Need help with First Build

[stavarotti]

Hi everyone,

I am building my first pc and need some help as far as picking components. My current budget is capped at $650 and therefore would like to stay in that range. I am a casual gamer and my primary use for the computer will be mostly photoshop, some 3dmax, video processing, productivity apps, and a lot of java programming using eclipse. Anywho, here is my current configuration (I apologize for not having any links 🙁 ):

CPU
Intel Core 2 Duo e6750 $189

CPU Cooler
Cooler Master HyperTX 2 $27

Motherboard

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L Rev. 2.0 LGA775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard Retail $86 or
Asus P5K $137

RAM
Wintec Ampo DDR2 PC2-6400 - 2GB $61-$81

Graphics
GeForce 8600 GT 256MB $109

Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 320GB SATAII $80

Sound
Onboard $0

Case
Raidmax Smilodon $89/$74

Power Supply
Fortron AX-450PN $58

DVD-RW
Sony NEC Optiarc 7170 SATA $35

 

[chookman]

I dont do this for everyone 😉 i like budget builds with a ummm budget lol

Intel Pentium E4400 $135
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115014
Should do everything you want it to with no problems...

GIGABYTE GA-P31-S3G $73
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128077
Has most if not all the features of the P35-DS3L , the main difference is this baby supports 4gb rather than the 8gb of the DS3L. and for cheaper 😉

A-DATA 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 $45
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211066
800mhz so it will take a nice overclock of the cpu if needed. Cheap and its CAS4 😉

HIS Hightech H385F256NP Radeon HD 3850 256MB $179
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161211
Cant go past one of these atm will give you the playback support along with good frame rates in games. And with a mail rebate at the moment CHEAP

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136195
Or yours i like WD better

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068
Nice looking case

Antec NeoHE 430 ATX12V 430W $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103939
Plkenty of power for the HD3850

SAMSUNG Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW $28
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151155

Total $660

 

[stavarotti]

Thanks chookman, although I do have a few questions with your recommendations 😀

Firstly, I know you recommended the e4400 over the e6750. Is it worth it if I can spare 😱 the $40, from a future proofing since the 6750 has G0 stepping (I was told this was good?) and also since its the most favorable oc chip on newegg? What do you think?

Secondly, I had originally looked at the video card you recommended though chose not to use it because ati does not play too well with linux (dual monitor and general configuration). I know this all too well because I have an older ati 9600 pro that gave me hell with ubuntu. Maybe things have changed, I dont know, but may you please advise more on this 😀. Also the reason I originally chose the 8600gt was in anticipation of the new nvidia cards coming out next year which might drop the prices on the 8800gt(s). Once again, your advice is needed on this.

Lastly, what does the whole 18a rails, if that is correct, on power supplies mean, and just the whole railing issue in general. Your advice would truly be appreciated.

Oh, one other thing, ATX or ABX for motherboards, which is better?

Thanks for all your help on building my first PC 😀

 

[akhilles]

Java programming is pretty memory- & cpu- intensive. Everything is loaded into the memory. So a faster cpu & more ram will always help. 2 gigs is plenty.

Go with e6750 if you don't oveclock. Or a cheaper cpu if you do. See, it doesn't matter what core 2 duos you get, you'll be capped at 3.5-ish ghz on air. To break that limit, you're gonna need extreme cooling. To save money, overclockers get the slowest, best o/c-able cpu's & max 'em out. The e21x0 would be the best bang.

ATX all the way. ATX cases & accessories are like everything.

 

[stavarotti]

Okay, so would o/c the e21x0 require cooling that would otherwise cost me as much as getting the e6750 at stock speed? And given o/c, can I increase the fsb to a comparable 1066/1333? Also, though I speak of FSB, at what point does that come into play and how does 800/1066/1333 differ from one another?

I am sorry I have all these questions, I just want to make sure that I have the right build, for the right amount of money, that will not require too much o/c 😀. I am a newbie at this build and if I can get the right information, I will definitely o/c.

Additionally, should I go with NVidia or ATI if i am going to use the build with both linux and windows environements?

All your help is appreciated

 

[aevm]

I would ditch the CPU cooler and get a cheaper case (Centurion 5 is perfect).

Personal preference, I like to stay away from Sony products in all shapes, sizes and colors. A very popular DVD burner is Samsung SH-S203B.

If you can now afford to get a Q6600 instead of the E6750 you will see benefits in most of those activities you listed. For example Q6600 stock is 9% faster than E6850 at stock in Photoshop according to some benchmarks, and E6850 runs 12% faster than the E6750 thanks to higher clocks. When it comes to compressing DVDs my stock Q6600 does the job way faster than any dual-core ever invented. If you get the quad don't bother with overclocking, the hard disk will act as a bottleneck anyway.

 

[mattman5170]

I agree w/ aevm. I would definately stick with the higher C2Duo or a Quad, since the the added L2 cache in the 2 Core or the or Cores in the 4 Core will greatly improve the performance of the PC when using photoshop or video editing. Also the high FSB on the higher models will speed up you memory access which is extra important for the stuff you are doing. Also, ditch the aftermarket cooler, unless your going to do an extreme OC. The stock HSF will work, even for a mild OC, since the C2duo runs on the cool side.

I would recommend this CPU

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115030

It $20 cheaper than the 6750, has same L2 cache and FSB, and is only 330 Mhz slower. That can easily be made up for with a mild OC.

Like aevm said, the Centurion 5 case is an excellent case with great ventilation and it's $30 cheaper. It doesn't look as cool as the Smilodon, but it works just as well.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119047

Here is my setup recommendation for what it worth

Case: Cooler-Master Centurion 5 $45
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811119047
There is also a Silver one, but for some reason it $5 more!?

CPU: C2Duo E6550 $170
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115030
Bigger cache, higher 1333 Mhz FSB

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-P31-S3G $73
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813128077

Mem: Adata 2GB DDR2-800 $45
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820211066
Cheap and good for OCing

PSU: Hiper 480W $50
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817128005
Great PSU for the price over 30 amps on the 12v rails

Video: Sapphire Radeon HD3850 $170
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814102714
A little cheaper than HIS card, but just as good.

HDD: Western Digital 320GB 16MB Cache $80
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822136074
You could save a couple buck and get a 8Mb cache HDD, but this one should be slightly faster due to the bigger cahche

DVD Burner: Samsung 20X DVD Burner $26
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827151151
Good DVd burner. Not Lite-On or Sony as mention above.

TOTAL: $659

Hey slightly over your cap, but for the extra $10, you get a killer setup!!

 

[rgeist554]

PSU: Hiper 480W $50
http://www.newegg.com/product/prod [...] 6817128005
Great PSU for the price over 30 amps on the 12v rails

Hiper PSU is Tier 4. :s Has plenty of power, but I don't know if I would trust it. 😛

 

[aevm]

Yeah, Antec NeoHE and Fortron have better reputations. I also like Antec Earthwatts.

I'd prefer a SATA burner rather than PATA. The speed won't really improve but it's nicer to have narrow cables and no worries about jumpers.

 

[rgeist554]

I'd prefer a SATA burner rather than PATA. The speed won't really improve but it's nicer to have narrow cables and no worries about jumpers.

Yep, thinner cables (managed correctly) = better airflow. 😀

 

[stavarotti]

I really like the way this is shaping up. I appreciate everybody's help. A couple of questions though:

What is G0 stepping and is it necessary when considering o/c (clubit.com has the G0 version of e6550/e6750 and newegg does not specify)?

With video cards, everybody keeps recommending ati over nvidia, therefore does that mean the ati in general is better dollar for dollar on performance? Also, would somebody please let me know if the newer ati cards have good support on the linux side (wide screen and/or dual screen support)?

Additionally, although I am going to build my computer based on the recommendations of this forum, how does building a pc fair out over say a comparable HP Pavilion Ultimate d4996t series with the same specs for $600?

Once again, thanks in advance for the information. I will probably be ordering the parts over a period of two weeks as soon as I get the final recommendation 😀

 

[rgeist554]

G0 is better for overclocking. Just read around the overclocking forums a bit and you'll see what all the talk is about. (I'm too lazy to fish the posts up my self. 😛)

ATI is better $ / performance. I'd say that the HD3850 is the absolute best for that. The 8800GT 512MB are a bit over-priced, but still a good deal for the price. I'm not too sure about linux support... sorry that I can't help you there. :/

Anyone here will recommend you build it your self usually. The HP one could have the same hardware, but then you start dealing with locked BIOS and proprietary parts. (Which makes it difficult to mod and upgrade)

 

[aevm]

If all you've got is $600, then the HP has a good chance to be the best choice. That's because when you build yourself and spend 25% or more of your budget on Windows you are left with very little money for a decent CPU and video card.

That being said, I definitely recommend building your own. The HP can't be overclocked, it won't have lots of room for more disks, the PSU will be right at the limit and low quality, etc. HP designs decent machines for non-technical people. They do the job, they cost little, but they are not meant to be upgraded. They're disposable, like toilet paper.

 

[mattman5170]

Your not going to be able to OC really with an HP. HP's website lists the base d4996t for $900 and that only has a craptastic Geforce 7500LE Video Card. Definately not powerful enough for what you want to do. The only thing that is slightly better on the HP is the E6750 @2.66 Ghz. Remeber you can get this speed by OCing the E6550 only by a hair. This would be quite easy. An HP equivalent with this setup would end up being $1400 due to because upgrading to a 8800GTS adds an addition $500. So, actually in order to compete with the setup recommendations given here, you would need to buy a $1400 HP.

If you are worried about a warranty, all new computer components come with factory warrantys good for 3-5 years.

Sorry, but IMO a Brand Name is not worth shelling out another $800. Goin back to what aevm said, if you need money to buy the OS, you could cut back on a few things like HDD space going to an E4xxx CPU. That would cut enough off to buy the OS as well. But you said your running linux so..you should be good on that.

 

[50bmg]

Do NOT get an HP! I made that mistake. Now i am stuck with a locked bios. Come spring i will be reinstalling because i need a new mobo so i can get more out of my clocks.

over the last year i have done what i can: better PSU, ATI HD3870, 2G RAM, wide screen monitor. But now i am stuck. The HP mobo does not support the better CPU's and it will not OC. So, now i need to get an mobo and reinstall windows.

 

[Smoked Turkey]

Remember that any of the Intel Processors that have xx50 in them will have 4MB cache that will help greatly.

 

[stavarotti]

Can the e6550 be o/c to match the e6750 clock speed using the stock fan or do i have to buy a after-market one?

 

[stavarotti]

Thanks to everyone in this forum I am 90% there 😀. Here is my semi-final configuration, and please advise me as much as you possibly can (advantages and disadvantages 😀 ):

CPU
E6550 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115030 $169 (o/c without after -market fan from 2.33 -> 2.66 possible?)
or
E6750 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115029 $189

CASE
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119047 $44
or
RAIDMAX SMILODON ATX-612WB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156063 $89 (looks nice)

PSU
Antec NeoHE 430 ATX12V 430W http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=Antec+NeoHE+&x=0&y=0 $70
or
Antec TruePower Trio 550 Watt ATX http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=342178&cm_ven=Performics&cm_cat=Partner_k77616&cm_pla=text&cm_ite=j9244066_brand&ref=performics $70

MOBO
Gigabyte GA-P31-S3G http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128077&Tpk=Gigabyte%2bGA-P31-S3G $73

MEMORY
Adata 2GB DDR2-800 http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820211066 $45
or
G.SKILL 2GB DDR2 DDR2 800 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098 $46.99

VIDEO CARD
Sapphire Radeon HD3850 http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814102714 $170
or
XFX PVT84JUDD3 GeForce 8600GT http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150229 $129.99 (will pawn off to a friend of mine if/when the 8800gt(s) comes down in price)

HDD
Western Digital 320GB 16MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136195 Cache $80

DVD Burner
Samsung 20X DVD Burner http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827151151 $26

Forums like these make a newbie such as my self feel comfortable building as opposed to buying pre-configured machines I truly appreciate everybody's help! 😀

 

[HamRadio]

Stepping

 

[aevm]

Can the e6550 be o/c to match the e6750 clock speed using the stock fan or do i have to buy a after-market one?

Yes, it can match it with the stock fan.

 

[aevm]

I'd pick the E6550/HD 3850/550W/A-Data combination. That is, the PSU that gives more room for upgrade and the video card that can actually play recent games properly. I saw Crysis benchmarks with the HD 3850 at 37 fps and the 8600 GT at 10 fps.

Case/burner/hard disk - whatever is cheaper.

I know nothing about P31, unfortunately, so I don't know what's wrong with it (yet). I'll try to figure it out. Something has to be wrong, or P35 wouldn't be so much more popular. It's probably better to get one of these:

ABIT IP35-E, $97
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127031
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L , $103
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059

 

[aevm]

Stepping

No clue what you're talking about, care to elaborate?

 

[HamRadio]

What is G0 stepping and is it necessary when considering o/c

Stepping

No clue what you're talking about, care to elaborate?

Sorry for the confusion. Stepping is a clickable link to an explanation of what G0 stepping means. A few replies above, stavarotti asked what G0 stepping was. If you click the link labelled "stepping" above, you should hopefully find yourself reading the following:

In a word, a stepping is a revision. The letter is the major revision and the number is the minor revision.

The bits and pieces of an integrated circuit (IC or "chip") are formed on a silicon wafer using a machine called a "stepper" because it does its work via a process called "step and repeat". (It forms the features of one IC on the wafer and moves over before doing the next IC.) A 12" diameter wafer is big enough for dozens or hundreds of ICs.

The set of instructions to the stepper to form an IC are called a stepping. If the manufacturer fixes bugs or adds new features it does so with a revised stepping that get a new name (i.e. B3 is replaced by B4 or C0).

Is that the sort of answer you're looking for? I could go into a lot more detail, but I can imagine your eyes glossing over already.

 

[aevm]

OK, I'm silly, I never realized it was a link

 

[Smoked Turkey]

You should also try to sorting Cases on NewEgg by "Free Shipping" cause some of the bad boys cost almost as much to ship.