Question Need Assistance Upgrading CPU on a Very Old HP Desktop

[toroca]

Hopefully this is the correct forum for this topic...

I would greatly appreciate some assistance in determining what the best processor I can upgrade to on a really old HP desktop is.

Before I go any farther, please do not waste your time or mine by replying if the only advice you have to offer is to "save up to buy a newer system." If that were an option for me right now, I would happily do so, but I cannot afford to replace the entire system at the present time. I can, however, afford to buy a replacement processor if I can just determine what will actually work.

Also, full disclosure, the computer in question is not connected to the internet; I do not at present have home internet access. I am writing this at my public library. Due to my work hours and the library's hours not being fully compatible, if you request additional details from me it may take me a day or three to provide them but I will do so as quickly as I can.

The motherboard on the system is a Foxconn 2ABF, Version 3.10 according to Speccy. After literally days of effort and research, I have managed to update the BIOS to AMI Version 8.14 dated 1/23/2013, from the 7.06 I started out with. I already know that the board will only support Sandy Bridge based processors (supposedly there are versions of the board that will also support Ivy Bridge with the right BIOS update, but I haven't been able to figure out how you determine whether you have that version of the board or not, short of buying an Ivy Bridge and trying it). Other possibly pertinent details reported by Speccy are:
Chipset Vendor Intel
Chipset Model Sandy Bridge
Chipset Revision 09
Southbridge Vendor Intel
Southbridge Model H61
Southbridge Revision B3
If any of those help narrow down the processor options, I haven't been able to find that information. Since every source I could find made it seem as if any Sandy Bridge CPU with a max TDP of 95W would work, I have already tried an i7-2700K. Multiple sources including this one suggested that model would work, but even with the updated BIOS, I get a message about an unsupported CPU being installed, and the computer shuts down. So either I've done something wrong, or not all 95W Sandy Bridge CPUs are in fact supported. Is the problem perhaps that the K series are designed for overclocking? Maybe an i7-2600 or an i5-2500 instead? I don't know what else to look for to figure out compatibility.

I have spent so much time trying to find these answers, and coming up with very little I feel confident in (especially after the failure of the i7-2700K). I simply want to extend the useful life of the PC for a little while longer until I can replace the whole thing. I'm not looking to play any modern AAA game titles or anything even close to that; while I do play some games on it, I don't think I have anything released in the past 8 or 9 years. I just want to make this system the best it can be for as old as it is, until I can finally replace the whole thing a year or two from now.

I thank you for your time, and any help you can provide.

 

[Lutfij]

So either I've done something wrong, or not all 95W Sandy Bridge CPUs are in fact supported.
You're dealing with a prebuilt that back in the day had a blacklist/whitelist for parts you could put on an HP or a Dell prebuilt/laptop. If that part was not on the BIOS microcode, it's unsupported as opposed to other board's like that from Asus or their ilk, you could drop in processors off of a list they had. You've mentioned the old HP desktop in your thread's title, I think you should've gone with the model/SKU of said HP prebuilt so we/you can look up the prebuilts options, and then move from there with regards to an upgrade inquiry(using Google). Prebuilts also tried to prevent users from tinkering with their builds to avoid false warranty claims or claims of user generated error.

This is what I've come to find;
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Deskt...e-maximum-to-upgrade-CPU-and-GPU/td-p/9059908
but contrary to that thread, the H61 chipset will not allow you to run your memory at DDR3-1600MHz, they will be effectively running at DDR3-1333MHz.

Which leads me to this point you'd made;

Before I go any farther, please do not waste your time or mine by replying if the only advice you have to offer is to "save up to buy a newer system." If that were an option for me right now, I would happily do so, but I cannot afford to replace the entire system at the present time. I can, however, afford to buy a replacement processor if I can just determine what will actually work.

You're better off saving the money, and not investing in a platform that's more than a decade old and is s dead platform. You can however polish it an retrofit it to have it up on shelf for posterity's sake but all it's doing is being a money pit, with negative return on investments. You've also driven away people who could swap you to a cheap build as well.

 

[toroca]

You're dealing with a prebuilt that back in the day had a blacklist/whitelist for parts you could put on an HP or a Dell prebuilt/laptop. If that part was not on the BIOS microcode, it's unsupported as opposed to other board's like that from Asus or their ilk, you could drop in processors off of a list they had. You've mentioned the old HP desktop in your thread's title, I think you should've gone with the model/SKU of said HP prebuilt so we/you can look up the prebuilts options, and then move from there with regards to an upgrade inquiry(using Google). Prebuilts also tried to prevent users from tinkering with their builds to avoid false warranty claims or claims of user generated error.

First, thank you for your reply.

I didn't realize companies were still doing that whitelisting thing, even back when this computer was new. I knew they had been even longer ago, when I bought my first PC back in the 90s, but I thought that had ended before this particular system was purchased. This one was actually a hand-me-down to me, so I wasn't involved in the original purchase.

At any rate, the computer is an HP P6-2220t. This page suggests that the i7-3xxx series is a valid upgrade path for this system, but that series is Ivy Bridge, and multiple other sources have indicated the motherboard will only accept those with a specific BIOS update. But I was never able to determine for certain this was true, and with what you've said about a whitelist, I suspect I remain out of luck on that score.

The BIOS I succeeded in updating to, by the way, (the AMI Version 8.14) was intended for the Pro 3500 Microtower discussed in the link you provided. Another HP support thread I can't seem to find right now had suggested it would work on my P6-2220t. I had previously attempted to upgrade from the 7.06 that was on my machine originally to the 7.16 Rev. A that yet another thread suggested would work, but that upgrade failed; even though it came from an HP support person who stated it would work for any P6 2xxx series computer. I decided to try the even newer 8.14 after I found the second thread stating it should work, and it updated with no trouble.

A question I have related to the whitelisting you've mentioned: if the whitelist/blacklist is in the BIOS, does updating the BIOS as I've done not change that? Because the BIOS I now have is about a year newer than what I started with, and newer than versions that have been said to support better processors than the i7-2700k I tried to upgrade to. Or is the whitelist specific to particular systems even with the newer BIOS version?

Continuing, this page lists four CPUs as compatible upgrades, three of which are i5s, but one of which is another Ivy Bridge chip. (the first processor it lists, the pentium G640, is what the system currently has)

This page features an argument about what processors would work, but since both posters' supporting links are dead, I can't see what they were referencing.

There are still more threads I could point to, but the library closes in a few minutes so I don't have time to continue.

Is there any way of seeing what CPUs are whitelisted and blacklisted in the BIOS?

Which leads me to this point you'd made;

You're better off saving the money, and not investing in a platform that's more than a decade old and is s dead platform. You can however polish it an retrofit it to have it up on shelf for posterity's sake but all it's doing is being a money pit, with negative return on investments. You've also driven away people who could swap you to a cheap build as well.

In all the research I've done, I have seen numerous threads where people replied saying nothing more than "you should just upgrade to a newer system" which is supremely unhelpful. I was hoping to head off any such replies myself, since as I've indicated I can't afford to do that right now. I can spend a little bit to get a small performance boost for now; most of the processors that are from the era in question are available used for less than $40, and even new unopened ones are only about $80 at most. Either option is financially doable and would get me a little bit of a boost until I can actually replace the entire rig with something up to more modern specs.

I do very much appreciate your thoughts and assistance, though. Thanks again.

 

[thestryker]

There's a reason why so many people are saying get something new just as an example: https://www.newegg.com/dell-optiplex-7040/p/1VK-0001-5JYT6?item=9SIABX7JRJ3904

It of course depends on where you're at, but there are usually a lot of refurbished business desktops available for low prices that are going to be much better than anything you could hope to do with what you've got.

The specifications on the 3500 show the following CPUs as options (only listing i5/i7):
i7-3770
i7-2600
i5-3470
i5-2500
i5-2400
i5-2320
i5-2310
i5-2300

In theory the BIOS has support for all of those and they should work. The fact that it posted with the 2700K and said wrong CPU leads me to agree that it's likely a whitelist.

 

[USAFRet]

Continuing, this page lists four CPUs as compatible upgrades, three of which are i5s, but one of which is another Ivy Bridge chip. (the first processor it lists, the pentium G640, is what the system currently has)

Those other CPUs are not necessarily "potential upgrades", but rather what that model may have been ordered with initially.

This is where the BIOS come in.
You may not be able to replace the existing CPU with a newer/better one, because your BIOS might not speak to a new/different CPU.

These things were not built to be upgradeable.


And in any case, you're not going to get magically better performance in 2024 terms.
That motherboard is stuck at 3rd Gen intel CPUs. Well over a decade old.

 

[toroca]

There's a reason why so many people are saying get something new just as an example: https://www.newegg.com/dell-optiplex-7040/p/1VK-0001-5JYT6?item=9SIABX7JRJ3904

Okay... I will admit to feeling a little foolish for not having looked into that sort of replacement... It honestly never even occurred to me that an entire system, albeit a still-old one, could be obtained for so little. Last time I was looking to upgrade a previous computer, years and years ago, that was not the case; replacement of the individual parts was cheaper by far back then. I'll have to look into it a bit more; if I'm going to go that route, I still can't afford much right now, but maybe I can find something better after all... Though I shudder at the idea of having to re-install all the software that's on the older machine (games and other). I don't play any recent games on it, but I think I have over 150 mods on Elder Scrolls: Oblivion alone.

The specifications on the 3500 show the following CPUs as options (only listing i5/i7):
i7-3770
i7-2600
i5-3470
i5-2500
i5-2400
i5-2320
i5-2310
i5-2300

In theory the BIOS has support for all of those and they should work. The fact that it posted with the 2700K and said wrong CPU leads me to agree that it's likely a whitelist.

Figures; if I had tried the i7-2600 instead, I might never have posted this thread in the first place. Of course, then I would have gone on believing a replacement system would cost much more than swapping the processor. The RAM and video card in the system were replaced a number of years ago, so that's the reason that the CPU was all I was looking at right now. Even though I'm aware that no matter what I did with it I wouldn't get any stellar performance improvements, that Pentium G640 is limiting what the rest of the elderly system is capable of, to a certain extent.

This is where the BIOS come in.
You may not be able to replace the existing CPU with a newer/better one, because your BIOS might not speak to a new/different CPU.

I know for certain that other people have been able to replace their CPUs on the same model from HP, but they may have had better fortune in trying one that the system would accept. Since the BIOS has been replaced with the one for the Pro 3500 MT, which uses the same motherboard, would I be correct in thinking that CPUs from the list thestryker found should work? Or is the much-discussed whitelist/blacklist located somewhere that doesn't get updated with the rest of the BIOS?

I'm not certain which route I will take at this point, I'll have to do yet more research to decide for sure. I may do both; replace the processor for now, and replace the system before too long. If I do that, I'll keep the older system for legacy software that doesn't play well with Windows 10/11.

I once again thank everyone for your help, and I would still appreciate any thoughts you all have on the remaining questions I've posed.

 

[thestryker]

Okay... I will admit to feeling a little foolish for not having looked into that sort of replacement... It honestly never even occurred to me that an entire system, albeit a still-old one, could be obtained for so little. Last time I was looking to upgrade a previous computer, years and years ago, that was not the case; replacement of the individual parts was cheaper by far back then. I'll have to look into it a bit more; if I'm going to go that route, I still can't afford much right now, but maybe I can find something better after all... Though I shudder at the idea of having to re-install all the software that's on the older machine (games and other). I don't play any recent games on it, but I think I have over 150 mods on Elder Scrolls: Oblivion alone.

I've noticed a lot of people don't think about it because historically it's been cheaper to upgrade what you've got. I think what it comes down to is that everyone's upgrade cycles have gotten longer so there are great deals to be had on older business systems that are still rather usable. If it's important to you Intel's 6th generation CPUs are the last ones with native Windows 7 support.

 

[BFG-9000]

If it's important to you Intel's 6th generation CPUs are the last ones with native Windows 7 support.

And OP's current system with a 2nd gen Intel is actually the last with full Windows XP support! 3rd gen Ivy Bridge platform mostly works in XP, just not the IGP or USB 3.0.

 

[toroca]

I've noticed a lot of people don't think about it because historically it's been cheaper to upgrade what you've got. I think what it comes down to is that everyone's upgrade cycles have gotten longer so there are great deals to be had on older business systems that are still rather usable. If it's important to you Intel's 6th generation CPUs are the last ones with native Windows 7 support.

I hadn't considered that, but thank you for pointing it out. If I do get a new (or more accurately, less-old ) system, it probably won't be a major concern. I'm not opposed to Win 10/11 per se, even though I've read a number of articles from hardware and gaming sites that argue Win7 was the last GOOD Windows for a variety of reasons.

Like I said, whether I replace the system now, or marginally upgrade it now and replace it later (but not as much later as I'd previously thought) I will probably keep the old one either way for legacy Win7 software. Granted, there's not that much of it, but there are some programs and games that are difficult to get working normally in anything more recent than Win7.

If/when I get a newer system such as the kind you linked to previously, is there any way to be sure of avoiding the kind of problems I created this thread about? For example, while I upgraded my ancient system's video card years ago with no trouble, in researching CPU upgrades I discovered that many people had issues upgrading their video cards on the same/similar models. Their problems may stem from the same sort of whitelisting issues we've been talking about, as oftentimes the cards they'd tried SHOULD have been compatible with the motherboard but didn't work.

I have no idea when I'll be able to afford to buy a new system (by which I mean something with tech from the most recent year or two) so I may be stuck in a cycle of replacing older systems with less-old systems, and it would be nice if I could at least replace the GPU or RAM or something without having to worry about anything more than whether the component is compatible with the system's motherboard/other hardware.

As always, thank you for your time and assistance.

 

[stonecarver]

If/when I get a newer system such as the kind you linked to previously, is there any way to be sure of avoiding the kind of problems I created this thread about? For example, while I upgraded my ancient system's video card years ago with no trouble,

The biggest no no buying a used system to some day upgrade the GPU is getting the Desktop model full case not the SSF little brother.

SSF models are great all the way to everything you want to do but as soon as you get that need for a GPU upgrade you realize quick your awesome SSF is a gaming door stop machine.

Height issues for GPU.

Underpowered PCI-E slot. Some not all models,

Underpowered power supply and rarely a path to fix to needed power supply being SFF size.

I'm 100% with used systems and you can strike gold and put together a killer gaming system just pass on SSF used systems.

 

[geofelt]

What is your current processor?
HP prebuilts are not designed to be upgraded.
Likely, there is a power limitation for the motherboard.
Can you find out what processors were initially offered as options?
One of them would likely be ok.

What is your budget?
Is windows C drive on a HDD?
If so, a SSD upgrade will make your pc very much quicker, even with the most basic cpu.

 

[toroca]

I'm 100% with used systems and you can strike gold and put together a killer gaming system just pass on SSF used systems.

I've personally never liked the smaller cases. My PCs live on/in a nice desk with plenty of space for a traditionally-sized tower case, and I know from friends' experiences upgrading their own PCs that the smaller case designs make it much more difficult to find hardware that fits, particularly graphics cards. So I already kind of know to generally avoid the small form ones. Thanks though!

What is your current processor?
Likely, there is a power limitation for the motherboard.

As stated earlier in the thread, the current processor is a Pentium G640, the second-weakest that was offered with this particular model of HP computer. The power limitation is maximum TDP 95w, as stated in my first post. All of the processors we've discussed in this thread meet this limitation, the problem is apparently down to whether or not HPs BIOS has whitelisted/blacklisted the particular CPUs being considered, and as yet I've found no definitive way of answering that for a given processor.

Can you find out what processors were initially offered as options?
One of them would likely be ok.

One of the threads I linked in an earlier post listed five processors that were initially available, aside from the one it currently has. Pentium G630, Pentium G680, and the i3-2120, 2125, and 2130. I'm sure any of those would indeed work, but none of them are really an upgrade, as they are all among the least powerful of their generation. I know for a fact that some i5s and i7s from that generation will work; this thread was about finding the most powerful one that would for certain, which is more difficult to pin down since the components in question are all 12 or more years old.

What is your budget?
Is windows C drive on a HDD?
If so, a SSD upgrade will make your pc very much quicker, even with the most basic cpu.

My budget is very limited right now, which is why I am even considering buying a processor for such an old system in the first place. I would like to spend less than $50 for the CPU, which I know is possible with such old tech, particularly if I go for a used one. It's just a matter of finding one that is definitely compatible with the system's BIOS.

As for the drive, yes it is an HDD. I considered upgrading to an SSD at one time, but never got around to researching them. And now all the trouble determining compatibility for CPUs has left me wondering whether HP blacklisted other components as well. As I hinted in my previous post, I am now considering replacing the processor on this old system and then replacing the whole system fairly soon with something less old. If I keep the old system around just for a few legacy programs, it's not worth also upgrading the hard drive if it's even possible to do so, as it would no longer be my main computer.

 

[geofelt]

You can buy a I3-2130 for about $10 plus shipping on ebay.
The benefit is mostly for running several tasks.
Cheap enough for an experiment.

SSD devices will be universally compatible.
What is the make/model and size of your HDD?
You should be able to clone your HDD to a SSD and simply replace the HDD.
A samsung evo 240gb is about $50 new.
I would avoid used ssd devices.

 

[USAFRet]

You can buy a I3-2130 for about $10 plus shipping on ebay.
The benefit is mostly for running several tasks.
Cheap enough for an experiment.

SSD devices will be universally compatible.
What is the make/model and size of your HDD?
You should be able to clone your HDD to a SSD and simply replace the HDD.
A samsung evo 240gb is about $50 new.
I would avoid used ssd devices.

870 EVO, 500GB, $53
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-500GB-Internal-Solid-MZ-77E500/dp/B08T1QQZ1T

 

[geofelt]

For $3 more, I pick 500gb .
The excellent ssd migration aid is now found in the samsung magician app:

Tool & Software Download | Samsung Semiconductor Global

Download various software related to your product, including Samsung Magician, designed for use with Samsung's memory products, and find related information.

semiconductor.samsung.com

 

[thestryker]

If/when I get a newer system such as the kind you linked to previously, is there any way to be sure of avoiding the kind of problems I created this thread about? For example, while I upgraded my ancient system's video card years ago with no trouble, in researching CPU upgrades I discovered that many people had issues upgrading their video cards on the same/similar models. Their problems may stem from the same sort of whitelisting issues we've been talking about, as oftentimes the cards they'd tried SHOULD have been compatible with the motherboard but didn't work.

There really isn't a good way around it when you're looking at refurbished business PCs. They're all going to have proprietary power supplies which is generally the biggest issue. Most of the time they don't lock CPUs in anymore, but upgrading CPUs is rarely a worthwhile endeavor. The last time meaningful upgrades really happened on the same platform was AMD's AM4 and a lot of that was due to how far behind they were. I think the above advice about just making sure you get a full sized/tower case is probably the best thing you can do to help with potential future upgrades.

 

[toroca]

There really isn't a good way around it when you're looking at refurbished business PCs. They're all going to have proprietary power supplies which is generally the biggest issue.

By "proprietary" do you mean "not easily replaceable" if at all?

 

[USAFRet]

By "proprietary" do you mean "not easily replaceable" if at all?

Exactly.
Different size, non-standard pinouts, etc, etc.