Modular Motherboard? An April Fools' Joke With Actual Promise

[Unolocogringo]

I actually have one as well. The Matrox Millenium G200:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Matrox_Millennium_G200.jpg

Wiki had a pic of it. No idea if it works or not though, and haven't been able to find the RAM chip for it.

A modular motherboard may be hard to implement, but we also shouldn't forget that companies are designing modular smartphones now. Radically different devices, but it helps to show you can make just about anything modular if you try.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/project-ara-red-flags,29905.html

It should have 8mb memory onboard and you can add the extra 8mb module for a total of 16mb ram.
My old card has 2mb onboard and sockets for 2- 1mb chips., for a total of 4 mb. Very high end for it's time with 4mb ram.
Also had a Cirrus Logic 326 Virge board wit 2 mb + 2 1mb sockets. It was what I needed for Auto-cad which came on 14 floppy disk.

 

[rauelius]

I believe this would be doable with a Mini-ITX board that can be expanded from having 1 PCIEx16 3.0 slot to two with an expansion downwards, and a memory expansion part.

 

[Martell1977]

It would be cool, but there are a lot of issues to overcome.

The thing about just changing out a module to upgrade for DDR3 to DDR4 would be nice, however you would have to change the CPU module as well as the CPU. The IMC would be an issue for something like that. (Unless the CPU is compatible with both, which I doubt going forward)

It would be very nice for the expansion area though. If you buy a mobo with just one PCI-e slot, you could just upgrade the module to one with more, or maybe just better slot spacing. Maybe even break the expansion slot area up into individual pieces and just stack them as wanted. This would be huge for people running Crossfire/SLI, being able to put as much space as they want between cards.

 

[memadmax]

Funny.

Me and a couple of co-workers were pondering this same concept a week ago...

^.^

 

[IInuyasha74]

It would be cool, but there are a lot of issues to overcome.

The thing about just changing out a module to upgrade for DDR3 to DDR4 would be nice, however you would have to change the CPU module as well as the CPU. The IMC would be an issue for something like that. (Unless the CPU is compatible with both, which I doubt going forward)

It would be very nice for the expansion area though. If you buy a mobo with just one PCI-e slot, you could just upgrade the module to one with more, or maybe just better slot spacing. Maybe even break the expansion slot area up into individual pieces and just stack them as wanted. This would be huge for people running Crossfire/SLI, being able to put as much space as they want between cards.

Like I mentioned, there would be a wiring issue as DDR3 and DDR4 don't use the same connections. Some of the wires could probably be used for both but transmitting a different protocol, but no matter what there would need to be a few additional connections for DDR4 than DDR3. An OEM could probably design a CPU slice with both. The IMC also wouldn't be an issue. Right now, Skylake supports both DDR3 and DDR4. AMD's next gen products will likely use DDR3 and DDR4 also. This is not to say at some point DDR4 will be the memory worth having on the market and AMD and Intel will remove support for DDR3, but that was just an example. The same real world applications exist for the eventual move to DDR5 or HBM.

Actually, that is an interesting thought as well about being able to arrange the various components in different ways, like stacking the PCI-E slots in different ways. It is all about giving the users more control, and this concept of modular motherboards helps to get around several limiting factors.

 

[basroil]

Two HUGE things the author here is missing... relative "cable" length/interference for connectors and UEFI complexity. The first can be solved at the expense of lower overall part density (you can't fix lengths by moving a trace around something else if it was between parts), the second would require a complete reworking of how UEFI is developed and probably require massive firmware patches to work.

Sure it's cool, but certainly not an easy thing that can be done without completely redefining how hardware specifications are met!

 

[Aslan7]

Moore's law died a few months ago when Intel dropped the ball on their manufacturing technology. We'll still progress, but not at the same rate, projections are at least 1/3 slower now. This decreases the need for such hardware. Intel is a dick company that loves to make new chips incompatible with current chipsets just to be a dick and maximize revenue. Look at AMD sockets AM2, AM2+ and AM3. They've got broad compatibility with most chips being made for at least 2 revisions of those socket standards, subject to maximum power draw. Intel won't permit a modular motherboard that works across chip generations, enthusiasts started buying xeon processors so dickwad Intel made the incompatible with enthusiast motherboards requiring a special C series motherboard to use them. The closest we could get to a modular motherboard will be access to the 20 IO lanes as a plugin card with multiple versions being available. That itself is very obtainable, and modular audio solutions aren't a stretch either. Even so I don't really see either of those things happening.

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

Moore's law died a few months ago when Intel dropped the ball on their manufacturing technology. We'll still progress, but not at the same rate, projections are at least 1/3 slower now. This decreases the need for such hardware. Intel is a dick company that loves to make new chips incompatible with current chipsets just to be a dick and maximize revenue. Look at AMD sockets AM2, AM2+ and AM3. They've got broad compatibility with most chips being made for at least 2 revisions of those socket standards, subject to maximum power draw. Intel won't permit a modular motherboard that works across chip generations, enthusiasts started buying xeon processors so dickwad Intel made the incompatible with enthusiast motherboards requiring a special C series motherboard to use them. The closest we could get to a modular motherboard will be access to the 20 IO lanes as a plugin card with multiple versions being available. That itself is very obtainable, and modular audio solutions aren't a stretch either. Even so I don't really see either of those things happening.

You ever think that maybe the reason Intel CPUs are more efficient than AMD is BECAUSE they redesign the socket/motherboard interconnects to keep things optimised?

 

[LuxZg]

Yeah, I'm a bit late (Sunday reading ), but like some other people pointed out - that's what MBOs actually are.

If you get a BASIC MBO (not that these are made anymore) that only has CPU socket, power regulation, RAM slots, and everything else in PCIe slots - you can get a MBO functions as you described.
- You need USB? 2.0? 3.0? 3.1? Type-C connector? Thunderbolt? Add-in card.
- Need COM port? Add-in card.
- Need LPT port? Add-in card.
- Need audio? Stereo? 5.1? 7.1? S/PDIF? Add-in card.
- Need LAN? Need 4 LANs? Need 10Gbe? Add-in card.
- Need graphics? Add-in card.
... those take care of the "rear I/O"

... now about the internals
- Need SATA? 10 SATA? RAID SATA? SATA-Express? eSATA? 12Gbps SAS? Add-in card.
- Need PCIe SSD? or some kind of M2/U2/whatever? Add-in card.
- ... well, not much there I guess

Also, with the FACT that you don't need "south bridge" or "chipset" at all these days, just A LOT of PCIe connections, and another FACT that you get those on CPU, and you could get A LOT MORE of them on CPU if Intel/AMD decided to do that (instead of putting graphics cores, they could add 100 PCIe lanes), and another FACT that "north-bridge" / memory controller CAN support both DDR3 & DDR4 on a CPU (Skylake), you really could quite easily have a modular MBO.

So for example:
- component #1 - base MBO with "Skylake+" support, one edge has a pin-out for both DDR3 & DDR4, and other side has pin-out for 100 PCIe lanes (basically a 100-lane PCIe-riser slot)
- component #2 - DDR3 or DDR4 module that plugs to one edge - that's only thing I have never seen before, but I doubt it's THAT much of an issue; if it is it can still be one module of #1 & #2 combined
- component #3 - PCIe module that has let's say 6 PCIe x16 slots (96 PCIe lanes total), but you can pick your own... that's actually a basic PCIe riser add-in card... not that it exists now, but it's only a matter of putting more connections, and having long enough board for it
- component #4 - 2 or 3 riser cards from PCIe x16 to let's say 4x PCIe x4 - this is already optional, but in theory you can add riser cards on PCIe as much as you want, it's just a pass-through daughter board, nothing else.. adds a bit of latency, so you wouldn't want 10 of these chained, but 1-2 is fine I guess
- component #5 - #50 - just add any PCIe card that you need, be it x1 or x16, single COM port or a high-en graphics card

So yeah, that's completely doable, and like some said - similar concepts existed for a long long while. But - haven't you ever been explained another concept called integration? It saves space and money, power as well, and often speeds systems up due to lesser latencies. That's how you come from "theoretical modular MBO with 100 PCIe lanes", down to current MBOs, than to integrated computers like Rapsberry Pi, down to even more integrated smartphones, and down to even more integrated purpose-built SoCs. Sure you can add-in a 3G modem on PCIe card, and than add-in another bluetooth modem on another PCIe card, that's completely modular! But imagine the size and power consumption of THAT SMARTPHONE

 

[InvalidError]

You ever think that maybe the reason Intel CPUs are more efficient than AMD is BECAUSE they redesign the socket/motherboard interconnects to keep things optimised?

Nah, the new sockets are mainly about keeping chipset and motherboard sales going, except for Haswell/Broadwell which had an integrated voltage regulator that required different power supply arrangement. Intel has been using the DMI2 bus between the chipset and CPU from the original Core i-series to Broadwell, so no "redesigned socket/motherboard interconnect" there. When Intel added PCIe 3.0 to Ivy Bridge, that did not require new chipsets either - many Sandy-generation 67-series motherboard enabled Ivy's PCIe 3.0 with a simple BIOS update.

The main reasons why Intel's chips are more efficient are a more efficient CPU architecture and a more advanced fabrication process two generations ahead of what AMD currently has on the market.

 

[wifiburger]

hum... what's the point ? Buy two motherboard it's easier and cheaper,
the amount of layers going into this type of board not to mention preventing cross noise on the layers, traces...

 

[Guest]

It would be cool to just be able to replace the cpu socket once in a while without scrapping everything else. Maybe the chipset also. But somehow I doubt it would be cheaper than just buying another complete motherboard.

 

[InvalidError]

Maybe the chipset also. But somehow I doubt it would be cheaper than just buying another complete motherboard.

With nearly everything integrated in the CPU and chipset these days, it would make very little sense. If Intel really wanted to though, I have no doubt they could reuse the same socket and chipsets across many more CPUs than the current two generations cycle - as long as the CPU keeps the same DMI, DRAM and on-chip interfaces.

 

[paulbatzing]

Actually, if nvlink like connectors ever make it to the consumer marked, this kind of thing would be a way around having to buy a motherboard with NVIDIA or AMD graphics card connectors. A better way would be to have an industry standard, but that has historically been difficult for socketed components...

 

[poochiepiano]

How did I know Michael wrote this before even clicking on it?

 

[childofthekorn]

I'd absolutely love this concept. However I'm doubtful it'd be that easy to just swap out CPU sockets.

 

[dogofwars]

Connecting the pieces with fiber optic instead of regular wires

In any case it's cheaper to buy the motherboard like it is right now than being modular.

 

[jasonkaler]

So it's more like when you didn't have any onboard components. Sound, disk controllers etc were all add-on cards.

 

[Postulator]

When can I get one?

I don't actually think the idea of accommodating both AMD and Intel is necessary, at least not with the first of these. The rest of the idea really takes us at least back to the concept of a motherboard that manages all of these peripherals. It also provides an opportunity for innovation, where you no longer need to be able to build the whole kit and/or kaboodle to be able to develop one part of it. So while you have the basics such as offering different sound options for varying markets, your video could be taken off the main board once more. Some may want just a basic desktop video module, while others want to be able to get 4K VR at 120fps. More than that, though, depending on the video bus design, maybe a manufacturer can improve on the current SLI/Crossfire options, which are extremely inefficient compared to single-card solutions.

This would free manufacturers from a lot of the current motherboard design constraints, and assuming a standard is in place would enable smaller companies to focus on their particular skill-set to come up with new module options.

Finally, it would potentially change the upgrade cycle by inserting a few additional upgrade options prior to 'throwing it all out and starting over'. Yes, the total cost would increase because of the new interconnections, but the total cost of ownership (TCO) over your machine's lifetime would likely drop, given that a range of parts you would replace at the moment would just slot back into the new 'motherboard' and keep on keeping on with a more modular design. Certainly my personal budget manager would be easier to persuade on the value of one module at a time over a complete (current) motherboard.

I want.

 

[krtshv]

What if you keep the design modular but limit the modules to either Intel or AMD, instead of having one motherboard to try and fit both? I mean, let's face it, people rarely ever switch from Intel to AMD or vise versa. It'll make the design a lot less of a pain, not having to think of AMD/Intel's different design options, like having a semi modular PSU.

 

[bentremblay]

Long ago, I mean before hyper-miniaturization and VLSI I imagined music equipment that was modular. Choice of amplifier power, degree of sophistication for EQ, that sort of thing.
In today's 80/20 market place there is no such niche.

 

[Phrozentech]

What about some sort of PCIe card that provides extra RAM to either the system or the GPU? Using software to decide which one, or make 2 different types and people would just have to choose what they want, or even one of each for MB's that have enough slots. Thoughts?

 

[Sarreq Teryx]

the proper terms would be:

the primary sled = motherboard
the motherboard slices = daughterboards

seriously, this is not an especially new idea. it certainly takes the idea much further, though.

 

[bit_user]

I'm skeptical that you could move the RAM off the CPU module without incurring a significant performance penalty. I think about the only thing that makes sense to modularize is to have the CPU/RAM card separate from the board with the southbridge and all its connectors. As has been pointed out, Intel made this very easy, by using DMI.

If you think about it, the southbridge is basically what supports & determines the rear panel connectors. So, basically, you'd just be moving the CPU and RAM onto a daughter card. And I could see some benefits (for example, making it cheaper to upgrade from mini-ITX to ATX, or making it cheaper to upgrade CPUs), but the market size is... ???

Keep in mind that it'll cost more money to buy a two-part board with the same features, this way. There might also be structural compromises. Airflow would also be complicated, and there'll be more places for dust to get trapped.

As others have pointed out, the PC started out being highly modular. Once upon a time, all the standard functions were on separate ISA cards. The trend has been towards integration, for the sake of higher speeds, more functionality, better reliability, smaller form factors, and lower cost. And if you want to add in extra capabilities, there are PCIe and USB 3 connectors for a reason.

 

[drummerdimitri]

Nice idea in theory but highly unluckily to make it into the real world.
We're forgetting how modular a computer already is and to make a mobo the same would be a bit redundant and overkill really. We already have so many choices to make as is.