Need a fox racial template for 4e

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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:00:27 +1300, Rupert Boleyn
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:32:03 -0700, Jefferson
> <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
> > Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> >
> > > Vibration Sense would seem to be the best fit for Owls as well, but
> > > it's not quite right, either - it should be a form of passive sonar,
> > > but that's supposed to be represented by Discriminatory Hearing, but
> > > that doesn't do what you need. What's really needed is a passive
> > > version of Scanning Sense, but that's explictly for active sensors
> > > only. How about Vibration Sense with level in Acute Vibration Sense?
> >
> > If it's equivalent to vision, simply use Dark Vision. If it's not as good as
> > vision, you can use Detect.
>
> Darkvision is explcitly not sonar (though they may mean active sonar),
> and lets you see, so it is too precise, and a bad fit.
>
> As for Detect, we'd end up with Detect Stuff That Makes Noise
> (Precise) for 60 points, and it requires an IQ roll for the owl to
> tell the difference between a mouse running and a dog snuffling along.
> Not good.

And I forgot - Detect seems to work through walls.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:25:34 -0500, LukeCampbell
<lwcampbe@uci.thetrash.edu> carved upon a tablet of ether:

>
>
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> >From some things I've read about Leopards they could have a low degree
> >of Paranoid, though perhaps merely Careful would do.
> >
> That's okay, all my cat templates have careful. Some individual cats
> might be different, of course.

Do lions rate it? They seem to have a pretty casual attitude towards
life. When hunting they seem to just wander round watching until they
see something likely, and then they stalk it from whatever location
they happen to be in (according to one TV program I saw many of their
stalks fail because they don't take wind into account). This doesn't
strike me as careful, though maybe it's just being dumb, or being
Overconfident to a small degree.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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Rupert Boleyn wrote:

>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:25:34 -0500, LukeCampbell
><lwcampbe@uci.thetrash.edu> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
>
>>That's okay, all my cat templates have careful. Some individual cats
>>might be different, of course.
>>
>>
>
>Do lions rate it? They seem to have a pretty casual attitude towards
>life. When hunting they seem to just wander round watching until they
>see something likely, and then they stalk it from whatever location
>they happen to be in (according to one TV program I saw many of their
>stalks fail because they don't take wind into account). This doesn't
>strike me as careful, though maybe it's just being dumb, or being
>Overconfident to a small degree.
>
For male lions I drop Careful and add Overconfidence. The idea here is
that the lion is the protector of his pride - or, in less romantic
terms, he's got one chance to pass his genes on, and if he's overthrown
or his cubs eaten by hyenas or something, well, he's naturally selected
against. This also goes along with old beliefs about the courage of
lions and jives with everything I've heard about them - pretty much
fearless and willing to confront risks.

My lionesses keep Careful. In GURPS, Careful is worded to be more about
personal safety than preparation when carying out tasks, and lionesses
seem to be like most hunters in that they are jumpy and alert and will
back down from a situation where they do not have a clear advantage.
Lionesses may be less Careful than other cats (particularly the
uber-stealthy ones like leopards and cougars) but assigning mental
disadvantages is about as non-objective as you can get, so I'll just
keep it for simplicity. Feel free to drop it from lionesses (or all
cats, for that matter) in your game.

One scene from an African wildlife documentary pretty much exemplifies
this - a pack of hyenas attacked a pride of lionesses when the lion was
absent. The lionesses retreated and took refuge in some trees where the
hyenas couldn't get them. Then the lion of the pride came - a quarter
ton of feline fury. He charged into the fray and began killing,
dismembering and disembowling hyenas left and right. The shocked hyenas
beat a hasty retreat.

Luke

 

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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:41:10 -0500, LukeCampbell
<lwcampbe@uci.thetrash.edu> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> And maybe the limitation Does Not Detect Immobile Objects (at least for
> owls and other critters without vibrissae). Your hearing alone will not
> keep you from flying into a wall, after all.

It might if you make enough noise that you can get a primative sonar
effect. Of course, that lets owls out.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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LukeCampbell wrote:

<male lion: overconfidence in place of careful>

> One scene from an African wildlife documentary pretty much exemplifies
> this - a pack of hyenas attacked a pride of lionesses when the lion was
> absent. The lionesses retreated and took refuge in some trees where the
> hyenas couldn't get them. Then the lion of the pride came - a quarter
> ton of feline fury. He charged into the fray and began killing,
> dismembering and disembowling hyenas left and right. The shocked hyenas
> beat a hasty retreat.

I read about that. It's thought that the area it occoured is one of
hyena dominance, where lions are the ones to traditionally retreat from
faceoffs. That particular lion OTOH didn't know that, as where he grew
up the hyenas showed "proper respect".

Which species is dominant in each area probably comes down to odd
indiviuals like that one, who have enough natural agression to try
attacking and the luck to live long enough to get good at it; hyenas can
quickly and easily shatter a leg on a mere lion.

IMO /most/ male lions would be careful to the point of lazyness:
getting hurt is not an effective reproduction strategy. That individual
had a bad case of intolerance for hyenas, and perhaps over the edge.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.

 

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tussock wrote:

> IMO /most/ male lions would be careful to the point of lazyness:
> getting hurt is not an effective reproduction strategy. That
> individual had a bad case of intolerance for hyenas, and perhaps over
> the edge.

I am not sure. In experiments where researchers played recordings of
lion roars, they found that individual male lions would run to attack
the presumed location of the rival regardless of the number of roaring
lions. One would expect that a lone male would back down from pairs or
trios of males (groups of brothers will often work together to take over
or maintain control of a pride). Researchers guessed that lions acted
the way they did because if they were driven from their pride they'd
just about lost any chance of reproducing, so defending what they've got
against bad odds was selected for.

Also, the same documentary showed other cases of the male lions driving
off hyena packs. In that documentary, at least, it seemed that the
males were aggressive defenders of the pride.

And anyway, as I said it makes a nice link with folklore where lions are
supposed to be couragous.

Luke

 

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Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:00:27 +1300, Rupert Boleyn
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:32:03 -0700, Jefferson
>><Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>>>
>>>If it's equivalent to vision, simply use Dark Vision. If it's not as good as
>>>vision, you can use Detect.
>>
>>Darkvision is explcitly not sonar (though they may mean active sonar),
>>and lets you see, so it is too precise, and a bad fit.

So what if Darkvision isn't sonar? For sonar you use Scanning Sense because
you're actively sending out a signal, if you aren't sending out a signal, but
percieving equivalent to vision, that's Darkvision, which can be enhanced and
limited appropriately.

>>As for Detect, we'd end up with Detect Stuff That Makes Noise
>>(Precise) for 60 points,

40 points

>>and it requires an IQ roll

According to the rules, yes. Personally I think this should be a Per roll.
Hopefully Bestiary will have more information on this.

>>for the owl to
>>tell the difference between a mouse running and a dog snuffling along.
>>Not good.
>
> And I forgot - Detect seems to work through walls.

So limit it.

In summary: For a sense which doesn't specifically match any of the existing
sense advantages: If it uses an active signal, use Scanning Sense. If it's
as good as vision, use Darkvision. If it isn't as good as vision use Detect.
Some work may be required with enhancements and limitations to get the
precise effect.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/

 

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On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 16:23:52 -0500, LukeCampbell
<lwcampbe@uci.thetrash.edu> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Also, the same documentary showed other cases of the male lions driving
> off hyena packs. In that documentary, at least, it seemed that the
> males were aggressive defenders of the pride.
>
> And anyway, as I said it makes a nice link with folklore where lions are
> supposed to be couragous.

One doco I saw showed a pride where the male was getting a bit old,
and he'd 'gone lazy'. When other males showed up he'd carefully not be
around, unless a female was on heat, and the females were having
trouble with other predators like hyenas pushing them off kills, and
threatening their cubs. I got the impression that lionesses tend to be
a bit too careful in their attempts to avoid crippling injury, whereas
the males are crazy and everything out there knows that and tries to
keep out of their way.

Also, Capstick mentioned that many older Cape Buffalo bulls have scars
from loins trying to take them. Single male lions apparently sometimes
get it into their heads that they can take a buffalo, so they stalk
and leap on solitary bulls (which like to go off away from the herd
and sleep in the tall grass - I guess they like a bit of peace and
quiet . Usually the lion fails and then gets to see how fast it can
run.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 13:51:23 -0700, Jefferson
<Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> >>As for Detect, we'd end up with Detect Stuff That Makes Noise
> >>(Precise) for 60 points,
>
> 40 points

Are you saying that Stuff That Makes Noise is only 'common'?

> >>and it requires an IQ roll
>
> According to the rules, yes. Personally I think this should be a Per roll.
> Hopefully Bestiary will have more information on this.
>
> >>for the owl to
> >>tell the difference between a mouse running and a dog snuffling along.
> >>Not good.
> >
> > And I forgot - Detect seems to work through walls.
>
> So limit it.

By the time we've done all this it's going to have enough arbitary
stuff in their we may as well have simply made up a new advantage
'Passive Sonar'.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 13:51:23 -0700, Jefferson
> <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
>>>>As for Detect, we'd end up with Detect Stuff That Makes Noise
>>>>(Precise) for 60 points,
>>
>>40 points
>
> Are you saying that Stuff That Makes Noise is only 'common'?

Yes. Sound is included in all energy, so "only noise" is one step less
expensive. "All movement" _might_ be very common, but in most worlds I would
still classify it as common. The Very Common categories for Detect are huge.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/

 

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In article <ovs0u0psvfap00v0idun132hv4g1ke6d82@4ax.com> on Sun, 09 Jan
2005 13:02:22 +1300, rboleyn@paradise.net.nz (Rupert Boleyn) wrote:


> On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 13:51:23 -0700, Jefferson
> <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
> > >>As for Detect, we'd end up with Detect Stuff That Makes Noise
> > >>(Precise) for 60 points,
> >
> > 40 points
>
> Are you saying that Stuff That Makes Noise is only 'common'?

Walk into a couple of trees or walls

--
Richard Gadsden
"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death
your right to say it" - Attributed to Voltaire