you to pay for extended update ... and the circle continues on and on and on and on ...

I thought that a Product should be PERFECT and without any issue , if you have a security problem , People should ask YOU to pay them money not the other way !

we forgive MS because they fix THEIR MISTAKES for FREE ... now you ask us to pay for your mistakes MS ?

 

[jp7189]

What is there "completely different"?
And who said that Win10 kernel can't do that scheduling? It's just that they don't want to add it to Win10 to give an excuse for forced update to Win11. It's as ridiculous as requirement for TPM.

The Win11's kernel and the release time frame were both heavily influenced by Intel's first heterogeneous CPU and integration with Thread Director. If you think it's super easy to just update an OS for that new paradigm, consider that it took over two years of development to bring something similar to Linux which only just starting approaching Win11 efficiency with Thread Director in Feb of this year. As for Win10, it seems perfectly reasonable to me to not put that much effort in to new features on software that already has a well defined life cycle and end of life.

 

[apiltch]

So this is basically Microsoft blackmailing Windows 10 users.

1. Move to Windows 11 for free if hardware supported and give us all your telemetry data and we start showing you ads.
2. Buy new hardware from our OEM friends, pay the hidden Windows tax for a "free" licence and give us all your telemetry data and we start showing you ads.
3. Pay us to keep a perfectly good OS secure that you got free or via the Windows tax when equipment was new and is still perfectly good or when you purchased Windows licences and give us all your telemetry data and we start showing you ads.
4. Do nothing and hope you don't get infected by security holes we created in of poor quality coding.
5. Look to a Linux derivative and tell Microsoft to go stick Windows up Satya Nadella 💩
6. and my personal recommendation, download the Windows 11 ISO, disable all of Microsoft dirty activation tricks and enjoy your computer, while flipping the bird at Satya Nadella.

How about a guide on no.6 TH for those who need assistance, if you have the guts, it's not illegal !!!

For number 6, see this https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/windows-11-free-or-cheap

 

[Amdlova]

Don't fell any difference with the 12700 13500 13600 14600 14700 using windows 10 or windows 11.
Thread director may have some issues on first versions of windows 10.
On windows 10 have less DPC issues, system are more responsive to input.
tried everything to get rid of windows 11 dpc issues. Sound card, Optanes, disable all power states and still got some spikes on the sound.

 

[setx]

The Win11's kernel and the release time frame were both heavily influenced by Intel's first heterogeneous CPU and integration with Thread Director.

And that tell us nothing about changes to kernel.
"Intel's first heterogeneous CPU" is first only for Intel. ARM had it for a long time and through Windows-on-ARM efforts kernel should've supported it also long before Intel chips.

 

[DSzymborski]

yea right , this will open the way for MS to intentionally put security flaws in each update then ask you to pay for extended update ... and the circle continues on and on and on and on ...

I thought that a Product should be PERFECT and without any issue , if you have a security problem , People should ask YOU to pay them money not the other way !

we forgive MS because they fix THEIR MISTAKES for FREE ... now you ask us to pay for your mistakes MS ?

What do you think the price of an OS would be if the company offering it had to support the OS for eternity and have to pay you every time a security update was needed?

 

[Makaveli]

With this move from Microsoft for all those EOL computers that can't make the Windows 11 cutoff they can at least have a path forward with patches past the official EOL for windows 10.

$30 a year is a drop in the bucket if your not ready to do the full hardware shuffle to stay in the game with windows 11.

I may do it just because Windows 11 is still inferior to Win 10 performance wise.

 

[Misgar]

I will pay 30 us per year if I can keep away from windows 11. My valve save us from the pain (windows 11)

Take care! It might not be "30 us per year". It might only be for one year.

To quote from the Microsoft web site:

And for the first time ever, we’re introducing an ESU program for personal use as well. The ESU program for consumers will be a one-year option available for $30. Program enrollment will be available closer to the end of support in 2025.

I've underlined the section which implies you cannot necessarily expect more than one year's support. If Microsoft do provide further support after October 2026, you might find the cost goes up in the second year and again in the third year. Who knows?

This article dated September 27, 2024 claims the cost of support for business users will double, then double again, to a grand total of $427 per machine over three years. I've no idea if these business user prices are still valid or if Microsoft has changed the cost recently.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/have-...have-5-options-before-support-ends-next-year/

Business customers will need to pay dearly to stick with Windows 10. A license for the Extended Security Updates (ESU) program is sold as a subscription. For the first year, the cost is $61. For year two, the price doubles, and it doubles again for year three. The blog post doesn't do the math on those, probably because the total is uncomfortably high. A three-year ESU subscription will cost $61 + $122 + $244, for a total of $427.

In any event, support for operating systems used by large companies, e.g. Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2019, extends to January 9, 2029, i.e. still more than 4 years away. So much for the October 25, 2025 deadline.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-enterprise-ltsc-2019
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-enterprise-ltsc-2021

I don't know the "cost per seat" for LTSC 2019 and LTSC 2021 (which ends earlier in 2027), but it might be less than keeping bog standard (non LTSC) Windows 10 patched.

I still have a few (off line) machines with Windows XP and Windows 7, for old software and hardware. I shall, no doubt, keep a number of old machines on Windows 10. At the moment I'm sticking with Windows 10, because most of my computers pre-date 2017. Only my 2600X, 3800X and 7950X, plus two laptops will run Windows 11 without any Rufus tweaks.

 

[newtechldtech]

What do you think the price of an OS would be if the company offering it had to support the OS for eternity and have to pay you every time a security update was needed?

support against their mistakes ? they should be lucky I dont sue them for selling me not perfect codes.

This is not support , this is SECURITY FIXING.

Support for hardware to work and drivers and so on is another issue. not this one.

 

[stonecarver]

The best solution for the EOL of windows 10 and to side step the $30.00 next move from Microsoft for extended protection for the updates is to make a time capsule of Windows 10 right before the 2025 cutoff.

All you need is 2 SSD's or older HDD's

Take one of the drives and put into the PC your trying to extend using Windows 10 on past 2025.

Fully install Windows 10 than do all the updated, Me I would also go get the installer's for C++ Redistribute 2010 and 2015 on the drive but wait for a later date to use if I needed. Make sure there the off line installers.

Get the latest graphic drivers but just park them on the drive for install later if needed.

Make sure your new freshly minted Windows 10 is registered and get the latest out next year of whatever web browser you like to use installed.

I also like to secure the off line installers for the browser parked on the drive for the future.
Now clone to that second drive I mentioned by having two.

Put the two drives in a safe spot and your golden.

Sure past 2025 EOL if you go this route like I will do and have since Xp to Windows 7 and now Windows 10 you can keep running on your terms.

I'm more anal so I use the two backup SSD's method and to this day has worked as I can clone the backups back on to my older than dirt machines and keep rolling.
Were going on 5 years that EOL happened for Windows 7 and have never had a security issue happen without having patching that ended in 2019.

I clone the copy back on more to be fresh from user gunk " ME" than it got hosed by a virus or attack.

These options I pointed out can be used by us power users on Tom's but there is the larger group of people who know only how to hit the power button and click the mouse that I feel the $30.00 extension will appealed to the most.

 

[Misgar]

Were going on 5 years that EOL happened for Windows 7 and have never had a security issue happen without having patching that ended in 2019.

If you've never (knowingly) had any security issues using Windows 7 online after 2019, what's to stop you using Windows 10 online after October 2025?

Are you saying that Windows Updates are a waste of time?

 

[DSzymborski]

support against their mistakes ? they should be lucky I dont sue them for selling me not perfect codes.

Yeah, I'm sure they totally consider themselves extremely lucky.

 

[stonecarver]

Are you saying that Windows Updates are a waste of time?

No not at all.

But were at a crossroads of a forced choice of being prepared and having a backup plan to keep older OS working with ageing PC's.

But window 10 by the time it gets the axe in 2025 will have 10 years of already patched history under it's belt.

If this was a day one release of Windows 10 from 2015 NO I would never trust doing what I suggested.
The simple breakdown is were facing three choices.

Throw in the towel if you have a system that can't run windows 11 to keep Microsoft updates running.

= New PC with new OS Windows 11 with updates.

If you want Window 10 updates past 2025 EOL swipe the credit card.

Or have a back up plan to keep rolling and know there have been 10 years of update patched into Windows 10 when we hit that mark in 2025.

Even worse case scenario lets say it's 2029 you get the worst virus the internet could throw at you. Clone your back up back onto your system and keep rolling.
Most of us know what we were doing at the time we all have been taken down from something on the web.
Stay away from what took you down If it comes to that.

 

[Sluggotg]

The Win11's kernel and the release time frame were both heavily influenced by Intel's first heterogeneous CPU and integration with Thread Director. If you think it's super easy to just update an OS for that new paradigm, consider that it took over two years of development to bring something similar to Linux which only just starting approaching Win11 efficiency with Thread Director in Feb of this year. As for Win10, it seems perfectly reasonable to me to not put that much effort in to new features on software that already has a well defined life cycle and end of life.

Have you tried Process Lasso from Bitsum on Win 10? It works very well and is reasonably priced. You make is sound like it is insanely difficult to manage threads on Win 10. Yet here is a very nice program with a good price that fixes the "Thread management issue" on Win 10.

 

[Misgar]

Even worse case scenario lets say it's 2029 you get the worst virus the internet could throw at you. Clone your back up back onto your system and keep rolling.

So after a virus attack, you've restored your Windows 10 to its former unpatched glory, but in the mean time:

The hackers have downloaded personal data and made blackmail threats.

Ransomware has encrypted all your family photos/movies/documents and paying $300 in Bitcoin has failed to decrypt any files (good thing you kept off line backups).

Your email and social media accounts have been taken over.

Your bank accounts have been emptied.

You've suffered identity theft.

Your phone has been hacked.

Perhaps it might not be such a good idea to use an unpatched Windows 10 machine on the internet?

When I boot up old Windows 7 and XP machines, I don't connect them to the Internet. I'll do the same with my Windows 10 machines when security patches end.

For internet access and downloads, I'll use a patched operating system, even if it means installing Windows 11.

Better safe than sorry.

Most of us know what we were doing at the time we all have been taken down from something on the web.

Thank goodness I've not suffered a Ransomware Attack (yet?). It can take weeks after the infection before you discover files are being encrypted. How are you supposed to know which specific web site caused the problem and avoid it in future?

 

[jp7189]

Have you tried Process Lasso from Bitsum on Win 10? It works very well and is reasonably priced. You make is sound like it is insanely difficult to manage threads on Win 10. Yet here is a very nice program with a good price that fixes the "Thread management issue" on Win 10.

Sure it's possible... if you have admin rights, understand the processes to know where to stick them, and your workloads aren't dynamic which would require reshuffling. For 99.99% of everyone else, Thread Director on Win11 is the answer.

 

[stonecarver]

The simple breakdown is were facing three choices.

Throw in the towel if you have a system that can't run windows 11 to keep Microsoft updates running.

= New PC with new OS Windows 11 with updates.

If you want Window 10 updates past 2025 EOL swipe the credit card.

If you run past the EOL going forward yes all those issues could happen same as a patched windows 11 could get attacked as well.

I gave an option on how to keep as best one can running after Windows 10 EOL.

There is always that option of paying the $30. a year to keep 10 patched.

 

[jp7189]

And that tell us nothing about changes to kernel.
"Intel's first heterogeneous CPU" is first only for Intel. ARM had it for a long time and through Windows-on-ARM efforts kernel should've supported it also long before Intel chips.

I suppose at a high level it all looks the same, but scheduling different cores isn't as easy as a toggle switch to turn it on or off. ARM and x86 are completely different. AMD normal/x3d are scheduled completely differently from Intel P/E cores. Frankly, AMD core parking driver is a pretty clumsy way to push threads around, but that's not far off from how Intel P/E cores are scheduled in Win10. Win11 recieves feedback at the instruction level of threads in flight and makes realtime decisions. For example a thread from an in focus window is always sent to P on Win10 even when the thread issues mwait and is sitting idle. Win11 can push that thread to E and free up P and/or package power. Can you do that on Win10 with process lasso as someone else pointed out? yeah kinda. Can you do that with millisecond precision? no.