Question Motherboard with Intel graphics supporting at least 5120 x 1440 resolution for 5K UHD monitor

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Eximo

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Sorry guys, I'm really confused now. Despite the spec. of a motherboard stating the onboard graphics is restricted to a maximum of say 4096x2304@60Hz, you seem to be saying this is only a guideline and it is the processor that determines the resolution. I don't understand this.

For confirmation, I do NOT want to install a GPU if I can help it, so the monitor resolution will be determined by the graphics chip on the motherboard. Surely, the specs. would not state a lower resolution when a higher resolution was possible!
Consumer motherboards haven't had graphics in a long long time. The graphics is in the CPU, all the motherboard has is the ports. As long as the ports support a sufficient standard, the onboard GPU in the CPU can deliver anything it is capable of.

Your 7700k has onboard HD 630 graphics (not to be confused with the newer UHD630 graphics found on newer chips)

The motherboard I linked has two DP 1.2, a VGA adapter, and HDMI 2.1. That HDMI 2.1 port should be capable of 5120x1440@60hz easily.
 

milleniumaire

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Consumer motherboards haven't had graphics in a long long time. The graphics is in the CPU, all the motherboard has is the ports. As long as the ports support a sufficient standard, the onboard GPU in the CPU can deliver anything it is capable of.

Your 7700k has onboard HD 630 graphics (not to be confused with the newer UHD630 graphics found on newer chips)

The motherboard I linked has two DP 1.2, a VGA adapter, and HDMI 2.1. That HDMI 2.1 port should be capable of 5120x1440@60hz easily.
Ah, that makes more sense. I had assumed there was a graphics chip on the board.

In that case, why does, for example, the Gigabyte Z790 range of motherboards, which are capable of supporting 14th gen chips, included a spec that shows a lower resolution than 5120x2880, except for 3 of their top end boards? Where does Gigabyte get this onboard graphics resolution restriction from if the chips supported by the boards can support higher?
 

jordanbuilds1

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Ah, that makes more sense. I had assumed there was a graphics chip on the board.

In that case, why does, for example, the Gigabyte Z790 range of motherboards, which are capable of supporting 14th gen chips, included a spec that shows a lower resolution than 5120x2880, except for 3 of their top end boards? Where does Gigabyte get this onboard graphics resolution restriction from if the chips supported by the boards can support higher?
not completley sure, might just be there.
edit: irc motherboards limit the resolution going from the mobo, so you might need to stay at 4k if possible.
 
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milleniumaire

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not completley sure, might just be there.
edit: irc motherboards limit the resolution going from the mobo, so you might need to stay at 4k if possible.
The main reason I'm considering upgrading my system is to enable the addition of the awesome 49" 5K UHD curved monitors that are now available so it would be pointless for me to build a system that was restricted to using a 4K monitor.

Some interesting ideas put forward on this chat that I'm going to investigate further, although I'm still confused about the motherboard specs that seem to contradict some information provided.
 
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Eximo

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Ah, that makes more sense. I had assumed there was a graphics chip on the board.

In that case, why does, for example, the Gigabyte Z790 range of motherboards, which are capable of supporting 14th gen chips, included a spec that shows a lower resolution than 5120x2880, except for 3 of their top end boards? Where does Gigabyte get this onboard graphics resolution restriction from if the chips supported by the boards can support higher?

They are also rating the connection they have built to the CPU. HDMI 2.1 is a muddled standard with varying levels of bandwidth, but even the lowest HDMI 2.1 spec should be able to manage 5120x1440. That is just 2560x1440 x 2, which I can't think of any recent iGPU that can't do dual 1440p displays.

You will also see this:

(Graphics specifications may vary depending on CPU support.)

Basically, they have no idea what the capabilities of the chip you install have beyond when they built the board. Given how short the HDMI connection to the CPU is, it should be capable of decent bandwidth beyond even what they specify.

If you have trouble, worst case, you have to add a GPU. Either way you get a much newer platform that solves your Windows 11/12 compatibility issues.

AMD option.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 8500G 4.1 GHz 6-Core Processor ($179.00 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B650 EAGLE AX ATX AM5 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Silicon Power Value Gaming 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory ($95.97 @ Amazon)
Total: $434.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-05-31 13:00 EDT-0400
 
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35below0

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my existing onboard Intel graphics doesn't support this resolution so I would need to purchase a graphics card. There are two reasons why I'm not sure this is a good idea: 1. My system is almost silent and most decent cards have multiple fans making lots of noise
I'm not a gamer and this desktop is mainly used for work.
This means the fans on the GPU will not spin. The GPU will be cooled passively.

Buy a GPU and don't worry about fans. They will only spin up if you're putting a heavy load on the GPU. While just doing work in Windows desktop, your GPU will be quiet.
When it does make noise, it may not last long enough to make a difference. Depends on if the case is quiet, etc. Other system fans will also probably spin up under load.

My 4060 doesn't spin 99% of time because i too am not a gamer.

So your options:

Intel - Arc 770 Sparkle Titan: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/xcNYcf/sparkle-titan-oc-arc-a770-16-gb-video-card-sa770t-16goc
AMD - RX 6750XT: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/b4...deon-rx-6750-xt-12-gb-video-card-rx-675xyjfde
nvidia - RTX 4060: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/kk...rtx-4060-8-gb-video-card-gv-n4060eagle-oc-8gd

Read reviews and decide. 6750 XT is the most powerful gaming GPU, the 4060 and Intel Arc have non-gaming features that may or may not be of use to you.

Btw, target triple fan GPUs. Those have more fans, thus more air is moved, thus the fans spin slower. Less noise.
 
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milleniumaire

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I've found a board that is actually available and "reasonably" priced i.e. not over £1000 like the latest Gigabyte boards seem to be. The Asus board only supports upto 13th gen chipset but I don't see that being an issue, since the reason for my upgrading is more to enable a 5K monitor to be connected without having to purchase a GPU.
The motherboard has 2 x Thunderbolt 4 connectors, which should be plenty.

What do you guys think. I already have lots of parts in my existing system, so will re-use them.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/milleniumaire/saved/K8tdFT
 

35below0

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I think you should be careful not to buy any bridges. You know very little about computer components and need to learn more.

Read about the subjects like motherboards, displays and resolution, and read lots of hardware reviews. Or you will throw good money after bad.

Once again, the motherboard has nothing at all to do with display resolution. It only provides connectors for the monitor. The connectors are standard and have standard limits. Any motherboard with either HDMI or DisplayPort connectors will do.

Graphics come from an integrated processor on board the CPU, or from a dedicated GPU. A rock bottom, $120 i3 12100 has on board graphics that supports up to 8K at 60Hz.


Your choice of motherboard makes no sense and is a collossal waste of money unless i'm missing something critical related to your work. Oracle and some video editing is not demanding at all.

The Asus also supports up to 14th gen CPUs, the chipset itself is unrelated to generations. There are no motherboards that only support up to 13th gen. Get learning about these things.

The CPU is also about twice the cost it needs to be, and is largely a gaming or AI work CPU.

RAM makes no sense, and is a waste of money.


Please explain clearly why exactly you need this kind of gear? Because right now, for 5K, you can get away with just this ~£220 + monitor:
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i3-12100 3.3 GHz Quad-Core Processor (£108.99 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: ASRock Z690M Phantom Gaming 4 Micro ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (£106.93 @ Amazon UK)
Monitor: Dell U4919DW 49.0" 5120 x 1440 60 Hz Curved Monitor (£1449.00 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £1664.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-06-05 18:31 BST+0100


In case your old RAM is not compatible, you can replace it with this: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...16-gb-ddr4-3200-memory-tlzgd432g3200hc16cdc01
Sell old RAM afterwards.


For your choice of monitor, consult rtings and other review sites: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/best/5k
I'm not familiar with monitors so i can't lecture you at length on that subject.
 

35below0

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PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13600K 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor (£252.98 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler (£104.98 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B760 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (£174.98 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory (£212.04 @ Amazon UK)
Case: be quiet! Silent Base 802 ATX Mid Tower Case (£159.20 @ AWD-IT)
Monitor: Dell U4919DW 49.0" 5120 x 1440 60 Hz Curved Monitor (£1449.00 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £2353.18
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-06-05 20:49 BST+0100


The 13600K is a solid choice among today's intels. It's more than fast enough for your needs.

The Noctua NH-D15 cooler is one of the quietest coolers on the market. A 13600K doesn't need this much cooling but you value silence and have the budget.

Memory is fast and small enough to fit under towering coolers. Pricier than DDR4 but that is 64Gb of fast RAM which means you should be set for a long time.

Alternative motherboard: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...ing-atx-lga1700-motherboard-z790-pg-lightning
The Lightning has a superior z790 chipset but it isn't a much better motherboard than the Aorus. The Lightning also only has ONE HDMI port which is limiting. The Aorus has one HDMI and one DP, so it could run 2 monitors, or just give you more options over which connector to use.

Another case to look at: https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/define/define-7/
Good build quality and silent. Has some features that most people these days don't use such as an optical drive tray and space for many HDD. Both are optional though.

You don't need a case as far as i understand, but i've included it as a suggestion.

This would be better use for your money than an i9 and a £500 motherboard. I have re-routed that money into quiet, quality components. Or tried to anyway.
I know silence is important to you.

You could also look into a high end PSU. You don't need one today but some day. For example the SeaSonic Vertex Platinum is both efficient and quiet: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-vertex-px-850
Way more power than you need, but high quality, low power PSUs are very rare so you will probably have no choice than to buy an overkill PSU.
The https://hwbusters.com/ is an excellent resource.
 

milleniumaire

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Hi 35below0, thanks for spending the time providing me with lots of information.

I'm currently on holiday and only have a small MS Surface to work on, so it's difficult to view lots of information simultaneously, but when I'm back home tomorrow I will definitely work through your suggestions in more detail.

I do already have a decent PSU, case and cooler, plus M.2 and SSD storage, all of which I will take from my existing machine.

I've added the PSU, case and cooler to my PCpartpicker build.

I confess, I'm still a little confused about the impact of the CPU and motherboard connectors but understand that the CPU I have selected won't give any restrictions on the graphics capability of the motherboard.

However, I'm fairly sure that the motherboard needs to support DisplayPort 1.4 in order to achieve the required native resolution of 5128 x 1440 @60Hz of the 5K monitors I'm looking at.

Thunderbolt 4 (DP 1.4, usb C) seems to be the best way to connect the monitor.

I definitely need to do much more research to understand how these components interact and I agree the system I have designed is probably overkill and very expensive, but then my business will be purchasing the system and I expect it to last for many, many years, or until Microsoft decide it should no longer be supported by their OS! Although I'm mainly using it for Oracle database design and development now, the use may well change in the future (if/when I retire) as I have a lot of full HD, surround sound video footage that I will one day get around to editing.

My current system was selected for the same purpose as I use it now (software development and the odd bit of video editing), and rendering has proved to be rather slow on it, probably due to the lack of a dedicated GPU.

I'm sure I will have some questions over the next couple of days, once I fully get into your posts......
 
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35below0

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Forgive me if my tone was a little aggressive. I didn't mean it. Only wanted to suggest that you double check your choices before spending a fortune.

From the Gigabyte motherboard website:
  1. 1 x HDMI port, supporting a maximum resolution of 4096x2160@60 Hz
    * Support for HDMI 2.1 version and HDCP 2.3.
    ** Support native HDMI 2.1 TMDS compatible ports.
  2. 1 x DisplayPort, supporting a maximum resolution of 4096x2304@60 Hz
    * Support for DisplayPort 1.2 version and HDCP 2.3
It doesn't specify the 5128 x 1440 @60Hz resolution though. HDMI 2.1 or DP 1.4 would be enough for sure, but DP 1.2 should have enough bandwith for it. Should being a very uncomfortable word right now.


Intel is more straightforward: 13600K Max resolution over DP: 7680 x 4320 @ 60Hz

So the CPU is no problem, but the actual HDMI/DP version is unclear for the monitor's native resolution.
 

35below0

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MMkay, swapping the motherboard out for a similar model with a similar price settles the DisplayPort issue.
The Dell accepts DP 1.4 input, and the MSi B760 Tomahawk has a DP 1.4 output:

Onboard Graphics 1x HDMI™
Support HDMITM 2.1 with HDR, maximum resolution of 4K 60Hz*
1x DisplayPort
Support DP 1.4, maximum resolution of 8K 60Hz*
*Available only on processors featuring integrated graphics. Graphics specifications may vary depending on the CPU installed.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B760-TOMAHAWK-WIFI/Specification

There are motherboards with Thunderbolt USB-C but they do cost a lot.


You want to upgrade your computer, but i want to go back one more time to my initial suggestion which is the nvidia RTX 4060. It's the cheapest way to get display to your monitor, or several of them. And one thing that hadn't occured to me is that you can adjust the fan curve on the GPU.

Set it so fans are off until temperatures get very high. Normally a 4060 doesn't need fans until it reaches about 50-55C, and temperature above 70C requires serious cooling.
But those temperatures are not going to happen without gaming or GPU benchmarking/stress testing.

So you could force the fans to stay off until the GPU heats up to 70 C, and allow fans to spin normally above that temperature so that the GPU doesn't cook off.

I don't know how much experience you have with GPUs, but modern ones don't always use the fans even when gaming, though it depends on how much work the GPU has to do.
Chances are if your CPU cooler doesn't have to work hard and spin up, the GPU will stay quiet.

The Sparkle TITAN i linked earlier is probably even better. It sucks for gaming but not for video editing. And it has a total of 3 DP 2.0 ports. So sky's the limit resolution-wise.
I think it's weakness is higher low-power usage.


A dedicated GPU will also free up RAM and CPU time, but that's not a big deal.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13600K 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor (£251.82 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: MSI MAG B760 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (£179.00 @ Computer Orbit)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory (£212.04 @ Amazon UK)
Monitor: Dell U4919DW 49.0" 5120 x 1440 60 Hz Curved Monitor (£1449.00 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £2091.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-06-06 22:52 BST+0100


https://www.sparkle.com.tw/en/products/view/6A1A31428cBE
 

milleniumaire

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The Asus also supports up to 14th gen CPUs, the chipset itself is unrelated to generations. There are no motherboards that only support up to 13th gen. Get learning about these things.
When reading the overview for the ProArt Z790- CREATOR WIFI motherboard, it states:
  • Intel® Socket LGA 1700 for 13th & 12th Gen Intel® Core™, Pentium® Gold and Celeron® Processors
Intel itself discusses "Generations" of processors, where the first couple of digits in the processor identifier infers the generation. So, i9-14900K is 14th gen and i9-13900K is the slightly older 13th gen.

This is what I have found through Googling.

So, based on the above I assumed only upto an i9-13***** CPU could be used with this motherboard, however, I see from the motherboard/CPU compatibility list on the ASUS website, that it does support 14th Gen processors.

So, what does the statement above actually mean and what is the point of including it in the motherboard overview if newer 14th Gen CPU's are also supported?

Update: I guess it could be that at the time this motherboard was made available, 13th gen was the latest CPU and ASUS has not updated their documentation?

Update 2: I now appreciate that Intel 14th gen is just a refresh of the 13th gen processors and there isn't that much of a performance gain. They both use the LGA1700 socket and are based on Intel 700 and 600 series chipsets. It is possible that a motherboard was release for the 13th gen processors and if used with a 14th processor it may not work without a BIOS upgrade, which may only be possible by installing a 13th gen processor! This shouldn't be an issue for me.
 
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35below0

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When reading the overview for the ProArt Z790- CREATOR WIFI motherboard, it states:
  • Intel® Socket LGA 1700 for 13th & 12th Gen Intel® Core™, Pentium® Gold and Celeron® Processors
Intel itself discusses "Generations" of processors, where the first couple of digits in the processor identifier infers the generation. So, i9-14900K is 14th gen and i9-13900K is the slightly older 13th gen.

This is what I have found through Googling.

So, based on the above I assumed only upto an i9-13***** CPU could be used with this motherboard, however, I see from the motherboard/CPU compatibility list on the ASUS website, that it does support 14th Gen processors.

So, what does the statement above actually mean and what is the point of including it in the motherboard overview if newer 14th Gen CPU's are also supported?
That's not your fault. The information provided was confusing.
The text was written prior to the release of the 14th generation. Asus could not legally include support for it even though it was near-guaranteed. The 12/13/14th generation all share the same socket, so support for each generation is a matter of a BIOS update.

There are some motherboards released a few years ago that cannot work with a 13th or 14th gen CPU out-of-the-box, but can after a BIOS flash. All the z690 motherboards for example. A handful of z790 or B760 motherboards also only support 12/13th gen out-of-the-box and need a BIOS update in order to accept a 14th gen CPU.

But then there are motheboards where the manufacturer forgot to update the information on the website. The ProArt is not the only LGA1700 motherboard with outdated information. There are a few.

- LGA1700 is the socket that holds the CPU. 12/13/14th gen Intels (12400, 13400, 13600K, 14700K, etc) use motherboards with this socket.

- these motherboards are further grouped into z690 chipset, z790 chipset and B760 chipset, with some H610 and B660 chipset motherboards being more rare examples.
- older generation chipsets follow a similar naming convention: z590, z490, B460, etc. The names could be much simpler, but tech doesn't have a good grip on names and naming conventions.
- H610 is horrible. Beyond budget, these motherboards have had all features cut as much as possible and quality sacrificed in order to save costs.
- B760 motherboards are budget versions but about half of them are very decent. The chipset is more limited compared to the flagship "z" chipset but the differences are minute - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1700#Raptor_Lake_chipsets_(700_series)
- z690 and z790 are flagship chipsets for fanciest and most feature-rich motherboards. They are more expensive and some of them are a complete ripoff. Few utilize fully the capabilities of the chipset.

Update 2: I now appreciate that Intel 14th gen is just a refresh of the 13th gen processors and there isn't that much of a performance gain. They both use the LGA1700 socket and are based on Intel 700 and 600 series chipsets. It is possible that a motherboard was release for the 13th gen processors and if used with a 14th processor it may not work without a BIOS upgrade, which may only be possible by installing a 13th gen processor! This shouldn't be an issue for me.
Of all the 14th gen CPUs, only the 14700/K is significantly improved (and even that is only on paper). I would rather have the i7 14700K than the i7 13700K, but as for the others, the 13th and 14th generation is mostly equal in performance. 14th gen is slightly better and more efficient.
The real decider is price. For an equal i5 or i7 or i9 13/14th gen CPU, i would buy the cheaper one.

The improvement over the 12th generation is a little more significant but still not huge. In day to day tasks, it's not possible to tell the difference between an equal 12th or 13th gen Intel.
A 12th gen 12400 will feel faster than a 6th gen 6400, but for example a 13400 doesn't feel faster than a 12400.
Of course the 12400 was available first. But once all of 12400, 13400 and 14400 are available, it makes most sense to buy the 14400 (unless the 13400 is much cheaper).

As for flashing BIOS, any decent Intel motherboard should allow BIOS flashing from a USB drive, without requiring a compatible CPU and a RAM kit installed, only power from a power supply.
It's not user friendly or beginner friendly, and things can go wrong when flashing BIOS so it is not recommended often. But sometimes the perfect motherboard is one like that, so it's worth doing it.


Now the so called 5K problem. Most motherboards include up to a DP 1.2, and DP 1.2 should be more than enough for a 1440p resolution. It is for most of them but the 5128 x 1440 documentation is vague.
9 GBit/s should be enough, so DP 1.2 ought to be enough but this is not clear.

The 5K 5120 × 2880 resolution seems to require above DisplayPort 1.2, but as seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5K_resolution there are monitors that use Dual DisplayPort 1.2
Adding to the confusion is the lower resolution, 5120 × 1440 monitors which all state DisplayPort 1.4 minimum.

The MSi B760 Tomahawk, despite belonging in the budget motherboard category, and being a gaming and not professional MSi motherboard, does feature a DisplayPort 1.4. That is a rare connector even on higher end boards, some priced well above 500.

Part of the problem is the somewhat unusual resolution of the monitor, but following the monitor's own requirements (DisplayPort 1.4 or higher) makes it easier to find the correct output.


And again, i wonder how you feel about a dedicated GPU? Integrated graphics are pretty decent and your monitor is limited to 60Hz only so performance-wise integrated is enough.
But a GPU would more comfortably drive that display as well as free up RAM otherwise used by the integrated graphics.
Integrated has no dedicated video RAM so it has to borrow a chunk of the computer's DDR RAM.
A GPU uses much faster DDR6-VRAM that is on the GPU itself.

Plus the connectors are much higher spec... so, you know. I think it's the obvious choice. You don't want noise but if you ask people who use GPUs for rendering or video editing you will get an idea of how often the GPU needs active cooling.
Because most of the time, including database work or certain types of editing and even gaming, the GPU is cooled passively.


Enjoy your vacation and thanks for your feedback.