Question My 3090 runs the same / worse than a 3080

[Squeezit]

So I'm fairly familiar with computers, but this has me stumped.
I've brought this to other IT people and they've been stumped. I've gone to r/techsupport r/overclocking and r/gpumining and never been able to get an answer (though people did attempt to help).

Here's my issue, please see my benchmark scores:
https://www.3dmark.com/compare/pr/1006968/pr/994218/pr/994237/pr/996740

Now this issue started on my old pc. I noticed my 3090 started performing...worse. (I don't know how much crypto mining is enjoyed / hated here, but that's where I first noticed it).
Running a couple benchmarks confirmed it as well as my gaming performance had dropped. I never push it very hard while mining, but usually hit 110mh. Now I hit 90 - 95mh which is the same as a 3080.

So I was already planning on building a new PC. So once my new pc was built, I noticed that my benchmark scores were still bad.
Assumed my GPU must be bad, contacted EVGA whom sent me a new 3090 to replace mine. Day 1 scores are the good scores from the above posted link.
The other 2 scores are a few days after. No crypto mining has been done on this card up to that point. No overclocking, everything was default in all of those benchmark tests.
I've also tried leaving it turned off for a whole day, then immediately doing a benchmark test to see if it just had issues running for long periods.

My current PC specs are shown in the 3dmark test but just for reference:
z590 taichi
11900k (I know)
evga ftw3 ultra 3090
CPU is water cooled, GPU is air cooled.

While running benchmark / crypto mine, GPUz and hwinfo both show no throttling,
My temperatures never hit any crazy numbers (I don't have anything written down unfortunately, I'll try and watch it again next time I test).

I'm at a complete loss at this point. A completely brand new computer doesn't resolve it. I thought maybe it was my power supply since I salvaged only that and my ram from my previous PC. Replaced the PSU today but still no success.

Anyone have any other tips for me? Thanks in advance

After vBIOS update from evga:

I scored 11 824 in Port Royal

Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}

www.3dmark.com

(basically no difference)

 

[Squeezit]

your CPU is running below as well as your GPU, are you running 3 cords from your PSU to GPU?

Yes I am running 3 seperate PCIe cables to my GPU, and I noticed that my cpu was performing low too. I haven't attempted to OC it yet.

 

[Afro_ninja199]

Yes I am running 3 seperate PCIe cables to my GPU, and I noticed that my cpu was performing low too. I haven't attempted to OC it yet.

try 100 core and 1000 memory


this is mine with a small overclock
[

 

[Phaaze88]

According to nvidia its safe until it hits 115c...but of course thats without assuming its for long periods of time

Aye, which is why the 95C or lower recommendation. If the user doesn't care about that, they can run it however they like.

Ok, that confirms something I was suspicious about, thank you

I guess I'll have to re-check the EVGA forums, but running out of spec like that is bad for either the mobo or gpu - I forget exactly - it's a problem with some of their 3080s and 3090s.
That was a few months ago... no concrete fix for this yet, EVGA?


EDIT:
2 weeks ago
https://forums.evga.com/3090-ftw3-ultra-power-balancing-issue-m3256815.aspx
o https://forums.evga.com/Just-received-my-3080-FTW3-Some-observations-m3253493.aspx
Small discussions about the 3 pins.

3 months ago
https://forums.evga.com/Three-defec...t-works-m3193003.aspx?high=red+light+of+death
The highlighted post in this thread brings up the PCIe power draw - post #20.


I just now realized that this may be completely unrelated to your problem, but it could become a problem later.

 

[Squeezit]

Aye, which is why the 95C or lower recommendation. If the user doesn't care about that, they can run it however they like.

I definitely care, I've only been running it for small bursts to try and get it working.
I am going to be adding some fans which will hopefully help with cooling it a bit better tomorrow

I guess I'll have to re-check the EVGA forums, but running out of spec like that is bad for either the mobo or gpu - I forget exactly - it's a problem with some of their 3080s and 3090s.
That was a few months ago... no concrete fix for this yet, EVGA?


EDIT:
2 weeks ago
https://forums.evga.com/3090-ftw3-ultra-power-balancing-issue-m3256815.aspx
o https://forums.evga.com/Just-received-my-3080-FTW3-Some-observations-m3253493.aspx
Small discussions about the 3 pins.

3 months ago
https://forums.evga.com/Three-defec...t-works-m3193003.aspx?high=red+light+of+death
The highlighted post in this thread brings up the PCIe power draw - post #20.


I just now realized that this may be completely unrelated to your problem, but it could become a problem later.

You think this is unrelated? I was wondering if it was related...
Hmm, when I change out my fans tomorrow, I still have my 3080. Maybe I should test that and compare it to my 3090 and see how I score in benchmarks. I'm curious if the 3080 will run like normal, or if it'll run 13% lower than it should too.

 

[Phaaze88]

You think this is unrelated? I was wondering if it was related...

Hard to say - that's why I said might.
There aren't that many samples out there from users posting their PCIe and the 8pin(s) power draw BEFORE they died.
It's not affecting all EVGA cards.

Please do test your 3080.

 

[Squeezit]

Hard to say - that's why I said might.
There aren't that many samples out there from users posting their PCIe and the 8pin(s) power draw BEFORE they died.
It's not affecting all EVGA cards.

Please do test your 3080.

Here's an update with my 3080.
It's also underperforming.
Mining hashrate is 59mh (default settings, no lowering power limit / raising memory)
User benchmark score: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/42450384
3dmark port royal score: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/61075438?
This is a ftw3 ultra 3080 though, so just in case there's an issue with Evga specifically, I'm borrowing an MSI 3080 for testing purposes. (will update when completed)

 

[Squeezit]

Update with msi 3080: Ran even worse

Last two screenshots are from MSI 3080

https://imgur.com/a/38fLxb0

View: https://imgur.com/a/38fLxb0

I'm curious about that last screenshot. I notice my utilization suffers A LOT while mining.

also userbenchmark: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/42450954
3d mark port royal: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/61075872?

Mining hashrate on default settings is 72mh
mining hashrate with +700 memory, 80% power limit, -200 clock: 74mh
Memory got hot pretty fast, but didn't get hot enough to thermal throttle.

So I think its safe to say at this point that either something is wrong with my computer, or both of my power supplies.
I doubt 3 seperate GPU's would be the issue

 

[Karadjgne]

Gpu core 100%
Gpu memory junction temp 108°C
Gpu memory usage 30.4%.

Id hate to see what happens when you actually use more memory than 8Gb.

Is ReBar active?

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

So I think its safe to say at this point that either something is wrong with my computer, or both of my power supplies.
I doubt 3 seperate GPU's would be the issue

I noticed my 3090 started performing...worse...
Running a couple benchmarks confirmed it as well as my gaming performance had dropped. I never push it very hard while mining, but usually hit 110mh. Now I hit 90 - 95mh which is the same as a 3080...
So I was already planning on building a new PC. So once my new pc was built, I noticed that my benchmark scores were still bad.

unless there is some other common component between the two builds that is causing the issue in both;
i doubt you'd be suffering the same problem in these two separate computers, including two separate PSUs, and three separate GPUs.
the performance differences that you've stated from early use to now could've been false reading in the beginning?

this would lead me to believe that you are just expecting performance that is not likely available.
or you have something setup wrong in your system configuration.

perhaps the comparisons you are making to other users systems are based on highly-overclocked and\or specialized systems that don't actually match yours?

 

[Phaaze88]

The Msi card is pulling way less through the PCIe, so that's a plus.

As for the utilization thing: You know, when things(Vram in this situation) throttle back because they were running too hot, that lower maximum is going to count as the limit.

I noticed the gpu hotspot thermals are worse on the Msi 3080. There's a gap of 17C here, but on the 3090, the gap is 11C.

 

[Bassman999]

Who did you barrow the MSI from?
Put your cards in that PC and test.
Theres something specific to your SW or HW in your PC besides the GPUs that is the issue.

 

[Karadjgne]

What's really bad is the fans are already at 100% each, and the card isn't fully utilized.

I'd be wondering about case thermals and airflow about now. Linus was pushing a 4k Cyberpunk with Ultra everything including Raytracing Ultra and wasn't hitting these kinds of temps, and thats gpu brutal.

 

[Squeezit]

Who did you barrow the MSI from?
Put your cards in that PC and test.
Theres something specific to your SW or HW in your PC besides the GPUs that is the issue.

I borrowed it from my brother.
I also popped my 3090 into his rig and it ran GREAT. So at least I'm able to know for sure there is something in my pc (software related I believe) that's blocking the performance of my card.
My thermals actually got a little higher in his rig as his cooling isn't as good as mine, but never thermal throttled.

At this point, what do you guys think I should do next to try and identify what's causing it on my pc? Whatever it was, was also on my old pc. Which I think can only be a windows update, or maybe nvidia.
That, or I suppose I could have two bad power supplies in a row... (It used to work fine with the old power supply. with no issues. I think its more likely to be software related)

 

[Bassman999]

What's really bad is the fans are already at 100% each, and the card isn't fully utilized.

I'd be wondering about case thermals and airflow about now. Linus was pushing a 4k Cyberpunk with Ultra everything including Raytracing Ultra and wasn't hitting these kinds of temps, and thats gpu brutal.

I borrowed it from my brother.
I also popped my 3090 into his rig and it ran GREAT. So at least I'm able to know for sure there is something in my pc (software related I believe) that's blocking the performance of my card.
My thermals actually got a little higher in his rig as his cooling isn't as good as mine, but never thermal throttled.

At this point, what do you guys think I should do next to try and identify what's causing it on my pc? Whatever it was, was also on my old pc. Which I think can only be a windows update, or maybe nvidia.
That, or I suppose I could have two bad power supplies in a row... (It used to work fine with the old power supply. with no issues. I think its more likely to be software related)

I dont really know what in your PC is the issue.
Could be the MB, or maybe an app?

 

[Squeezit]

Alright I am one step closer!
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/61099041?

This is my score after going into msconfig and disabling all non-microsoft services.
So now I have to dig through all of this and find out what specifically is causing my issue

https://imgur.com/a/O0BWJ2c

View: https://imgur.com/a/O0BWJ2c

 

[ClapTrapper]

Possibly driver issues. A newer driver doesn't necessarily mean better (as anyone running Windows can painfully attest!). When you are swapping parts and Windows are you taking note of the versions of NVidia drivers and Windows?
Keep in mind NVidia has been messing with the drivers to try and slap down miners (most likely to sell Miner specific cards,or you can be optimistic and believe it is to help us poor Gamers).

If not,I'd run your wole process again and make sure you are using the exact same version of drivers.

 

[Karadjgne]

Nahimic service would be my guess.

 

[Squeezit]

This is the cause!

https://imgur.com/RoSdxHJ

View: https://imgur.com/RoSdxHJ


Whats weird is, I didn't have this on my old pc. Additionally, I have it set to turn off automatically (and frequently turned it off after booting for benchmarks / etc). It looks like the service would still boot and cause issues though.

I am now consistently getting good benchmarks, Hashrate is back to normal.
UB still gives me a bad score https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/42475770
But I have no idea why as everything seems to be running great.

I'm a little sad though. I liked that app. And I even had it configured to turn off anytime I ran a game in full screen, or anytime certain apps (like my mining app) were opened.
So I guess no more wallpaper engine 🙁

 

[Bassman999]

This is the cause!

https://imgur.com/RoSdxHJ

View: https://imgur.com/RoSdxHJ


Whats weird is, I didn't have this on my old pc. Additionally, I have it set to turn off automatically (and frequently turned it off after booting for benchmarks / etc). It looks like the service would still boot and cause issues though.

I am now consistently getting good benchmarks, Hashrate is back to normal.
UB still gives me a bad score https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/42475770
But I have no idea why as everything seems to be running great.

I'm a little sad though. I liked that app. And I even had it configured to turn off anytime I ran a game in full screen, or anytime certain apps (like my mining app) were opened.
So I guess no more wallpaper engine 🙁

Glad you figured it out!
UB sucks and gives me inconsistent results.
Im going to look for that app in my PC. I dont remember seeing it.

 

[Karadjgne]

What wallpaper engine service? I know Rainmeter can take a slight hit to performance, but with today's cpus that's generally not noticeable like it was back with core2duos and quads.

Many wallpaper services aren't much more than licensed malware to begin with, at best.

 

[Squeezit]

What wallpaper engine service? I know Rainmeter can take a slight hit to performance, but with today's cpus that's generally not noticeable like it was back with core2duos and quads.

Many wallpaper services aren't much more than licensed malware to begin with, at best.

Wallpaper engine off steam.
I know rainmeter is another option, but I thought wallpaper engine would be better because I could set it to automatically turn off everytime I ran a game or specified app.
I thought that would be enough. And it flew under my radar because when I was suspicious of it and I closed out of it completely, I didn't realize there was still a hidden service running causing these issues.

I swear my issues started on this pc before I ever touched wallpaper engine, but it seems to be working fine now that I've disabled it.
No idea what my issue was on my old pc though, since I never had wallpaper engine on there.

Given that I feel like my GPU is still running a little low (about on par with an FE?) I feel like there's something else causing some issues, but at least its finally running on par with an FE and not a 3080.
Now that I've resolved that, I can try OCing it a bit and hope it won't crash on me like it was before.

 

[Phaaze88]

I remember reading about this once before. That dang app was causing performance issues on someone else's PC.
It was so random...

Gonna have to start asking people, "Hey, are you running Wallpaper Engine? It saps performance like nothing else..."

UB still gives me a bad score https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/42475770

XMP is off again. Besides that, it looks fine.

 

[Bassman999]

I remember reading about this once before. That dang app was causing performance issues on someone else's PC.
It was so random...

Gonna have to start asking people, "Hey, are you running Wallpaper Engine? It saps performance like nothing else..."


XMP is off again. Besides that, it looks fine.

I was saying maybe an app, but I have never i=used a wallpaper engine. I wont ever use one now.

 

[Bassman999]

I just checked out your UB results and its better than my 3080 now like it should be. 👌

 

[Karadjgne]

Well it's one of those things, different strokes for different folks. Most ppl aren't trying to squeeze every erg out of the cpu for cpu hash rates, so a higher class cpu wouldn't normally even notice that wallpaper engine. Especially since they'd be connected through Steam for gaming purposes anyway.

I imagine that engine was automatically connecting to steam and keeping an open connection for wallpaper updates, or at the very least doing like the Java scheduler does and periodically doing web checks for new versions.

I used rainmeter before, back when I had a quad core i5, and it was a little hit to performance, but subsequent revisions are more streamlined and my 3700x is quite a bit more versatile, so I might just get back into it.