Question Minerail Oil PC

[LuftKorps]

I have read all topics in Here, I saw LTT videos and even so, I found very few and very old info about it.

I want to build a mineral oil submerse PC because I think is cool. Simple as that.

To keep it short, my current plan is:

High end PC. (RTX 2080ti)
Aquarium made of glass, around 60cm Image here

*I really, really dont want to use a radiator. I think i cant get away with that:

My fear:
1- Glass break due the weight of motherboard, etc.
2- Oil corrodes the glue (silicon I think) and spill all over the place.

Idea: try to substitute the back plate and the bottom for metal ones, for better heat exchange...


Anyway, any tips of experienced users would be appreciated.
As soon I get it going I post pics and updates here.

 

[Supahos]

You're inviting a lot of risk for something cool. There's definitely a risk of some oil getting inside the motherboard and ruining the whole thing. It is Definitely possible but one simple mistake or oversight and you've got an oily paperweight. You'll definitely need some sort of radiator as otherwise it'll eventually heat the oil continuously with no means of cooling it. Just remember mineral oil isn't nearly as efficient as water at transferring heat, so whatever size rad you'd need for a water loop would likely need to be nearly twice as big for oil... And likely different pumps to pump a thicker and different fluid

 

[King Dranzer]

It is more of a pain than being practical. Recommend going for it only for fun and short run usage with very low budget components as experiment. Not suitable for long run usage. For high end usage recommend going for Custom loop water-cooling and if want it to be unique get a custom case done from scratch.

 

[LuftKorps]

Not suitable for long run usage.

Why not?
I mean, yea, its a pain to replace a piece or something, but since I plan to make it sealed, I will have no dust, and no reason at all to open it more than once in a year for upgrades or something...

 

[King Dranzer]

Why not?
I mean, yea, its a pain to replace a piece or something, but since I plan to make it sealed, I will have no dust, and no reason at all to open it more than once in a year for upgrades or something...

As long as you are comfortable with replacing everything that is submerged under the oil if things fail due to reaction or electrocution. I know chances are low but compared to air cooled or even liquid cooled PC the chances are considerably high. Breaking of glass suddenly is last of your tension as before breaking into pieces there will be crack and small leak to warn you ahead of complete collapse. If you don't react to that leak and neglect it then definitely it will be a big issue.

 

[TJ Hooker]

You're inviting a lot of risk for something cool. There's definitely a risk of some oil getting inside the motherboard and ruining the whole thing. It is Definitely possible but one simple mistake or oversight and you've got an oily paperweight.

What do you mean "oil getting inside the motherboard and ruining the whole thing"?

 

[tennis2]

How about this - Run the mineral oil inside a 2-walled tank. That way the PC is in air, but you still get the illusion of it being submerged.

 

[USAFRet]

First question - Why are you wanting to build this? What is your desired end result?

If it's for the "hey, that's neat" factor...go for it. Take some older parts, plop into the tank with a bunch of blinken lights...BLING!
If for some other reason...Why?

 

[LuftKorps]

First question - Why are you wanting to build this? What is your desired end result?

If it's for the "hey, that's neat" factor...go for it. Take some older parts, plop into the tank with a bunch of blinken lights...BLING!
If for some other reason...Why?

I want to build a mineral oil submerse PC because I think is cool. Simple as that.

 

[g-unit1111]

First question - Why are you wanting to build this? What is your desired end result?

If it's for the "hey, that's neat" factor...go for it. Take some older parts, plop into the tank with a bunch of blinken lights...BLING!
If for some other reason...Why?

Yeah I agree with this. If you want to experiment, start small. Find a junk build off eBay or Craigslist and then build from there in a mineral oil cooled PC to see if it works for you. You don't want to spend hundreds or thousands for something that's widely considered an experiment and have it wind up as a disaster. The absolute last thing you want to do is to literally fry a $1300 GPU because you think it "looks cool".

But on the other hand if you buy a junk system second hand and the build fails then you don't lose out on much. If you build a high end system and it fails, you're out that money plus it most likely won't be covered under warranty.

 

[LuftKorps]

have it wind up as a disaster

Why you said that!? I mean, every single one I saw worked. Its a lot of work, for sure, but I saw none fail.

 

[USAFRet]

*I really, really dont want to use a radiator. I think i cant get away with that:

It needs a rad or some other heat transfer device, to remove the heat from the oil and transfer that out to the room air volume.
Otherwise, you just end up with a tank of extremely hot oil.

 

[USAFRet]

Why you said that!? I mean, every single one I saw worked. Its a lot of work, for sure, but I saw none fail.

You only see the successful ones. No one puts a failed experiment, or the first 10 attempts, on utube.

 

[g-unit1111]

Why you said that!? I mean, every single one I saw worked. Its a lot of work, for sure, but I saw none fail.

Mineral oil cooling is an experiment and it's not exactly something you can jump into the first time and expect it to work right out of the box. Probably the reason that the builds in these videos didn't fail is because they were built by professionals who have lots of experience in experimenting with PC parts, and they probably built one or more test builds before they built the final product that you see in the videos. It's not like they just instantly came together, the builders in those videos had a lot more experience. They most likely also had a lot of backup parts available at their disposal when putting these together.

The thing is, you're an individual building here, which means that you have your individual budget. It's not like you are building a PC for a corporation for advertising purposes, which is what these videos were made for. The people building those PCs like you saw in the videos most likely had much larger budgets which meant that they have more leeway in what they were doing. You don't and I don't. Which means that if you submerge a $1300 GPU in mineral oil, and it fails, guess what? You're out that $1300 and it most likely won't be covered under warrant.

Building an experimental build such as this is NOT the same as building an air or even a liquid cooled PC. You're talking about fully submerging your PC in oil, which has the potential for a lot of ways for something to go wrong, vs something that has very few ways that it could go wrong. Like I said, start small and work your way up. That is the best way to achieve something like this.

 

[USAFRet]

"Failed" includes:
micro hotspots under the CPU. Oil, being far more viscous than air, can leave nonmoving bubbles under the CPU. Which never see any oil flow.
Or oil seeping up the mouse cable due to capillary action, peeing oil all over your desk.
Or burning out the GPU fan motor, because the fan is being told to spin at 800 RPM and trying to, but can only manage 20 RPM.

We're not saying don't do it.
But rather practice with cheap parts first. Rather than trying it with uber expensive parts for the first time.

 

[g-unit1111]

We're not saying don't do it.
But rather practice with cheap parts first. Rather than trying it with uber expensive parts for the first time.

Yeah that's what I was trying to say in the first place. Start out small with cheap parts that if they get ruined, you won't be as attached to them. Then you can keep going from there.

 

[LuftKorps]

Well, to be fair a RTX would be the absolute last thing I would submerge, after a lot of tests. But I dont feel like buying a old and dirty PC just to see if it works and have to throw all all it away. Its a lot of work and a good chunk of money "wasted".

To prevent the capillary action, the mobo connectors would be outside the oil, and I would use all wireless. The only cable going out being the DP cable to monitor and the only cable going in would be the PSU power supply. Im not sure If I will submerge the PSU or leave the plug dry too.

I have a good experience building PCs. Off course Im not a LTT, but Im not a newbie either, so I know I could overcome the possible problems with time.
My main concern is catastrophic fails, like glass break or short-out due some component getting corroded and making the oil conductive or something.

 

[USAFRet]

Well, to be fair a RTX would be the absolute last thing I would submerge, after a lot of tests. But I dont feel like buying a old and dirty PC just to see if it works and have to throw all all it away. Its a lot of work and a good chunk of money "wasted".

To prevent the capillary action, the mobo connectors would be outside the oil, and I would use all wireless. The only cable going out being the DP cable to monitor and the only cable going in would be the PSU power supply. Im not sure If I will submerge the PSU or leave the plug dry too.

I have a good experience building PCs. Off course Im not a LTT, but Im not a newbie either, so I know I could overcome the possible problems with time.
My main concern is catastrophic fails, like glass break or short-out due some component getting corroded and making the oil conductive or something.

An old practice PC is not "a lot of money".
Free, or maybe $50 craigslist.

For your other comments...that is exactly why you try it first with expendable parts. Because "I'm not sure..."
FOr the glass breaking? If it is an actual aquarium, it won't break. Oil is not that much heavier per volume than water.


But if/when you build this, we expect to see a full build log. Along with all the hard and easy parts, and gotchas and benefits along the way.
Stuff like...
What oil did you use, where did you get it, how much did it cost...
What, if anything, broke?
How is the overall system performance? Better or worse?
Would you do it again?

To either warn or entice others to do it...

 

[g-unit1111]

Well, to be fair a RTX would be the absolute last thing I would submerge, after a lot of tests. But I dont feel like buying a old and dirty PC just to see if it works and have to throw all all it away. Its a lot of work and a good chunk of money "wasted".

Here's the thing - it's not wasted if it's a learning experience. You could experiment with something that's like 6 - 7 years old and then see if it's something you want to continue or not.

To prevent the capillary action, the mobo connectors would be outside the oil, and I would use all wireless. The only cable going out being the DP cable to monitor and the only cable going in would be the PSU power supply. Im not sure If I will submerge the PSU or leave the plug dry too.

Yeah that's where it gets tricky. Like I said this isn't a mere air or liquid cooled PC, you're talking about full submersion and that's something that requires a lot more planning.

I have a good experience building PCs. Off course Im not a LTT, but Im not a newbie either, so I know I could overcome the possible problems with time.
My main concern is catastrophic fails, like glass break or short-out due some component getting corroded and making the oil conductive or something.

That's why most people don't do this. Even experienced builders like myself and nearly everyone else here. It's an experiment with a whole lot of ways that it could go wrong. If you want to take this on, we can't stop you, but at the same time you should be aware of the pitfalls and possible outcomes of attempting such an experiment.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Just want to point out that it will probably be a huge pain if you ever want to take the PC out and clean it. Meaning that it will be very inconvenient if you ever want to upgrade/modify the PC, move it, or sell it (or any of the components). Maybe you are already aware of this though.

I can't think of anything that would go immediately and disastrously wrong if you make a mistake off the top of my head (although I agree that having anything mechanical like fans trying to run in the oil may not end well). More that if you make a mistake or change your mind about something it'd be a big pain to correct it. E.g. you decide you don't want some part of the PC submerged after all, but now that part is an oily mess you have to deal with.

 

[King Dranzer]

Just want to point out that it will probably be a huge pain if you ever want to take the PC out and clean it. Meaning that it will be very inconvenient if you ever want to upgrade/modify the PC, move it, or sell it (or any of the components). Maybe you are already aware of this though.

I can't think of anything that would go immediately and disastrously wrong if you make a mistake off the top of my head (although I agree that having anything mechanical like fans trying to run in the oil may not end well). More that if you make a mistake or change your mind about something it'd be a big pain to correct it. E.g. you decide you don't want some part of the PC submerged after all, but now that part is an oily mess you have to deal with.

That will not be a pain as it will not be possible at all to clean without damaging components trying to do so. Selling is out of question. Upgrading and Moving it are only things which will be painful to do.

Initially he will not face problem but over time when he plans to upgrade component there is huge possibility of him running into problem.

All the cases on net that I have heard of mineral cooling don't bother to upgrade individual components, they usually upgrade entire system and scrap the old one.

 

[Karadjgne]

Linus build cost well over $10K. It was nothing more than a conversation piece, and bragging rights that it was done. The hardest part was actually getting the mineral oil of sufficient purity and in sufficient volume. There's too much crap on the market with additives to reduce or cover stink, lower viscosity, even colors.

Even Linus ran a cpu cooler with a fan, just to provide circulation, none was otherwise needed. Mineral oil is a petrochemical solvent, anything grease or oil lubricated is at its mercy, that includes the fan motor and bearings. For both the cpu and gpu. You can expect to be replacing them at least yearly, if not also replacing the entire mineral bath when that grease, which is electrically conductive, contaminates the entire build.

Now if you've got close to $2K a year to dump into maintenance and cleaning a 'cool' pc, go for it, I'd love to see the build logs and performance stats, temps etc and all the trials, tribulations and especially bloopers, but me personally I can find much better stuff to spend my meager earnings on. Good luck with this.

 

[King Dranzer]

Linus build cost well over $10K. It was nothing more than a conversation piece, and bragging rights that it was done. The hardest part was actually getting the mineral oil of sufficient purity and in sufficient volume. There's too much crap on the market with additives to reduce or cover stink, lower viscosity, even colors.

Even Linus ran a cpu cooler with a fan, just to provide circulation, none was otherwise needed. Mineral oil is a petrochemical solvent, anything grease or oil lubricated is at its mercy, that includes the fan motor and bearings. For both the cpu and gpu. You can expect to be replacing them at least yearly, if not also replacing the entire mineral bath when that grease, which is electrically conductive, contaminates the entire build.

That is exactly what my point was(bit elaborated and detailed). Mineral Oil PC is only recommended if one is fine with upgrading the entire system and not a specific component frequently(yearly or a year and a half) and sadly the people who do that are usually competitive gamers and sadly they prefer having higher clock speeds and push their system to its limit which cannot be attained with mineral PC. Second case where Mineral Oil PC will make sense is if the PC is build for experimentation and display builds.

 

[LuftKorps]

Great insight

Even Linus ran a cpu cooler with a fan, just to provide circulation, none was otherwise needed. Mineral oil is a petrochemical solvent, anything grease or oil lubricated is at its mercy, that includes the fan motor and bearings. For both the cpu and gpu. You can expect to be replacing them at least yearly, if not also replacing the entire mineral bath when that grease, which is electrically conductive, contaminates the entire build.

Very nice thing you pointed here. But I believe the mineral oil itself is a lubricant, and the fans will be full of it, so I see no problem and no need to replace them after the grease gets corroded. They will work. Maybe this is why I saw no one complains about this on their builds. BUT, the corroded grease can indeed make the oil looks dirt. That would be unfortunate.

Even if I have to change the oil once a year, even being kinda expensive, its a price I'm wiling to pay. I had no problems finding suppliers in my country, Brazil. It seems be a good oil, but who knows right?!


My main concern: Radiator: I dont want to use one, for a number of reasons.

What makes me think I can get away with it:

1. My room have AC, and I turn it on everytime I feel hot.
2. I dont need to make overclocks, the "auto" overclock on GPU and CPU is enough for me.
3. My aquarium of choice would be made of glass, with 10gal-39L, (using a 15.5gal-59L is also a option). Glass is as good as water for dissipate heat.
4. I wont be doing sessions longer than 5h of gaming.
5. I can try to use a lot of saving energy configs to try get away with a high end PC. Sleeping mode or turn if off frequently will be not inconvenient since I will be using a 970 EVO.

I read a number of people who got away without radiators using very small acrilic aquariums (insulator), but the oils sits around 50c - 80c. I'm comfortable if it gets stable even at 80c, but off course, If the heat becomes a problem, I'll have to use a radiator. I just dont want to. I know run it hot will reduce the life spam overall, but who here keeps the same gear for more than like 5 years!?


My biggest fear: Glass breaking up for some reason and destroying my room (carpet and expensive wood table).

 

[TJ Hooker]

My main concern: Radiator: I dont want to use one, for a number of reasons.

What makes me think I can get away with it:

1. My room have AC, and I turn it on everytime I feel hot.
2. I dont need to make overclocks, the "auto" overclock on GPU and CPU is enough for me.
3. My aquarium of choice would be made of glass, with 10gal-39L, (using a 15.5gal-59L is also a option). Glass is as good as water for dissipate heat.
4. I wont be doing sessions longer than 5h of gaming.
5. I can try to use a lot of saving energy configs to try get away with a high end PC. Sleeping mode or turn if off frequently will be not inconvenient since I will be using a 970 EVO.

I read a number of people who got away without radiators using very small acrilic aquariums (insulator), but the oils sits around 50c - 80c. I'm comfortable if it gets stable even at 80c, but off course, If the heat becomes a problem, I'll have to use a radiator. I just dont want to. I know run it hot will reduce the life spam overall, but who here keeps the same gear for more than like 5 years!?


My biggest fear: Glass breaking up for some reason and destroying my room (carpet and expensive wood table).

Conventional PC cooling can be thought of as happening in two phases: first, the heat is conducted away from the component. This can be done directly into the heatsink, or through water which then transfers it to the radiator, which then transfers it to the air. That heated air is then removed from the system using convection. The last part is where the oil aquarium doesn't do so well. It's basically a giant heatsink (albeit one that has inferior thermal properties compared to water or a conventional heatsink), but it's not going to effectively remove that heat from the system without a radiator. It's the same idea as a passively cooled PC, which skips the 2nd phase I mentioned. They tend to use low power parts because without using fans to create convection it's tough to keep things cool.

I guess you could have a fan blowing at the aquarium but you'd still have a lot lower effective area for heat transfer compared to a radiator. Plus I don't know if having a fans standing next to it would fit with the cool-looking system you're trying to make.

Letting your oil get anywhere close to 80 C is going to result in an overheating system.

Let's look at the heat capacity of that tank of oil. Density is 0.8 g/cm^3, so 39L = 31.2 kg. Specific heat is 1.67 kJ/(kg K). Let's say you can allow your oil to reach 55 C before things start overheating, and that it starts at 25 C. Let's say your 2080 Ti system draws 400W while gaming.

The length of time until the oil reaches that temp is:
[31.2 x 1670 x (55 - 25)]/400 = 3908 s = 1.09 hours

It'll be longer than that in reality because there will be heat exchange with the room, but if you're gaming 5 hours at a time I would fully expect your oil to heat up enough during that time such that it can't properly cool your system before you're done. And once it heats up your PC is basically out of commision for any serious use for some time as you have no way of speeding up the cooling down process.