My water tubes get sucked in a little...

[icewolf69]

Hey all, pretty much got my new PC all done, except for a storage HDD that i'll have to RMA because it has the hickups; but i have a question about my water loop.

After my CPU storm block, my tubes get sucked in a bit, they flatten out. this continues from my CPU block to my reservoir, and maybe just a tad bit form my reservoir to my pump.

But from the pump exhaust pass the video cards, and into the intake of my Storm block, everything is good.

I tried supporting the problem tubes a little, by wrapping a spare power cable under them to support them a bit, and it did help, but I'm still kinda worried.

Specs are:

Swiftech 655 pump
swiftech mcres-micro res
tygon tubing (1/2" ID)
Storm R2 CPU block, and thermochill PA 120.3

I guess temps are alright, according to BIOS their around 28/30 idle, and according to like speedfan their around 38/40 idle. So i would *assume* it isn't restricting flow that much, but I've been wrong before.

If someone more experienced than me could let me know if this is a problem, or if this is normal, please let me know. Thanks for all your help!

 

[Houndsteeth]

Yes, it can restrict flow considerably. You know how when you are trying to suck a milkshake up through a straw, and the straw goes completely flat under the pressure ? THis is exactly what is happenig in your cooling loop. Option one is to buy fiber reinforced tubing (like Tygon) or you can try reinforcing the tubing by using something like Coolsleeves or plastic coil binders you can buy at most every office supply store (as long as it is an appropriate size for your tubing). This should help reinforce the tubing and keep its round shape, as opposed to flattening out under the pressure.

 

[tool_462]

What speed are you running your pump at? I had a little of that problem at higher speeds, but now I have a T-Line setup and that eliminated the issue.

 

[icewolf69]

the knob is turned all the way counter-clock wise, i couldn't figure out if that was full speed or lowest speed, it didn't say on my directions.

But either way i didn't change my temps ; ;

 

[icewolf69]

As I look arround the forums though, my temps do seem pretty high for a triple 120mm fan radiator water cooling set. hmm.

speedfan says 40c idle
bios is 30ish
core temp is 41-43 core 0 and 43-45 core 1

considering people are getting better temps on air..

 

[EricT]

If I understand your message, you are seeing nice round hoses from your pump to the radiator, and flattened hoses from the radiator back to the pump?

If that's the case, then I agree that it sounds like the speed of your pump is exceeding the flow rate of your radiator. And if this is the case, then you probably also have too much pressure in the lines going to the radiator.

I would try turning down the pump speed.

 

[tool_462]

It has a little groove that you turn with a flat head screwdriver. Whichever number (1-5) that groove points to is your setting. Turned all the way counter-clockwise is 1 and clockwise is 5.

I would try reinstalling the block on the cpu, make sure you dont use too much thermal paste. Your temps are pretty high, my loop with a smaller radiator and inferior CPU block doesn't even load as high as yours idles and I have a hotter running CPU. All things point to you having lower temps, I know the Storm is an impingent block and that may be the point of backup.

Does the tubing expand at all between the pump and the block? Usually it makes most sense to go from the pump -> radiator -> block -> res. The MCP655 dumps a fair amount of heat into the water itself so by having the rad before the block you will have the coolest water hitting the CPU. It shouldn't make a huge difference but it can help.

 

[Houndsteeth]

Actually, it takes a lot of heat to actually make a difference in water temperature, so whether the pump is before or after the water blocks is moot...you are still dumping heat into the system that has to be dissipated through the radiator.

I myself ran into a similar situation on my last build. My GPU would run (on average) between 40-45° C, while my CPU was running 29-35° C. The fluid in my loop would eventually settle at about 33-38° C. I measure water temperature in two places, coming out of the radiator and coming out of the pump. There was NO change in temp between the two, so the pump (an MPC655) was dumping an insignificant amount of heat into the system, if it was dumping any at all. As for my heat disparity between my cooling loop and my CPU, I am considering adding a peltier junction to the water block to bring it more in line with the loop and get better cooling for my CPU, though 38° C is more than comfortable for an E6600 running at 3.4 Ghz.

 

[Grizely1]

Let me get one thing straight: Is your tubing actually FLATTENED, or simply not perfectly round? (ie. elliptical).

Depending on what type of tubing (thickness, brand, material, etc) when you have a section that bends or twists the tube will flatten out, slightly. This does not affect flow. Unless your tubes are extremely flat then I wouldn't worry about it. It doesn't sound like the pressure inside your system is off. When you turned it off the tubes would go back to normal if that were the case.

Your temps are a little high though, sounds like the cpu block isn't seated right or perhaps there's too much thermal paste.

 

[tool_462]

Well more than one very knowledgeable person has told me the D5 is a warm pump, and after switching my loop around I tend to agree. Having only a CPU in the loop and the pump being my other heatsource may be part of it, but there is for sure a slight increase in temps when running the pump at full speed when the water goes pump > block > rad > pump then their is when it hits the rad after the pump.

I would do a few tests but I just got my case all set up and dont feel like tearing apart my loop just yet.

 

[Houndsteeth]

I guess I ought to make it clear...this was after at least an hour of running, meaning that the fluid in the loop had come to an equilibrium of heat gain and loss, and it looks like I have plenty of comfortable elbow room left. I did notice that there was a direct correlation between ambient temperature and the temperature at which the cooling loop would finally stabilize. It worked out that if I were to lower ambient temperature by 3 degrees, the fluid would stabilize about 1 degree lower.

Now when the loop is coming up to stabilization, there is a slight disparity between the temp coming out of the radiator and the temp coming out of the pump. Not much, and a lot of it can be attributed to the water blocks in between. If the pump is dumping heat into the loop, it is after the water blocks and before the radiator.

 

[tool_462]

Fair enough. Like I said, it could vary by individual set up.

 

[icewolf69]

Grizely1: No, the tubes aren't totally flat, their just not as round as say, the pump>radiator. I mean, the fluid is still going through it.

EricT: no the hose is fine from the Reservoir to the pump (and also to the radiator and the GPU's and to the CPU). The flattened hose is from the CPU block to the reservoir (the very end of the loop)

My total loop is Reservoir>Pump>radiator>GPU's (2)>CPU> Reservoir.

I would have liked to switch the gpu's and cpu, but because of space and other different dynamics, i had to go gpu>cpu. I figured in the end, the water is going to end up the same temperature overall no matter what comes first (after the first few hours of running).

I'm going to try to redo my CPU tonight. I Used 70% isoprpyl or whatever the hell it's called cloths to clean the CPU and block, and used AS5 for thermal paste, according to AS specs (straight line of paste, no spreading, just setting CPU evenly on).

I may try the finger in a plastic bag spread method this time. i wish i could get some higher alchohol, but i can't seem to find any here in hawaii, all the drug stores sell is 70%

I may stop by walmart tonight and check if it's still open.

P.S. Somehow between me recieving my storm block and me putting it in, i touched the the surface, and left a fingure print, that my 70% alchohol isn't taking off... could this be the problem? any suggestions on how to remove it?

thanks again guys

 

[joewho]

Hello All,

Don't mean to jack this thread, but yall were talking about temps on your watercooling rigs. I'm new to watercooling. Just finished setting up my Swiftech H20-220 APEX ULTRA kit on my A8N Prem motherboard. I'm getting very differant temps My Bios temp is lowest, my ASUS probe temp runs about 4c higher than BIOS and if I run A64-Beta it runs about 10c Higher than Bios. I read on Swiftech's web site under FAQ's.

Issues

The problem is that different manufacturers use different types/brands of probes, locate their probes in different areas of the socket, and use different formulas to calculate the temps. This results in significant variations from one motherboard to another, even with the same CPU. It is well documented for example, that Abit motherboards are on the optimistic side (reporting colder temps than actual), while Asus Motherboards are usually pessimistic (hotter than actual). Another significant disadvantage to this method is that the temperature inside the socket is highly dependant upon the amount and direction of air flow outside of the socket area.

Papst Fan Liquid Cooling
Processor Tbird Tbird
Frequency 1400 1400
O/C 1600 1600
Voltage 1.85 1.85
Watts 92 92
Mobo IWILL KA26 IWILL KA26
Swiftech Model MCX370 MCW372
Thermocouple 39.9 32.3
Motherboard CPU Monitor 41 45
Ambient 22 22
C/W 0.19 0.11
Measured in BIOS BIOS

What we see above is an impossibility! The motherboard monitor is reporting a higher CPU temperature with an MCW372 water block (45°C) than with an MCX370 air cooled heat sink (41°C). Conversely, the thermocouple is reporting a much cooler 32.3°C with the MCW372 than the MCX370's 39.9°C. Without this reference provided by the thermocouple, one would easily think that the liquid cooling setup is improperly installed or defective, whereas in reality the CPU is running significantly cooler than what is reported by the motherboard.

What happened ?

Since the water block doesn't generate any airflow around the socket, the air inside gets hotter, and the motherboard reports erroneous CPU temperature. Making things even worse, this particular board doesn't have a cooling fan installed on the Northbridge. Verifying this theory was quite easy: by installing a small 40mm on the Northbridge, we created sufficient airflow in the area, and the motherboard CPU monitor suddenly dropped in temperature from 45°C to 39C°C ! This is still an unacceptable 7°C difference compared to the actual CPU temperature, but at least this is getting closer to the truth ! Let us clarify that this particular motherboard has otherwise proven to be fairly accurate when used with our MC370 and MC462 class coolers.

This example clearly demonstrates the futility of comparing heat sinks with different airflow patterns by simply recording temps with the motherboard.

My question is how can I get a real CPU temp. And where can I buy it.

Thanks in advance.
Mike

 

[icewolf69]

re cleaned and seated my CPU and water block, Temps are still reading the same >.< used goof off to clean the cpu and block, then used 91% iso alcohol. made extra sure to set it even.

don't get it.

hmm

 

[jonkc]

My total loop is Reservoir>Pump>radiator>GPU's (2)>CPU> Reservoir.

I would have liked to switch the gpu's and cpu, but because of space and other different dynamics, i had to go gpu>cpu. I figured in the end, the water is going to end up the same temperature overall no matter what comes first (after the first few hours of running).
thanks again guys

Just a thought, I know you said that their is space restriction, but is there a way for you to go from your GPUxs to the Radiator to the CPU? It seems that the GPU blocks are heating the water just before you send it through your CPU block. If you send it from GPU through the RAD it will cool down the water before sending it through the CPU block...

Just my $.02