VBDude
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Your arguments might be valid but the $400 price is wrong. Try $100 for Home Basic, $119 for Home Premium, $150 for Business and $200 for Ultimate. All of them give you DX10 and the most expensive is half of what you're claiming it costs.
No my friend you are wrong that is for the OEM versions of all of that.
No my acquaintance, you are wrong. Those are upgrade prices. 400 is the full version of Ultimate. Who among you doesn't already have a valid Windows XP license? Why in the world would you buy a full version when the upgrade is half the price and you already meet the requirements to use it? And why in the world would you repeatedly post the same point ("M$ Pista suxorz my buttsorz!") when you don't have valid one?
Perhaps you need mpjesse's advice again:
(BTW, I changed the link to a higher quality version.
)Well let's break this down a little...
The new API supports the new archictures. While I'm sure a DX10 API could map new commands to older architecture with some help, the performance won't be there. Or so I have to presume ;-).
Then you have to wonder about the performance of third party DX packages. Folks worrying about whether they're getting 140fps or 150fps in some FPS game (even though your eye can't discern the difference and display scan rates won't reveal the improvement) will certainly be concerned.
I'm going to completely bypass all the stuff that VARs, IT architects and CIOs look for in terms of supportability, managability, etc. for a moment.
First example, how come Dragon Naturally Speaking recently started appearing on bargain shelves? Easy, it's because speech recognition is built into Vista now. I haven't tried it yet so I'm not sure if it's as good (however good you think DNS may have been), but it's there. Good, DNS needed the competition, it was getting stale.
Search mechanisms have improved vastly. Honestly, I don't understand why these tools weren't available ten years ago. I thought when OS/2 came up with Extended Attributes that someone would think of leveraging the bits. Sheesh.
Windows' traditionally lame backup mechanisms are finally serious and usable.
They've tried to make home networking idiot-proof. I'm convinced this will cause people like me - who make money from people who are afraid of simple things like activating a cellphone - to discover an entirely new category of idiots. But I'm a cynical bastard.
Vista includes a lot of performance features geared toward some tech that is Not Quite Here Yet. Things like hybrid HDs are a little too young still, but the capability is promising. Maybe they knew it won't be usable for two more years but felt like adding it to Vista to make the package more impressive. Anybody's guess.
And they took another major step toward preventing Internet Explorer and Windows itself from being the Typhoid Mary of the Internet. I'll reserve judgement for a few months, waiting to see what the malware authors can accomplish and how many users will shoot themselves in the foot by turning off the annoying prompts.
It's not like I had to dig through gigabytes of Google'd pages to find this crap, it's two clicks away on MS' site. Well, at least without the skeptical editorializing. Click more, find more.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no MS fan, even though it's providing me a fine living at the moment, and my favorite clip in the world is in South Park the Movie where Windows crashes during his presentation and he shoots Bill Gates. But since I'm doing this stuff for a living I think it's helpful to show you a more balanced point of view. Well, skeptically balanced anyway.
And thanks, Microsoft, for helping drive millions more nails into the coffin of Fair Use. F*** you all where you breathe, you and your weak-knee'd limp-wristed pathetic sanction-magnets you've hired as lawyers.
I just had to say that.
Sabenfox, if I had to guess, WinFS was probably just too much of a performance pig for the current state of hardware. Although that has never stopped the Flight Simulator team. And I'm in no hurry to have a SQL -based engine running a file system, thanks. What a scary thought.
Gahleon, darn socialist! :lol: Yeah, a fine line between capitalism and thievery. It's all interpretation, eh. By the way, let me remind you all that there's a hell of a lot more to Microsoft than Windows.
nhobu, I could care less about activation cracks - those are for pirates - but show me some cracks that can put fair use back into the hands of the masses and you'll have my attention.
And to anyone who makes even the vaguest reference to copy-catting GUI elements, let me point out that everyone steals from everyone else. Apple swiped from PARC, MS swiped from Apple, they both swiped from Sun, etc. etc. etc. Big deal. Emulation is the sincerest form of flattery, and beats letting the product become stale.
-Brad
The upgrade is roughly half the price. Well, unless you were upgrading from a pirated XP. Or unless you're an OCD nutcase like me who likes to have un-tethered licenses whenever possible. Or maybe you're not referring to US currency?
Well yeah, it's just an API. But DirectX is a Microsoft product, right? Is there a DirectX API native in OS-X or Linux? No. So unless or until someone makes a third-party API package, either commercial or open source, then MS' FUD is more or less on mark.
The new API supports the new archictures. While I'm sure a DX10 API could map new commands to older architecture with some help, the performance won't be there. Or so I have to presume ;-).
Then you have to wonder about the performance of third party DX packages. Folks worrying about whether they're getting 140fps or 150fps in some FPS game (even though your eye can't discern the difference and display scan rates won't reveal the improvement) will certainly be concerned.
This just tells me you haven't been paying attention.
I'm going to completely bypass all the stuff that VARs, IT architects and CIOs look for in terms of supportability, managability, etc. for a moment.
First example, how come Dragon Naturally Speaking recently started appearing on bargain shelves? Easy, it's because speech recognition is built into Vista now. I haven't tried it yet so I'm not sure if it's as good (however good you think DNS may have been), but it's there. Good, DNS needed the competition, it was getting stale.
Search mechanisms have improved vastly. Honestly, I don't understand why these tools weren't available ten years ago. I thought when OS/2 came up with Extended Attributes that someone would think of leveraging the bits. Sheesh.
Windows' traditionally lame backup mechanisms are finally serious and usable.
They've tried to make home networking idiot-proof. I'm convinced this will cause people like me - who make money from people who are afraid of simple things like activating a cellphone - to discover an entirely new category of idiots. But I'm a cynical bastard.
Vista includes a lot of performance features geared toward some tech that is Not Quite Here Yet. Things like hybrid HDs are a little too young still, but the capability is promising. Maybe they knew it won't be usable for two more years but felt like adding it to Vista to make the package more impressive. Anybody's guess.
And they took another major step toward preventing Internet Explorer and Windows itself from being the Typhoid Mary of the Internet. I'll reserve judgement for a few months, waiting to see what the malware authors can accomplish and how many users will shoot themselves in the foot by turning off the annoying prompts.
It's not like I had to dig through gigabytes of Google'd pages to find this crap, it's two clicks away on MS' site. Well, at least without the skeptical editorializing. Click more, find more.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no MS fan, even though it's providing me a fine living at the moment, and my favorite clip in the world is in South Park the Movie where Windows crashes during his presentation and he shoots Bill Gates. But since I'm doing this stuff for a living I think it's helpful to show you a more balanced point of view. Well, skeptically balanced anyway.
And thanks, Microsoft, for helping drive millions more nails into the coffin of Fair Use. F*** you all where you breathe, you and your weak-knee'd limp-wristed pathetic sanction-magnets you've hired as lawyers.
I just had to say that.
Sabenfox, if I had to guess, WinFS was probably just too much of a performance pig for the current state of hardware. Although that has never stopped the Flight Simulator team. And I'm in no hurry to have a SQL -based engine running a file system, thanks. What a scary thought.
Gahleon, darn socialist! :lol: Yeah, a fine line between capitalism and thievery. It's all interpretation, eh. By the way, let me remind you all that there's a hell of a lot more to Microsoft than Windows.
nhobu, I could care less about activation cracks - those are for pirates - but show me some cracks that can put fair use back into the hands of the masses and you'll have my attention.
And to anyone who makes even the vaguest reference to copy-catting GUI elements, let me point out that everyone steals from everyone else. Apple swiped from PARC, MS swiped from Apple, they both swiped from Sun, etc. etc. etc. Big deal. Emulation is the sincerest form of flattery, and beats letting the product become stale.
-Brad
ugh well 200 dollars for the new directx. come on man.
no actually the new architectures were made to support directx 10 specs.
the point is that there is no reason not to have dx10 on xp, except to force people to upgrade. 200 dollars for directx.
i dont use speech recognition software, in fact i dont know anyone who does. this is not a benefit to me or most people, or at least not a feature that people have been clamoring for.
the regular search feature works just fine for me. i figured when windows came with a pictures folder and a music folder and a video folder everyone would be competent enough to download, upload, unzip whatever, files into the appropriate folder i guess not. but yet again, this is a feature i dont need. not worth 200 dollars or even 20 dollars to me. 2 dollars maybe.
and the whole copy catting thing who cares, the point is power users arent going to use the aero interface anyway, so what is the incentive for a power user to upgrade... directx. for 200 dollars.
Chicken, egg, omelette, whatever.
Which reminds me, I find it interesting that after so much bitching about NetBurst that folks are running out and buying GPUs that are even worse. But I digress...
I haven't even tried Aero yet so I can't offer any opinions about what "power users" might prefer, but I think you're confusing power users and gamers.
And as for your insistence on ignoring absolutely every other change and improvement and harping "DirectX 10 for $200", well, let's go with that. Considering what gamers have been known to spend just for some LEDs, anodized aluminum and for heavens sakes, graphics cards like the X1950 XTX - two of them, even - that $200 may just be a drop in the bucket relatively speaking.
Personally, I'm interested to see what DX10 will bring. I have a copy of FS-X sitting on a shelf waiting to be installed. This is a piece of software that is horribly CPU bound, to the point that spending a thousand dollars on graphics equipment doesn't make a statistically relevant difference. If I read things right, DX10 has the potential to start offloading some of that CPU work and make it all look better too. Or so I hope!
And considering the wad I blew this month on the parts my new rig (post in the homebuilt forum will be made shortly), I gotta news flash for you, $200 IS a drop in the bucket.
-Brad
sweatlaserxp
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My sentiments exactly. If you're an enthusiast spending $500-1000+ a year staying up to date with new graphics cards, Corsair RAM, etc., upgrading to Vista is an insignificant liability on your wallet.
enforcer22
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kukito
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I've been hearing the $400 price argument for months because that's what Microsoft announced as the top price. But now that we know about the upgrade and OEM prices one would think the critics would at least take them into consideration, but nooooo... They continue with the same rant, over and over, $400 till their face turns blue. I imagine they'll call Newegg and complain that they can't charge $100 because that would force them to change the script of their favorite bitch session. I dislike Microsoft as much as anyone but this is ridiculous.
enforcer22
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:roll:
I realise there are alot of versions of linux but the more populer (you can buy it in a store) that the average user is gunna buy is slower then windows and vastly more bloted. EVERY new OS no matter what its made for slows your computer down more then the last. Seriously that argument is retarded. so once again
:roll:
tamalero
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- Oct 25, 2006
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yeah a mayor rebuild to screw us and buy super hardware to tolerate their overprotective crap and lots of DRM protective bull...
imagine having to load a 800 MB data file of microsoft protection driver, just to try to watch your favorite .avi file.
and to that guy who b1tched about gaming on linux and no other api than directX, try opengl ¬_¬
jitpublisher
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- May 16, 2006
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My god I am gonna vent too.
MS has the new version of Explorer 7 set to download and install if you have your auto-update turned on. One day, I turn on my PC, and *POOF* I have IE 7. Huh?
Then they write an article that states something like "42 bazillion people upgraded to IE 7 in 2006" like everyone really WANTED to because it's soooooo waaaaayyyyyyyy much better than anything else...
Okay, sorry, I'm done.
MS has the new version of Explorer 7 set to download and install if you have your auto-update turned on. One day, I turn on my PC, and *POOF* I have IE 7. Huh?
Then they write an article that states something like "42 bazillion people upgraded to IE 7 in 2006" like everyone really WANTED to because it's soooooo waaaaayyyyyyyy much better than anything else...
Okay, sorry, I'm done.
enforcer22
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sounds like its your dumb ass fault for actualy leaving that on...... sorry normaly i wouldnt put it so blunt but blaming something thats your fault on someone else is pretty damn stupid.
jitpublisher
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Portland OR,
Lived in Lake Oswego for years.
Lot of really nice people there, what happened to you, someone piss in your Post Toasties this morning? Or were you just born an ass****.
Lived in Lake Oswego for years.
Lot of really nice people there, what happened to you, someone piss in your Post Toasties this morning? Or were you just born an ass****.
enforcer22
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well yeah i am a ass but like i said normaly i wouldnt have said anything like that. Just blaming MS for you leaving it on didnt seem right to me.
Im actauly in forest grove now moving to beaverton soon 😱
Im actauly in forest grove now moving to beaverton soon 😱
VBDude
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Do you run "Typical" installs by any chance?
Anyway, I too have auto-download enabled, but that doesn't auto-install patches. That annoying pop-up tells me they're available. Then I click it, then I click "Custom" instead of leaving it at "Express." That way you can de-select IE7 and have fun with the eighth worst tech product of all time. (Hey look, MS Bob.) :tongue:
(BTW, hey neighbor. I'll be down in Oregon City in a couple weeks. Any good gas pumpers I should know about, or sales-tax free items I should pick up?
)jitpublisher
Splendid
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Well, if take a look at what I actually said, I don't see where I "blamed" anyone for anything?
My point was Micosoft was bragging about the number of people who upgraded to the new IE. What they didn't say in that article was that it is an automatic download that you got if you have that feature turned on. So a very large percentage of people got it automatically, not because they seeked it out purposely and installed it, as MS would like to have you believe. 80% of the people who installed IE7 probably had no idea why or how they got it. Most of them have no idea that you can even turn the auto-update feature off.
Which by the way, if have you have it disabled, and you go download a security update or patch, notice how it seems to turn it's self back on?
Now why you would read more into it than that, and jump in with all the insulting remarks is way beyond me.
My point was Micosoft was bragging about the number of people who upgraded to the new IE. What they didn't say in that article was that it is an automatic download that you got if you have that feature turned on. So a very large percentage of people got it automatically, not because they seeked it out purposely and installed it, as MS would like to have you believe. 80% of the people who installed IE7 probably had no idea why or how they got it. Most of them have no idea that you can even turn the auto-update feature off.
Which by the way, if have you have it disabled, and you go download a security update or patch, notice how it seems to turn it's self back on?
Now why you would read more into it than that, and jump in with all the insulting remarks is way beyond me.
jitpublisher
Splendid
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Yeah, I just let them install. I used to moniter everything, but what the heck. That's not what bothers me at all. I can use IE7, no big deal.
Like I replied to the other guy in Portland, it's not that I care that I got it, it's just the way MS set it up to auto install, and then proceeded to brag about all the people that seemingly just had to have it.
Like I replied to the other guy in Portland, it's not that I care that I got it, it's just the way MS set it up to auto install, and then proceeded to brag about all the people that seemingly just had to have it.
VBDude
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No biggie. The only reason I upgraded was because of the zoom feature. I visit Homestarrunner.com a lot. At 1600x1200, flash sucks.
I dl-ed Firefox 2 just as fast...after about a month.
I dl-ed Firefox 2 just as fast...after about a month.
skittle
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Just a small note to the "power users" who dont want to use aero:
Aero will run faster than than the other interfaces in vista. Vista offloads the Aero workload to your GPU, while the windows classic and basic interfaces are given to the CPU to do.
I ran vista on a celeron 410, 512mb of ram and intel GMA950 integrated graphics without a hitch.. smooth as butter.
As far as DX10 goes, i hear its functionality will be ported back to XP... called DX9L.
Stop whining, Vista will be great after a couple of service packs.
Oh and WINFS is coming, they just delayed it a lot.
Installing Vista is also WAY faster than XP, like 20minutes from boot to finish.
The masses wont be switching to Linux soon, not unless its as easy and compatible as XP/vista (vista is already compatible with MOST hardware certified for XP)
And you dont need Vista Ultimate... although it does come with volume shadow copy... which lets you restore edited files on the fly (one of the best features IMO) all you need is home premium - $239 for the retail version.
<3 skittle
Aero will run faster than than the other interfaces in vista. Vista offloads the Aero workload to your GPU, while the windows classic and basic interfaces are given to the CPU to do.
I ran vista on a celeron 410, 512mb of ram and intel GMA950 integrated graphics without a hitch.. smooth as butter.
As far as DX10 goes, i hear its functionality will be ported back to XP... called DX9L.
Stop whining, Vista will be great after a couple of service packs.
Oh and WINFS is coming, they just delayed it a lot.
Installing Vista is also WAY faster than XP, like 20minutes from boot to finish.
The masses wont be switching to Linux soon, not unless its as easy and compatible as XP/vista (vista is already compatible with MOST hardware certified for XP)
And you dont need Vista Ultimate... although it does come with volume shadow copy... which lets you restore edited files on the fly (one of the best features IMO) all you need is home premium - $239 for the retail version.
<3 skittle
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