[SOLVED] My little fighter jet!

[zdking]

Hiya all!

Im getting pretty sick and tired of my computer sounding like a fighter jet, specially as soon as I launch a game. To that extent I've stopped playing certain games in fear of the damn thing taking off and blowing through the roof!

I can inform you that I swapped cases in December and installed CPU liquid cooling. It was nice and quiet back then, but for some time now (3-4 weeks maybe) I've gotten myself one little aggressive fighter jet in my living room. I fear that it might have something to do with AI suite 3's fan xpert 2+ as some time I messed about with the fan tuning in there. I've noticed that Im only able to control the fans on my liquid cooler through the programme and all the case fans doesnt show up at all. It's also the poor liquid cooler fans that completely takes off all the time.

My computer is idle at around 32-36 degrees, but as soon as it hits 40-50 degrees the liquid cooler fans goes totally rampage-viking-plunder-berserk. Almost like the 4 case fans are static and keeps the same no matter what (just a theory atm). Even at rare occations, when idle, my liquid cooler fans suddenly feels the urge to make themself heard with some teenage tantrum outburst for a few seconds on mostly three times intervals. I have absolutely no idea when it comes to this subject, or how top majestically describe it for that matter.

Is there anyone out there that understood this at all, and have an idea on how to fix the issue, before my dear little computer wrecks havoc on this planet?

P.S.: not that i think it really matter, but I managed to kill one of my ram sticks a few weeks ago, so its currently running on 8GB and not 16GB as it usually do.

Some specs for the spec-lovers;

CPU: intel i7 4790K
Motherboard: Asus Z97-P
Ram: HyperX Fury DDR3 1600mhz 16GB (currently 8GB until my new ram arrives)
SSD/HDD: Crucial BX100 250GB SSD, Samsung 1TB HDD and Hitachi 750MB HDD
GPU: Sapphire Radeon TRI-X R9 390X 8GB "OC"
PSU: Cooler Master G750M, 750W
CPU Cooler: MasterLiquid ML240R RGB
Chassis: Chieftec Scorpion II Gaming
OS: Win 10 Pro 64-bit

 

[Darkbreeze]

Uninstall AI suite, and never install it again.

Then, go into the BIOS and configure the fan settings from within the BIOS using the Qfan control settings or the per fan settings in the health settings, depending on how the BIOS configuration settings are set up for that board. Be sure you are in the advanced mode, not the EZ mode, when in the BIOS setup program.

AI suite, and all bundled software like it, are just asking for problems in practically every case.

Also, hopefully you did not order a single replacement stick of memory and ordered a replacement memory KIT instead. Memory that did not come together in a tested and matched SET, MIGHT work together, but often will not. If you want your sticks to play nice together, the only guaranteed way to ensure that is to obtain them in a kit that was tested at the factory for compatibility with each other. Or you can roll the dice on a same model stick that did not come tested from the factory, but, you ARE rolling the dice.

Also, considering that is a unit known for premature pump failures, if you've had this cooler for longer than a year then it's distinctly possible you are seeing the result of a pump that is beginning to fail and the fans are trying to make up for it.

 

[zdking]

Thanks for the answer

Uninstall AI suite, and never install it again.

I'd love to do that, but it wont let me uninstall automatically from add/remove programs. Guess that only leaves me to manually uninstall/delete folders.

Then, go into the BIOS and configure the fan settings from within the BIOS using the Qfan control settings or the per fan settings in the health settings, depending on how the BIOS configuration settings are set up for that board. Be sure you are in the advanced mode, not the EZ mode, when in the BIOS setup program.

Do you have any guidelines etc on what to do in BIOS? Thats one thing ive stayed clear of in all the years ive had a computer, as i never wanted to mess about in there.

Also, hopefully you did not order a single replacement stick of memory and ordered a replacement memory KIT instead.

Havent ordered yet as it all comes down to money, but YES, i will get a kit

Also, considering that is a unit known for premature pump failures, if you've had this cooler for longer than a year then it's distinctly possible you are seeing the result of a pump that is beginning to fail and the fans are trying to make up for it.

I've only had it for a little longer than a month, so I hope that eliminates the premature pump failure issue(?)

 

[Darkbreeze]

If you can't uninstall a program, then it is either infected or wasn't installed correctly to begin with. When THAT is the case, it is usually a good idea to start thinking about doing a clean install of Windows, because there are probably other things mucked up in the registry as well.

How To - Windows 10 clean install tutorial

If you are looking for the Windows 11 Clean install tutorial, you can find that here: Windows 11 Clean install tutorial (Click here) Otherwise, welcome to the Windows 10 Clean install tutorial This tutorial is intended to help you, step by step, to perform a clean install of Windows...

forums.tomshardware.com

It's no different than working with any other utility really. Go into the BIOS. Click on the Qfan control tab. Configure the settings for each fan or for the CPU FAN header, or wherever you are trying to configure settings for is connected.

WHERE are your radiator fans connected to? What headers, exactly, are they connected to? Where exactly is your pump connected to?

 

[zdking]

Sorry for the late reply mate, been a little busy and admittedly a little sick of trying to understand the issue and reading forums all over the place.

If you can't uninstall a program, then it is either infected or wasn't installed correctly to begin with. When THAT is the case, it is usually a good idea to start thinking about doing a clean install of Windows, because there are probably other things mucked up in the registry as well.

After some searching in the ROG forums I found a guide (and loads of complaints about AI suite) on how to uninstall it. As soon as I got that done the fans started to behave completely different - in a positive way.

It's no different than working with any other utility really. Go into the BIOS. Click on the Qfan control tab. Configure the settings for each fan or for the CPU FAN header, or wherever you are trying to configure settings for is connected.

Sorry for the less intelligent questions, but I've never tweaked around with any utility programs or BIOS for that matter before, so it was a first for me. Tried to google to see if there was any slider templates etc. but couldnt find any interesting information. I've managed to play around a little now and tweaked the settings in BIOS, and got it running so quietly and nice again, just like a month ago when I put it all together.

Just did a test run in Sea Of Thieves (trying to provoke some temperatures and the fans) and landed on around 42-44 degrees on CPU and 72-75 degrees on GPU. Still running as nice and quiet as idle, leaving the HDD to make the most noise. What do you think about those numbers?

WHERE are your radiator fans connected to? What headers, exactly, are they connected to? Where exactly is your pump connected to?

Pump is connected to CPU_FAN and radiator fans are connected to CHA_FAN2.

 

[CountMike]

Sorry for the late reply mate, been a little busy and admittedly a little sick of trying to understand the issue and reading forums all over the place.



After some searching in the ROG forums I found a guide (and loads of complaints about AI suite) on how to uninstall it. As soon as I got that done the fans started to behave completely different - in a positive way.



Sorry for the less intelligent questions, but I've never tweaked around with any utility programs or BIOS for that matter before, so it was a first for me. Tried to google to see if there was any slider templates etc. but couldnt find any interesting information. I've managed to play around a little now and tweaked the settings in BIOS, and got it running so quietly and nice again, just like a month ago when I put it all together.

Just did a test run in Sea Of Thieves (trying to provoke some temperatures and the fans) and landed on around 42-44 degrees on CPU and 72-75 degrees on GPU. Still running as nice and quiet as idle, leaving the HDD to make the most noise. What do you think about those numbers?



Pump is connected to CPU_FAN and radiator fans are connected to CHA_FAN2.

"Pump is connected to CPU_FAN and radiator fans are connected to CHA_FAN2." Mistake. With that cooler pump should go to AIO_Pump or CHA_Fan set to full RPM and fans to CPU_Fan.

 

[zdking]

"Pump is connected to CPU_FAN and radiator fans are connected to CHA_FAN2." Mistake. With that cooler pump should go to AIO_Pump or CHA_Fan set to full RPM and fans to CPU_Fan.

okay? obviously i need to have a conversation with my "tech guy"! ^^ Honestly, I dont think the motherboard have an AIO_Pump header(?). Would it be possible to just swap them around and adjust it in the BIOS?

 

[Darkbreeze]

"Pump is connected to CPU_FAN and radiator fans are connected to CHA_FAN2." Mistake. With that cooler pump should go to AIO_Pump or CHA_Fan set to full RPM and fans to CPU_Fan.

That motherboard does not have an AIO pump header. It's an older Z97 motherboard, and a budget model at that, so no, it doesn't have one. Check the specs.

@zdking , where you have it is fine. Your temperatures seem ok too although you probably need to do some actual thermal testing by running Prime95 (With AVX and AVX2 options disabled) on the "Small FFT" option for 15 minutes to verify CPU thermal compliance and Furmark to verify GPU thermal compliance, but overall it seems ok-ish for now. Obviously, quiet is good, but not if it overheats under a full load.

 

[zdking]

@zdking , where you have it is fine. Your temperatures seem ok too although you probably need to do some actual thermal testing by running Prime95 (With AVX and AVX2 options disabled) on the "Small FFT" option for 15 minutes to verify CPU thermal compliance and Furmark to verify GPU thermal compliance, but overall it seems ok-ish for now. Obviously, quiet is good, but not if it overheats under a full load.

So I did both Prime95 and Furmark like you said.

Prime95 - let it run for a little over 15min on mentioned settings without warnings or errors and the CPU stable at 67 degrees.

Furmark - ran two different tests: First test on the 1080 preset with a max GPU temp at 86 degrees. Second test (custom settings) ran for around 20min with an average GPU temp at 85degrees - 100% load.

 

[Darkbreeze]

GPU is fine.

CPU, can't be right. What are you using to monitor your CPU temperatures?

Unless some workers dropped out and you didn't know it, there is no way that your 4790k could run at full load and maintain a 47°C temperature no matter what cooler you were using. Not even if the ambient temperature in your room was like 10°C. Something is wonky. I suspect it's the monitoring software.

 

[Zizo007]

Use HWinfo to monitor temps.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Or Core Temp. Either HWinfo or Core Temp. Nothing else, unless you're running a Ryzen platform and then you should be using Ryzen master.

Monitoring software​

HWmonitor, Open hardware monitor, Realtemp, Speccy, Speedfan, Windows utilities, CPU-Z, NZXT CAM and most of the bundled motherboard utilities are often not the best choice as they are not always accurate. Some are actually grossly inaccurate, especially with certain chipsets or specific sensors that for whatever reason they tend to not like or work well with. I've found HWinfo or CoreTemp to be the MOST accurate with the broadest range of chipsets and sensors. They are also almost religiously kept up to date.

CoreTemp is great for just CPU thermals including core temps or distance to TJmax on older AMD platforms.

HWinfo is great for pretty much EVERYTHING, including CPU thermals, core loads, core temps, package temps, GPU sensors, HDD and SSD sensors, motherboard chipset and VRM sensor, all of it. When starting HWinfo after installation, always check the box next to "sensors only" and de-select the box next to "summary".


Run HWinfo and look at system voltages and other sensor readings.

Monitoring temperatures, core speeds, voltages, clock ratios and other reported sensor data can often help to pick out an issue right off the bat. HWinfo is a good way to get that data and in my experience tends to be more accurate than some of the other utilities available. CPU-Z, GPU-Z and Core Temp all have their uses but HWinfo tends to have it all laid out in a more convenient fashion so you can usually see what one sensor is reporting while looking at another instead of having to flip through various tabs that have specific groupings, plus, it is extremely rare for HWinfo to not report the correct sensor values under the correct sensor listings, or misreport other information. Utilities like HWmonitor, Openhardware monitor and Speccy, tend to COMMONLY misreport sensor data, or not report it at all.

After installation, run the utility and when asked, choose "sensors only". The other window options have some use but in most cases everything you need will be located in the sensors window. If you're taking screenshots to post for troubleshooting, it will most likely require taking three screenshots and scrolling down the sensors window between screenshots in order to capture them all.

It is most helpful if you can take a series of HWinfo screenshots at idle, after a cold boot to the desktop. Open HWinfo and wait for all of the Windows startup processes to complete. Usually about four or five minutes should be plenty. Take screenshots of all the HWinfo sensors.

Next, run something demanding like Prime95 (With AVX and AVX2 disabled) or Heaven benchmark. Take another set of screenshots while either of those is running so we can see what the hardware is doing while under a load.

*Download HWinfo


For temperature monitoring only, I feel Core Temp is the most accurate and also offers a quick visual reference for core speed, load and CPU voltage:


*Download Core Temp



​

Ryzen master for Zen or newer AMD CPUs, or Overdrive for older Pre-Ryzen platforms (AM3/AM3+/FM2/FM2+)

For monitoring on AMD Ryzen and Threadripper platforms including Zen or newer architectures, it is recommended that you use Ryzen master if for no other reason than because any updates or changes to monitoring requirements are more likely to be implemented sooner, and properly, than with other monitoring utilities. Core Temp and HWinfo are still good, with this platform, but when changes to CPU micro code or other BIOS modifications occur, or there are driver or power plan changes, it sometimes takes a while before those get implemented by 3rd party utilities, while Ryzen master, being a direct AMD product, generally gets updated immediately. Since it is also specific to the hardware in question, it can be more accurately and specifically developed without any requirement for inclusion of other architectures which won't be compatible in any case. You wouldn't use a hammer to drive a wood screw in (At least I hope not) and this is very much the same, being the right tool for the job at hand.

As far as the older AMD FX AM3+ platforms including Bulldozer and Piledriver families go, there are only two real options here. You can use Core Temp, but you will need to click on the Options menu, click Settings, click Advanced and put a check mark next to the setting that says "Show Distance to TJmax in temperature fields" and then save settings and exit the options menu system. This may or may not work for every FX platform, so using AMD Overdrive is the specific, again, right tool for the job, and recommended monitoring solution for this architecture. Since these FX platforms use "Thermal margins" rather than an actual "core/package" temp type thermal monitoring implementation, monitoring as you would with older or newer AMD platforms, or any Intel platform, won't work properly.

For more information about this, please visit here for an in depth explanation of AMD thermal margin monitoring.

Understanding AMD thermal margins for Pre-Ryzen processors





*Download Ryzen Master



*Download AMD Overdrive


Also, posting screenshots, when requested, is helpful so WE can see what is going on as well and you can learn how to do that here:

How to post images on Tom's hardware forums

​

 

[CountMike]

That motherboard does not have an AIO pump header. It's an older Z97 motherboard, and a budget model at that, so no, it doesn't have one. Check the specs.

@zdking , where you have it is fine. Your temperatures seem ok too although you probably need to do some actual thermal testing by running Prime95 (With AVX and AVX2 options disabled) on the "Small FFT" option for 15 minutes to verify CPU thermal compliance and Furmark to verify GPU thermal compliance, but overall it seems ok-ish for now. Obviously, quiet is good, but not if it overheats under a full load.

That particular CPU cooler is still wrongly connected, if AIO_Pump header is not available any header with ability to set to full speed would do.

 

[zdking]

GPU is fine.

CPU, can't be right. What are you using to monitor your CPU temperatures?

Unless some workers dropped out and you didn't know it, there is no way that your 4790k could run at full load and maintain a 47°C temperature no matter what cooler you were using. Not even if the ambient temperature in your room was like 10°C. Something is wonky. I suspect it's the monitoring software.

So sorry about that. Was tired yesterday when i posted, so didnt notice the typo. Was meant to say 67 degrees, not 47. Been using nzxt cam for the last year or so (eats alot of ram memory tho).

Anyhow, did another run in prime95 for about 18min using coretemp and results was as follows:

 

[zdking]

That particular CPU cooler is still wrongly connected, if AIO_Pump header is not available any header with ability to set to full speed would do.

So, from my understanding atm, is that the pump should run at 100% at all times?
Is there a specific reason it wont do so connected to CPU_FAN (and will do so at CHA_FAN2)?

Sorry for all the stupid questions - new to me and trying to learn

 

[CountMike]

So, from my understanding atm, is that the pump should run at 100% at all times?
Is there a specific reason it wont do so connected to CPU_FAN (and will do so at CHA_FAN2)?

Sorry for all the stupid questions - new to me and trying to learn

Yes, those simple AIO coolers should run with pump at 100% all the time, that's why MBs with AIO_Pump header have it non adjustable for speed and 3pin is enough. Reason is to have full flow available all the time, lower idle temps and allow for faster reaction time.
Radiator fans need to be connected to CPU_Fan header for same reason as in air cooling, to react on CPU temperature, if they are not than they might run faster or slower than it's needed to cool CPU.
CHA_Fan(s/case fan(s) ) are regulated by temperatures on MB, not CPU, MB parts are usually cooler than CPU so if you connect them to CPU_Fan they would run unnecessarily too fast and make more noise.

 

[Darkbreeze]

That particular CPU cooler is still wrongly connected, if AIO_Pump header is not available any header with ability to set to full speed would do.

How do you figure it's "wrongly connected"? It's not. The pump SHOULD be connected to the CPU_FAN header if there is no dedicated AIO header available, which it is. So I'm not sure where you get the idea that it's wrong. It should ALSO not only be connected to it, but it NEEDS to be set to full time 100% operation at all temperatures. No variable speed operation. 100% min and max operation.

The fans are a different story. Those need to be on a header that can be variable speed if you don't want to go batshit crazy from constant noise, which was the whole point of this thread to start with, so in my opinion, wherever he has things right now aside from possibly needing to set the CPU_FAN header setting to full time 100% operation, is correct.

 

[zdking]

I've marked the post as solved, as the computer seem to be running on decent temperatures and being quiet as well, as was the main issue.

Want to thank everyone for their input and excellent help and tips, and a big shoutout to @Darkbreeze for being of immense help and went the extra mile to sort it all out - thanks buddy!

 

[CountMike]

How do you figure it's "wrongly connected"? It's not. The pump SHOULD be connected to the CPU_FAN header if there is no dedicated AIO header available, which it is. So I'm not sure where you get the idea that it's wrong. It should ALSO not only be connected to it, but it NEEDS to be set to full time 100% operation at all temperatures. No variable speed operation. 100% min and max operation.

The fans are a different story. Those need to be on a header that can be variable speed if you don't want to go batshit crazy from constant noise, which was the whole point of this thread to start with, so in my opinion, wherever he has things right now aside from possibly needing to set the CPU_FAN header setting to full time 100% operation, is correct.

Radiator fans play same role as fans on an air cooler so they should be controlled same way.
Radiator plays the role of of the body of air cooler.
Hoses and liquid in them play the role of heat pipes in air coolers, transfer the heat from cooler base to radiator.
Pump is there to help circulation of liquid so it doesn't relay on convection only and speeds up heat transfer. from base to radiator.
Whole contraption is same as an air cooler with main cooler body located remotly from base. Would you advocate connecting an air cooler fans to CHA_Fan for instance ? Probably not. That's why there's a CPU_Fan header on the MB and it regulates fan speeds according to CPU temperature, not some other part on the MB.

 

[Darkbreeze]

It's not the same. It's completely different. Besides which, that motherboard allows you to assign the temperature monitoring source, either CPU or motherboard, so any of the Chassis fan headers can be assigned to the CPU thermal diode, which makes them no different than the CPU FAN header. End of story, so long as you go into the BIOS and change the temperature source for the header that the radiator fans are connected to TO the CPU rather than the motherboard which is what it is likely on by default.

 

[CountMike]

Right, why simple if you can make it complicated ?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Anybody who thinks connecting the pump to the CPU_FAN header and the radiator fans to one of the CHA_FAN headers, and then going into the BIOS and changing the CHA_FAN header to monitor the CPU thermal state rather than the motherboard thermal state, which is as difficult as choosing one radio box over another is too complicated then they probably shouldn't be building or configuring computer hardware in the first place. It's not complicated at all.

Trying to sort out the various RGB connectors and systems is far more complex, and even idiots seem able to do that so I'm not sure there's a level of complexity here that's deep enough to even be worth mentioning.

Conversely it really doesn't matter if you do it in reverse. You can connect the pump to a CHA_FAN header, put that to 100% full time usage and connect the radiator fans to the CPU_FAN header. Either way is going to do the exact same thing with the only difference being the extra step of changing a single setting in the BIOS. So if that is the complication you are referring to, then yeah, I guess that makes it too complicated for some people, or at least unnecessarily so since you could do it either way.