My experience with Radeon 5850 vs. GTX 285

[Mustang5521]

Recently, I purchased a Radeon 5850 which I ended up returning. After that I purchased a GTX 285, which I installed yesterday, and it's working great!

Here are the differences I experienced between the two video cards:

Radeon 5850 - Gave boot load error problems that couldn't be fixed even after updating bios and updating chipset drivers. Would constantly boot me out of WinXP until I ran Driver Sweeper and reinstalled ATI drivers again (control panel add/remove program wasn't enough to uninstall my previous Nvidia drivers). Power Management options did not work, and kept doing a complete reboot of system when coming out of standby mode. Overall just a problematic video card with problems that were basically impossible to fix even after numerous calls to several different technical support departments. Found out from Asus forums that Radeon 5000 series have known problems with Asus Nforce motherboards (even ones like mine without an onboard graphics card) and there is no solution. Fan can get loud, runs somewhat hot (without overclocking).

GTX 285 - No problems at all. Only needed to install proper drivers (which is normal for any video card install). Equivalent in-game performance to Radeon 5850. Fan is quiet, runs cooler than Radeon 5850 (without overclocking). Great video card!!

Now I know why the GTX 285 cost me $75 more than the Radeon 5850. In this case, I definitely got what I paid for.

 

[AMW1011]

Mustang, you listed three totally unproven and baseless points to support your bias.

We are not biased, you are.

People buy ATI because, usually when they do, ATI has the superior product for their needs. This isn't an AMD vs Intel debate, ATI is beating nVidia in performance in almost every segment of the market. ATI also has a MUCH larger market share than AMD, and will likely become pretty close to being on-par with nVidia's market share considering the time its taking for nVidia to compete.

I don't hate nVidia, I don't prefer ATI. I am totally impartial, and that allows me to see and root out biased people like yourself.

If you don't believe me look at my sig, hell I'll list all the cards I've ever had:

nVidia FX 5200
Geforce 6600 GT
ATI X850 XT, after 6600 GT dies in < 6 months, got it for a good price
7600 GT, my favorite card of all time, it was a serious performer for very little money
8800 GT, yeah my 7600 GT lasted a good while
2x 8800 GTS 512mb, sold the GT and got 2 8800 GTS 512mb for the coolers

Hmm, yep I'm an ATI fanboy...

Ok here we go:

1. nVidia has better dev. support now because of the G80 success. Devs. will start to support ATI more now that the 5xxx series' success. nVidia isn't the dominate video card company, they are in a fierce and usually pretty close competition, 8800 series' success and the FX 5000 series failure aside.

2. nVidia does NOT have better compatibility, if anything it is the other way around. More motherboards support crossfire than they do SLI by a huge margin. Just because some very old nforce board has problems with newer ATI cards, does not mean EVERY board will.

3. You don't know why that is because it is FALSE. Back 3 years ago ATI had the superior scaling and back 4 years ago nVidia did. Now, they are both very much on-par which is very nice. I admit that nVidia tends to have better release day drivers, but ATI supports their older cards better, SLI no longer scales in Oblivion worth sh*t for example.

All of these lies play a big role in why you are a delusional fanboy.

There is no such general consensus like you speak of. Look at this thread, look all over these and other boards. Mustang, the general consensus, and rightfully so, is that YOU ARE WRONG. That is the general consensus.

Look here:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20081112035812_ATI_Begins_to_Fight_Back_Market_Share_from_Nvidia_in_Desktop_Discrete_Market_Segment.html

nVidia has a 65% market share as of a week ago, that is not "dominating" the market, it is a lead built off of 2 years ago when ATI couldn't compete. Now in a single quarter nVidia is expected to lose at least 5% market share.

now lets consider the mobile market real quick. ATI has the first DX11 cards that give extreme performance for very little power. It takes nVidia a dual card setup that requires 150w to even slightly beat the mobile 5870 that only requires 60w, that is less than half. Now consider that the mobile 5870 is far cheaper and you can see that trend clearly.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-5870.23073.0.html
It doesn't stop there, nVidia's mobile cards are all based on the G92 architecture because the G200 is just too large and consumes too much energy. The only other option is the GT 240m which uses the very scaled down GT216 architecture that can't even compete with the lowest 5xxx series mobile series. Noe since the Fermi architecture is twice as big and is not supposed to scale down very low, I don't think we will see much in the way of nVidia mobile market this year.

I'm not seeing any domination here from nVidia, only ATI catching up quick. This is good for us all since this will inspire innovation.


You can't argue this mustang, I even provided sources, but go ahead and try. I, like most people, enjoy being right, so go ahead and give me more reasons to tell the truth.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

Ok I get it. There are a lot of ATI video card owners on this message board who don't like it when someone insults ATI. Many people like rooting for the underdog, in this case being ATI. I would venture to guess that many ATI owners purchase their video card based on the fact that they don't like the bigger more popular company that is dominating the video card market (i.e. Nvidia). And they also purchase ATI brand because the video cards are lower priced and fit their budget better for price/performance. However, all of this doesn't change these facts:

When all else is held equal, I still prefer Nvidia - but the ATI 5850 is simply much better than a Nvidia GTX285.

We're all just stating that your actions of ditching a 5850 and paying more for a GTX285 is stupid thing to do.

It would've actually made sense if you had said you returned your 5850 for a cheaper GTX260 or GTX275, but paying more for an inferior product based on your unsupported biases and ignorance of computers is plainly foolish.

 

[Mustang5521]

All you ATI fans and defenders can go ahead and keep spewing nonsensical gibberish about how the Radeon 5850 is better than the GTX 285. Meanwhile, I will enjoy playing games on my GTX 285 without the incompatibility issues and bad drivers of the Radeon 5850. At the end of the day, Nvidia is still dominating the graphics card market just like they have always been, and this is unlikely to change. My goal was to be able to play games smoothly without any issues, and only Nvidia can deliver that consistently. On the other hand, ATI delivers migraine headaches consistently. You ATI fans and defenders can believe what you like and be in denial about ATI all you want. I am done with this thread.

Have fun everyone

 

[AMW1011]

Honestly, this is a grade-A case of why I hate most people. When presented with facts, and the wisdom of the majority they ignore it all and say "NA-AH YOUR WRONG AND I'M RIGHT!" while spewing more trash that has already been proven false. And the worst part? I would have loved to let this damn thread die with no posts and Mustang being a complete idiot without me explaining why. The problem? Some idiot will come along and read his post and take it seriously. Therefor, in good conscience I must go into detail to explain why Mustang is wrong. And then I have to deal with the nonsense he writes in response. I think I may just stop caring.

Really what should have happened is that the first mod. that read this thread and saw that Mustang was just spewing biased hate for a stupid GPU company like it had murdered his family, should have deleted it.

Oh well no one is perfect, especially idiots.

 

[Mousemonkey]

There has been so much whining about Nvidia over the last couple of months I thought it made a nice change to see some being directed the other way.

 

[hunter315]

bad news mustang, it wasnt the ATI card that had the compatibility issues, it was the nVidia chipset which have been known to be problematic for several years and thats why most people recommend against them. The problem you had wasnt caused by the demon ATI, it was caused by your angel nVidia.

If you can read through a review, look at the charts, and still tell yourself that the GTX285 was a better purchase something is wrong. If you wish to spout biased, unfounded opinions get off these forums, toms is based on knowledge not rumors and if you cant look at something and remain unbiased you shouldnt be here.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5850,2433.html

 

[Mousemonkey]

Enough with the insults and general name calling.

 

[AMW1011]

There has been so much whining about Nvidia over the last couple of months I thought it made a nice change to see some being directed the other way.

I would understand if it was legitimate, but it isn't. It would be nice to see something POSITIVE about nVidia, like some good news on the mobile front or some legit benchmarks of Fermi. It is not nice to see some hateful, negative, and fully uneducated rant about ATI, because it will inevitably point someone in the wrong direction if not corrected.

If anything there has been a lot of people fighting back just because it looks like nVidia may not be doing so hot *gasp!*.

I think people need to just realize that each company has their respective ups and downs and that we are talking about graphics processor unit manufacturers, not sports teams to competing religions.

I know I'm critical about Fermi, but the last time things looked this bad it was the HD 2900 days. This is not to say that I would not buy a GTX 380 or GTX 360 if it does well at a reasonable price and provides a market segment that ATI can't match, I most certainly would.

 

[AMW1011]

Enough with the insults and general name calling.

I don't see much name calling or insults MM, I thought this one ended up remarkably clean considering.

 

[Mousemonkey]

I don't see much name calling or insults MM, I thought this one ended up remarkably clean considering.

I don't think calling people idiots or saying that they are dumb is particularly complimentary, do you? and if people can't voice their opinion without doing so, then they should refrain from responding to threads such as these.

 

[AMW1011]

Well the closest thing I can see is me calling him lazy. I never said he was stupid and I can't see it being said in anyone else' post, though you may have deleted it because I think I do remember someone calling Mustang in idiot.

I don't think he is an idiot, at least no more than people in general, I just think he is extremely biased and is spreading negative rumors that could harm someone who reads this without proper knowledge. His supposed actions may be stupid, but he is not necessarily.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Oh well no one is perfect, especially idiots.

Well that parting shot could have been taken personally and I edited the other post, I'm just asking that people refrain from such terminology as it just tends to escalate.

 

[edeawillrule]

Ok I get it. There are a lot of ATI video card owners on this message board who don't like it when someone insults ATI. Many people like rooting for the underdog, in this case being ATI. I would venture to guess that many ATI owners purchase their video card based on the fact that they don't like the bigger more popular company that is dominating the video card market (i.e. Nvidia). And they also purchase ATI brand because the video cards are lower priced and fit their budget better for price/performance. However, all of this doesn't change these facts:

* Nvidia is better supported by game developers - obviously game developers are going to work harder for Nvidia compatibility since Nvidia cards are in a far higher percentage of the PCs out there compared to ATI. Many game developers also optimize their games better for Nvidia cards.

* Nvidia has better compatibility - again most hardware manufacturers are going to focus more on compatibility with the dominant video card company (i.e. Nvidia).

* Nvidia usually has better drivers - don't exactly know why this is the case, but it is.

All of these factors play a big role in why Nvidia video cards cost significantly more that ATI video cards. Because Nvidia can demand a higher price for their video cards and get it. ATI can't demand as high a price, otherwise their sales would probably plummet (again because of the facts listed above).

Now ATI owners/fans on here can argue until they are blue in the face that ATI is equivalent or superior to Nvidia, but in reality this is simply not the case. Just like happy Kia owners can argue until they are blue in the face that Kia is equivalent or superior to Honda, but again this is simply not the case.

Again, argue as much as you like about this, but there are valid reasons why the general consensus out there is that Nvidia cards are generally less troublesome than ATI cards.

I think I am less biased when it comes to these things. For example, I know Intel CPUs are better than AMD CPUs, but I still have an AMD CPU because at the time I didn't want to spend extra for an Intel CPU. My AMD works great, but next time I am going to buy Intel brand. You might ask why? Because I know that Intel CPUs are simply better. There is nothing wrong with AMD though.

I smell a fanboy!!!

 

[edeawillrule]

Mustang, you listed three totally unproven and baseless points to support your bias.

We are not biased, you are.

People buy ATI because, usually when they do, ATI has the superior product for their needs. This isn't an AMD vs Intel debate, ATI is beating nVidia in performance in almost every segment of the market. ATI also has a MUCH larger market share than AMD, and will likely become pretty close to being on-par with nVidia's market share considering the time its taking for nVidia to compete.

I don't hate nVidia, I don't prefer ATI. I am totally impartial, and that allows me to see and root out biased people like yourself.

If you don't believe me look at my sig, hell I'll list all the cards I've ever had:

nVidia FX 5200
Geforce 6600 GT
ATI X850 XT, after 6600 GT dies in < 6 months, got it for a good price
7600 GT, my favorite card of all time, it was a serious performer for very little money
8800 GT, yeah my 7600 GT lasted a good while
2x 8800 GTS 512mb, sold the GT and got 2 8800 GTS 512mb for the coolers

Hmm, yep I'm an ATI fanboy...

Ok here we go:

1. nVidia has better dev. support now because of the G80 success. Devs. will start to support ATI more now that the 5xxx series' success. nVidia isn't the dominate video card company, they are in a fierce and usually pretty close competition, 8800 series' success and the FX 5000 series failure aside.

2. nVidia does NOT have better compatibility, if anything it is the other way around. More motherboards support crossfire than they do SLI by a huge margin. Just because some very old nforce board has problems with newer ATI cards, does not mean EVERY board will.

3. You don't know why that is because it is FALSE. Back 3 years ago ATI had the superior scaling and back 4 years ago nVidia did. Now, they are both very much on-par which is very nice. I admit that nVidia tends to have better release day drivers, but ATI supports their older cards better, SLI no longer scales in Oblivion worth sh*t for example.

All of these lies play a big role in why you are a delusional fanboy.

There is no such general consensus like you speak of. Look at this thread, look all over these and other boards. Mustang, the general consensus, and rightfully so, is that YOU ARE WRONG. That is the general consensus.

Look here:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20081112035812_ATI_Begins_to_Fight_Back_Market_Share_from_Nvidia_in_Desktop_Discrete_Market_Segment.html

nVidia has a 65% market share as of a week ago, that is not "dominating" the market, it is a lead built off of 2 years ago when ATI couldn't compete. Now in a single quarter nVidia is expected to lose at least 5% market share.

now lets consider the mobile market real quick. ATI has the first DX11 cards that give extreme performance for very little power. It takes nVidia a dual card setup that requires 150w to even slightly beat the mobile 5870 that only requires 60w, that is less than half. Now consider that the mobile 5870 is far cheaper and you can see that trend clearly.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-5870.23073.0.html
It doesn't stop there, nVidia's mobile cards are all based on the G92 architecture because the G200 is just too large and consumes too much energy. The only other option is the GT 240m which uses the very scaled down GT216 architecture that can't even compete with the lowest 5xxx series mobile series. Noe since the Fermi architecture is twice as big and is not supposed to scale down very low, I don't think we will see much in the way of nVidia mobile market this year.

I'm not seeing any domination here from nVidia, only ATI catching up quick. This is good for us all since this will inspire innovation.


You can't argue this mustang, I even provided sources, but go ahead and try. I, like most people, enjoy being right, so go ahead and give me more reasons to tell the truth.

Mustang, you just got chumped. The end.

 

[notty22]

The GTX 285 competes with the 5850. Jans chart same as Dec and Nov

The 5850 IS NOT the 5870. It does not perform the same. Go look at all the 5850 articles when it hit the market. The 5870 became the fastest single gpu card when it was introduced, the 5850 trades blows with the gtx 285 which was the old fastest single gpu.

 

[maximiza]

Sell your Nvidia stock while you can.

 

[AMW1011]

The GTX 285 competes with the 5850. Jans chart same as Dec and Nov
http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr185/notty222/gpuheirarchy.png


The 5850 IS NOT the 5870. It does not perform the same. Go look at all the 5850 articles when it hit the market. The 5870 became the fastest single gpu card when it was introduced, the 5850 trades blows with the gtx 285 which was the old fastest single gpu.

No the 5850 is 10-15% faster across the board, just go away notty we don't need more lies in this thread.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

No the 5850 is 10-15% faster across the board, just go away notty we don't need more lies in this thread.

You need to actually explain it rather than just calling it lies.

The GTX 285 competes with the 5850. Jans chart same as Dec and Nov
http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr185/notty222/gpuheirarchy.png


The 5850 IS NOT the 5870. It does not perform the same. Go look at all the 5850 articles when it hit the market. The 5870 became the fastest single gpu card when it was introduced, the 5850 trades blows with the gtx 285 which was the old fastest single gpu.

The chart only ranks something as a full tier above another if it's significantly better (ie. 40% better or more)

The 5850 is about 15% better than the GTX285, so it's not enough to warrant an entirely new tier.


You see the GTX260 and GTX275 lumped together, even though everyone knows the GTX275 is clearly better...by around 15%-20% or so.

 

[Mousemonkey]

You need to actually explain it rather than just calling it lies.




The chart only ranks something as a full tier above another if it's significantly better (ie. 40% better or more)

The 5850 is about 15% better than the GTX285, so it's not enough to warrant an entirely new tier.


You see the GTX260 and GTX275 lumped together, even though everyone knows the GTX275 is clearly better...by around 15%-20% or so.

I would have used something like this :-

Spoiler

to try and get the point across but I don't want to be seen as a fanboy. [:mousemonkey]

 

[AMW1011]

Yeah, MM I could have shown how easily the 5850 outpaces the GTX 285, but I'm tired.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Best answer selected by TheGreatGrapeApe.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

Best answer selected by TheGreatGrapeApe.

n
nlol, nice.

 

[notty22]

Yeah, MM I could have shown how easily the 5850 outpaces the GTX 285, but I'm tired.

No , you should be tired from pulling your hissy fit earlier in the thread when people tell you the facts that the GTX 285 trades blows with the 5850, I can show you half the 5850 launch reviews that show it.
Grow up, with your lie ***.
Heres a article that compare the 285 to the 5870
http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Graphics-cards/ATI-Radeon-HD-5870-vs-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX285/Page-5.html
But of course all the ATI fanbois here , use the 5870 figures in their delusions of Grandeur for the 5 series cards when they force feed them down everyones throat.

Edit: the gtx 260,275 are together because they have NO COMPETITION from ATI.
The 5770 is slower than the 4870 the GTX 260 runs with those, yawn 2 year old tech, and the GTX 275 spanks the 4890.

 

[Rustyy117]

No , you should be tired from pulling your hissy fit earlier in the thread when people tell you the facts that the GTX 285 trades blows with the 5850, I can show you half the 5850 launch reviews that show it.
Grow up, with your lie ***.
Heres a article that compare the 285 to the 5870
http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Graphics-cards/ATI-Radeon-HD-5870-vs-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX285/Page-5.html
But of course all the ATI fanbois here , use the 5870 figures in their delusions of Grandeur for the 5 series cards when they force feed them down everyones throat.

Edit: the gtx 260,275 are together because they have NO COMPETITION from ATI.
The 5770 is slower than the 4870 the GTX 260 runs with those, yawn 2 year old tech, and the GTX 275 spanks the 4890.

A HD4870 1GB competes against the GTX260

A HD4890 competes against the GTX275

It still remains that buying a GTX285 now is silly when you could buy a cheaper HD5850 that produces less heat, uses less power and is on par with the more expensive GTX285, Hell, it might even beat the GTX285 now that the drivers have matured alittle. For some people DX11 isn't important, but equally to some people physX isn't important.

People will buy whatever card they want, its their choice. Personally I don't care what other people buy, So If a person that is less tech savvy than us comes and reads this thread and thinks "Woah GTX285 is amazing, I'm going to buy 3 right now" I don't care its up to them.....Their money, their choice at the end of the day.

I see where your coming from AMW1011, But there is always going to be nVdia and ATi fanboys, You'd be argueing your point for the rest of your life.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Weve already seen Anands numbers, and frankly, Ill take their number over the site you posted.