News Microsoft's draconian Windows 11 restrictions will send an estimated 240 million PCs to the landfill when Windows 10 hits end of life in 2025

[Admin]

With too many outdated PCs afloat, Windows 10 EOL in late 2025 could generate massive amount of e-waste.

Microsoft's draconian Windows 11 restrictions will send an estimated 240 million PCs to the landfill when Windows 10 hits end of life in 2025 : Read more

 

[drea.drechsler]

The systems we're talking about here are still perfectly capable, many are still more powerful than low-end modern computers whether those powered by AMD or Intel.

Could this be an opening that benefits Linux? Not for corporate users of course but for home users looking for cheap computers since all they'd need is a better GPU for the entry-to-mid-level gaming most people are interested in.

I would certainly love it to be the case. Microsoft creating the seeds of it's own demise.

 

[mac_angel]

no it won't. People aren't going to throw away their PC/laptop just because Windows 10 isn't updating any more. Most people absolutely hate the updates as it is. Not to mention the countless workarounds to install Windows 11 on pretty much any PC/laptop.
Windows 10/11 is literally the biggest Spyware platform in the entire world.

 

[drea.drechsler]

no it won't. People aren't going to throw away their PC/laptop just because Windows 10 isn't updating any more. Most people absolutely hate the updates as it is...

umm...you presented a scenario where people might just continue (perhaps cluelessly) on, loving it that the annoying updates have stopped.

Personally, on the old system I'm keeping around I'll just get a decent anti-virus package and keep it updated. I'm not really a risky user anyway. But I'd love to move it to Linux just for the fun of it.

 

[xyster]

I'm sure people will be happy that they no longer get nagged about Windows Updates; a blessing in disguise.

Linux is also a great option for old PCs; Mint, Pop, Ubuntu. It might be more annoying for some laptops, as support there is more rocky I hear.

There's also ways to disable TPM lock outs, however annoying.

But yeah, Windows 11 puts in place some really annoying restrictions. My guess is they will extend support for a bit more, and then when no one is looking, drop the requirements needed to upgrade to Windows 11.

 

[edzieba]

Could this be an opening that benefits Linux?

No. No more than the transition from Windows 8 to Windows 10, Windows 7 to Windows 8, Windows XP to Windows 7, Windows ME to Windows XP, Windows 98 to Windows ME, and so on.
Every new windows version we get the usual "But my PC is perfectly good! "[NEW WINDOWS VERSION] sucks, [IMMEDIATELY PRIOR WINDOWS VERSION] was perfect and should never be changed!" "the waste!" headlines. We'll see the exact same when Windows 11 is replaced with Windows 11+1.

 

[sadsteve]

umm...you presented a scenario where people might just continue (perhaps cluelessly) on, loving it that the annoying updates have stopped.

Personally, on the old system I'm keeping around I'll just get a decent anti-virus package and keep it updated. I'm not really a risky user anyway. But I'd love to move it to Linux just for the fun of it.

Do the switch to Linux. I did it about 6 months after the Windows 8.0 fiasco. All my general computing is done in Linux and I keep a Windows VM around for games that won't work under Linux.

 

[hannibal]

Some people still use win7… people don`t care. They will use win10 long after the support ends. The rest will either by pass the restriction or go to the Linux.

 

[JeffreyP55]

With too many outdated PCs afloat, Windows 10 EOL in late 2025 could generate massive amount of e-waste.

Microsoft's draconian Windows 11 restrictions will send an estimated 240 million PCs to the landfill when Windows 10 hits end of life in 2025 : Read more

Built some cheap Intel LGA 775 rigs for my wifes business some years back. They are used mostly for data entry and mild web surfing. Maxed out the whooping 8 gigs of RAM and bought some cheap decent video cards. Cheap dates that are still running to this day. The only reason to retire them for Linux service is because of Microsoft.
However I started build new AMD machines to eventually replace the 775's.

​

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Mmm, no it won't. Even a totally out of date system, say a Windows 7 based system from 2011, if it has a Sandy Bridge i5-2300 or better (quad core) is still very capable for a number of tasks, and if you're worried about security you can always install a Windows-like version of Linux on it, like Linux Mint.

But I will agree that the requirement for TPM 2.0 should have been made illegal by the US and especially by the EU since for pretty much everyone it makes zero sense except for Microsoft to provide a hard cutoff for official backwards compatibility, and that should fall under the "planned obsolescence" ban.

 

[USAFRet]

But I will agree that the requirement for TPM 2.0 should have been made illegal by the US and especially by the EU since for pretty much everyone it makes zero sense except for Microsoft to provide a hard cutoff for official backwards compatibility, and that should fall under the "planned obsolescence" ban.

MS was requesting/pushing for that TPM thing for years. Long before Win 11.
The manufacturers pushed back with "Yeah, we don't wanna do that".

 

[thestryker]

TPM isn't even the predominant problem, though it certainly is one, as TPM 2.0 became available in 2014. Microsoft arbitrarily locked out older CPUs for no apparent reason beyond the default security settings really thrash performance on them even though it messes with supported CPUs too.

The part that bothers me more than anything else is that the only way to update on older systems is circumvent the requirements. There's no good reason for Microsoft to make so many systems more vulnerable when they easily can run the new OS.

 

[digitalgriffin]

I'm not happy about it either. But it might not be as bad as evereyone predicts. Even my top of the line Z77 motherboard gave up the ghost after 10 years. So some hardware just natrually dies. And all lthe Sandybridge CPUs OC to 4.4->5Ghz will eventually get electron decay and stop functioning as well.

 

[Deleted member 2962262]

As others are suggesting, it's also possible Windows 10 EOL in late 2025 could generate massive spike in linux installations / usage.
Many people stuck on older PCs just don't have the money to throw them out and buy new.

 

[TJ Hooker]

TPM isn't even the predominant problem, though it certainly is one, as TPM 2.0 became available in 2014. Microsoft arbitrarily locked out older CPUs for no apparent reason beyond the default security settings really thrash performance on them even though it messes with supported CPUs too.

The part that bothers me more than anything else is that the only way to update on older systems is circumvent the requirements. There's no good reason for Microsoft to make so many systems more vulnerable when they easily can run the new OS.

FYI, the stock Win11 installation image doesn't check that your CPU is on the supported list. Or at least it didn't a while back when I tried with with my Skylake build a year-ish ago.

Win10 was actually more restrictive in terms of how recent your CPU had to be to be officially supported. But maybe they were more lax about offering the in-Windows update to people running Win7/8 even if your CPU was technically too old, I don't know.

 

[USAFRet]

As others are suggesting, it's also possible Windows 10 EOL in late 2025 could generate massive spike in linux installations / usage.
Many people stuck on older PCs just don't have the money to throw them out and buy new.

"People" have been saying that for every new Windows release since forever.

Win 11
Win 10
8, 7 (not so much), Vista, XP, etc, etc, etc....

Whole lotta woofin' and tweetin'...not much actual Linux movement.

 

[USAFRet]

Win10 was actually more restrictive in terms of how recent your CPU had to be to be officially supported. But maybe they were more lax about offering the in-Windows update to people running Win7/8 even if your CPU was technically too old, I don't know.

Actually, no.
Win 10 will run on a potato.

Discussion - What's the oldest and/or cheesiest system you have Win 10 installed on?

Mine is a 2009 era Toshiba Satellite L305-S5955 Celeron 900, 2.2GHz, 2GB RAM, 250GB HDD. The only upgrade from stock was a warranty replacement of the original 160GB HDD to the current 250GB. Currently v1903, Build 18362.295 https://www.cnet.com/products/toshiba-satellite-l305-s5955/specs/...

forums.tomshardware.com

Additionally, 10 was the first time you could Upgrade from a previous version for free.

Previous, any version change cost money.

 

[Deleted member 2962262]

"People" have been saying that for every new Windows release since forever.

Win 11
Win 10
8, 7 (not so much), Vista, XP, etc, etc, etc....

Whole lotta woofin' and tweetin'...not much actual Linux movement.

There's a grain of truth in that but the barrier to Windows 11 upgrade seems higher than was previously set - many high-quality, not-so-old systems are blocked. For these cases I think there is more of a material incentive than previously to invest a little time in learning a different OS - we'll see soon enough.

We may also see a surge in cybercrime, as users with older PCs who can't afford an upgrade just stick to systems that are no longer up to date.

 

[Deleted member 2962262]

"People" have been saying that for every new Windows release since forever.

Win 11
Win 10
8, 7 (not so much), Vista, XP, etc, etc, etc....

Whole lotta woofin' and tweetin'...not much actual Linux movement.

There is also some data around suggesting that maybe there has been a small increase in Linux usage over the last little while - perhaps we're at 3% of desktops now (depending on what population you look at, there may have been a decline in the proportion of US linux users on pc):

Linux could be 3% of global desktops. What happened to Windows?

Linux gains (or loses), Windows slumps, macOS jumps—it's been quite a year.

arstechnica.com

Steam's data is interesting - the last graph in the following (looking at just the English language population) is a little striking:

Steam Linux Market Share | GamingOnLinux

Steam Linux Market Share

www.gamingonlinux.com

 

[USAFRet]

There is also some data around suggesting that maybe there has been a small increase in Linux usage over the last little while - perhaps we're at 3% of desktops now (depending on what population you look at, there may have been a decline in the proportion of US linux users on pc):

Yes, incremental moves up and down, year on year.

Contrary to the cries of "YOLOTD".


The number of people that "buy" a standalone Windows, or upgrade their existing install, is very small, compared to people that simply buy a PC and use whatever OS it comes with.

 

[Deleted member 2962262]

Yes, incremental moves up and down, year on year.

Contrary to the cries of "YOLOTD".


The number of people that "buy" a standalone Windows, or upgrade their existing install, is very small, compared to people that simply buy a PC and use whatever OS it comes with.

The data actually suggests a small upward trend, not fluctuations around a stationary point:
"Five years ago, Linux made up 1.69 percent of Statcounter's June numbers. In the year between June 2022 and 2023, Linux unsteadily crept up from 2.42 to 3.07 percent, jumping past 3 percent for the first time between May and June. If you regard Chrome OS as a Linux system, you could add that 4.13 percent and get to 7.2 percent. "

The quality / usability of many of the systems to be impacted by the Windows 10 EOL (in late 2025) to me looks different - there are a lot of good quality systems there, that doesn't look like same old same old to me.

 

[USAFRet]

The data actually suggests a small upward trend, not fluctuations around a stationary point:
"Five years ago, Linux made up 1.69 percent of Statcounter's June numbers. In the year between June 2022 and 2023, Linux unsteadily crept up from 2.42 to 3.07 percent, jumping past 3 percent for the first time between May and June. If you regard Chrome OS as a Linux system, you could add that 4.13 percent and get to 7.2 percent. "

The quality / usability of many of the systems to be impacted by the Windows 10 EOL (in late 2025) to me looks different - there are a lot of good quality systems there, that doesn't look like same old same old to me.

We shall see...

The question is....were these new Linux uses a repurposing of a system with a prev Windows install, or are they simply new systems?

The end of support of Win 10 may see a surge of Linux. But personally, I doubt it.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Actually, no.
Win 10 will run on a potato.

Discussion - What's the oldest and/or cheesiest system you have Win 10 installed on?

Mine is a 2009 era Toshiba Satellite L305-S5955 Celeron 900, 2.2GHz, 2GB RAM, 250GB HDD. The only upgrade from stock was a warranty replacement of the original 160GB HDD to the current 250GB. Currently v1903, Build 18362.295 https://www.cnet.com/products/toshiba-satellite-l305-s5955/specs/...

forums.tomshardware.com

Additionally, 10 was the first time you could Upgrade from a previous version for free.

Previous, any version change cost money.

No, I meant CPUs that were officially listed by Microsoft as being supported, as listed here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements#windows-client-edition-processors

Obviously there are many CPUs not on that list that will run Win10 just fine, just as there are for Win11 (especially if you bypass the TPM requirement).

Edit: And I mean more restrictive in terms of how recent of processor was required relative to the release date of the OS.

 

[thestryker]

The data actually suggests a small upward trend, not fluctuations around a stationary point:
"Five years ago, Linux made up 1.69 percent of Statcounter's June numbers. In the year between June 2022 and 2023, Linux unsteadily crept up from 2.42 to 3.07 percent, jumping past 3 percent for the first time between May and June. If you regard Chrome OS as a Linux system, you could add that 4.13 percent and get to 7.2 percent. "

Steam Deck came out early 2022 and has been a primary driver of increased Linux adoption in Steam Hardware Reports.

 

[USAFRet]

No, I meant CPUs that were officially listed by Microsoft as being supported, as listed here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements#windows-client-edition-processors

Obviously there are many CPUs not on that list that will run Win10 just fine, just as there are for Win11 (especially if you bypass the TPM requirement).

Right.
That was the 'official list'.

But just about anything that ran WIn 7, could install and run 10.
With zero workarounds like you have to do with unsupported hardware and Win 11.