Netflix Officially Petitions Against Comcast, TWC Merger

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These companies (esp. Comcast) are already acting as monopolies in their service areas. Even in cities that have 2 or more providers available, the territorial division reminds one of the gang-controlled streets in the past, careful not to step on other toes.
Not only this merger should not happen, but major monopolistic companies should be divided.
 
Welcome to the Southeast. Charter or AT&T. Both have; poor customer support like every other major corporate ISP, pain in the neck throttling, and overall gimmicky marketing strategies.

Now please pick your poison. Instead of cash or credit it's Cable or DSL and instead of paper or plastic it's now Charter or AT&T. Welcome to America everyone. Enjoy your sub par internet service.
 
Not only this merger should not happen, but major monopolistic companies should be divided.
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That makes no difference when individual baby-Bells stay within their respective territories.

Infrastructure is a natural monopoly: any given market can only support two, maybe three economically viable providers. With each provider only raking in 33-50% of possible revenues within an area but each having to eat nearly 100% of the costs regardless of market share, having two physical infrastructures to choose from more than doubles costs.

If you want to drastically lower costs while improving service quality, you need to aim for a fully converged utility model where all service providers go over a shared infrastructure to eliminate massive cost duplication in boilerplate access stuff. Many countries with affordable high-speed broadband use some form of co-owned infrastructure to minimize unnecessary duplication.
 
Good for Netflix. Someone has to stand up for the people, even if Netflix has its own interests in this merger. Comcast blackmailed Netflix with network throttling, and now Netflix is fighting back. Plain and simple.
 
I don't understand how it is OK that Netflix has to pay an ISP to "fix" already established connections that are already being payed for on both sides(Netflix on the upload side and subscribers on the download side). How is that TWC and Comcast subscribers are not fighting this fight? Understandably not all of that base are also Netflix subscribers but those who are should be blasting their elected representatives and the FCC.
 
Good for Netflix. Someone has to stand up for the people, even if Netflix has its own interests in this merger. Comcast blackmailed Netflix with network throttling, and now Netflix is fighting back. Plain and simple.
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That's actually an out and out lie. Comcast is the only ISP operating under the old net neutrality rules due to it's buyout of NBC (the one merger that should have been disallowed) and is monitored by it. That means they did not throttle Netflix.

Netflix has in just a few years gone from a DVD mail service to being responsible for a full third of all internet traffic during prime hours. It's the congestion they caused that have resulted in the slowdown because the peering arrangements can not keep up. Additionally, Netflix isn't being "blackmailed", because they are not paying extra, they merely shifted who they paid to have their content delivered to the ISP from the tier 1 providers. Many also believe this has saved Netflix money and they also can get something from being directly connected to the ISP that they could not get otherwise, a quality of service agreement.
 
I don't understand how it is OK that Netflix has to pay an ISP to "fix" already established connections that are already being payed for on both sides(Netflix on the upload side and subscribers on the download side). How is that TWC and Comcast subscribers are not fighting this fight? Understandably not all of that base are also Netflix subscribers but those who are should be blasting their elected representatives and the FCC.
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Why would it be fought? No costs have gone up for the consumer and costs did not go up for Netflix. They are not paying extra for these interconnect deals, they merely changed who they were paying. In fact, it's likely they are paying less and can get a quality of service agreement because of that direct connection that they can not get with an ISP they don't have a direct connection with, which means a guaranteed level of service for those consumers on those ISP's that have the direct connection.
 
These Big 3 companies have had monopoly powers in their districts for a long time. Congress' 2003 sanctification only gave them more. Netflix shouldn't be the one complaining - it should be all consumers. Of course, that doesn't matter to Congress - they get their kickbac - er, "rebates" and "campaign contributions" anyway.
 
So in the public's best interest, there are two decisions that the FCC needs to make: stop the merger, and reclassify broadband access as a telecommunications service. What we're curious about is why it is taking so long for this conclusion to be reached if the majority of the population is wondering why any thought has to be put into this decision at all.
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Niels, the reason the FCC is taking so long to come to such a conclusion is the simple fact that it's against the FCC Chairman's best interest to come to such conclusion. What is good for the cable companies and the cable ISPs, is good for the FCC Chairman. What's good for the consumer, is bad for the FCC Chairman. In the US, it's no longer about doing the right thing, just because it's the right thing to do. It's all about money and unfortunately, he who has the most, wins when it comes to dealing with the government.
 
So in the public's best interest, there are two decisions that the FCC needs to make: stop the merger, and reclassify broadband access as a telecommunications service. What we're curious about is why it is taking so long for this conclusion to be reached if the majority of the population is wondering why any thought has to be put into this decision at all.
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Niels, the reason the FCC is taking so long to come to such a conclusion is the simple fact that it's against the FCC Chairman's best interest to come to such conclusion. What is good for the cable companies and the cable ISPs, is good for the FCC Chairman. What's good for the consumer, is bad for the FCC Chairman. In the US, it's no longer about doing the right thing, just because it's the right thing to do. It's all about money and unfortunately, he who has the most, wins when it comes to dealing with the government.
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I completely agree that monopolies are a bad thing, however, Comcast buying TWC isn't going to be bad for a single person. TWC wants out. If the merger is not allowed, TWC isn't magically going to decide they want to be in business, they will just let their operations stagnate to the detriment of the consumers they serve until they find a buyer.

There is not one customer that Comcast and TWC has in common. No one can switch from one to the other because they exist in completely different markets. In fact Comcast won't even be able to assume all of TWC customer base because it would go over the 30% cap cable companies have. Some of TWC's areas will go to Charter instead. This also means Comcast can never grow again as they will be at that cap.

The simple truth is, this merger just doesn't matter because local governments never allowed true cable competition to begin with in the late 70's, early 80's when cable was growing. The real merger that should never have been allowed to happen was Comcast's purchase of NBC as that made a content carrier be a content creator as well which put them in a serious conflict of interest.
 


How can you blame Netflix for causing the congestion? They provide a service. The consumers are causing the congestion by using the service and I pay my ISP for that access.

You've mentioned that they gain QoS under this deal. QoS can mean so many things, what do you mean by that? What are they now getting that that they weren't getting and more importantly, how is that justified? Who has Netflix circumvented in the new closed door deals and how?
 
WildKit, since 2003, it's not just the "local companies" that denied true competition for broadband - it's the 2003 Congressional laws. Not just local, but they federally mandated the anti-competitive laws.

We deal with clients of all of the Big 3 - AT&T (Dallas), ComCast (Philly) and TWC (NYC, other parts of Texas) and sadly, I've had better experiences with TWC and the worst experiences are with ComCast. By far.

Having them - the worst service provider - swallow up the best - it's like HP taking over the superior Compaq Engineering. Gag.

But I have no sympathies for any of these Big 3. I only cheer for the small companies, and conversely, Google Fibre and Verizon FIOS - anything to bring true competition. Or is that true collusion?
 
the real problem, is, at the end of the day, the ignorant consumers that are barely tech-savy enough to understand they need high-speed data to use netflix, will still blame netflix, because, the consumer will say[and i quote] "I Have a 50MBps Cable line I pay $90/mo. for why don't your servers let me get content at full speed" beetching ad infinum.

The most solid evidence that this is actually not Netflix fault is that they clearly have infrastructure within their servers and LANs to support their content delivery and updating to themselves. Outward of that, Companies like AT&T "swear" they don't throttle Netflix yet, when Netflix PAYS their ransom for "priority" or "fastlane" access... bandwidth availability MAGICALLY increases practically overnight. which also tells you these ISPs have tons of bandwith at the Interconnect and NOC levels and they're just waiting for the Magically correct amount of money being shoved in their face to pull the cork on it. the US is supposed to have masterminded and originally built the backbone of the net yet we're at minimum a 2nd tier country when it comes to bandwidth:cost ratios. If you think that TWC + Comcast does NOT equal a monopoly you need to get your head out of your rear for a change and understand what just because they're not in the same market doesn't mean they don't want those subscribers.
 
Good for Netflix. Someone has to stand up for the people, even if Netflix has its own interests in this merger. Comcast blackmailed Netflix with network throttling, and now Netflix is fighting back. Plain and simple.
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That's actually an out and out lie. Comcast is the only ISP operating under the old net neutrality rules due to it's buyout of NBC (the one merger that should have been disallowed) and is monitored by it. That means they did not throttle Netflix.

Netflix has in just a few years gone from a DVD mail service to being responsible for a full third of all internet traffic during prime hours. It's the congestion they caused that have resulted in the slowdown because the peering arrangements can not keep up. Additionally, Netflix isn't being "blackmailed", because they are not paying extra, they merely shifted who they paid to have their content delivered to the ISP from the tier 1 providers. Many also believe this has saved Netflix money and they also can get something from being directly connected to the ISP that they could not get otherwise, a quality of service agreement.
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The service is being paid for, unless you're suggesting TMC and Comcast are non-profit companies and set rates so low as to be unsustainable? Use their profits to expand their network. ISP's has their high profit margins and will not spend capital to give more to customers than minimally acceptable.
 


How can you blame Netflix for causing the congestion? They provide a service. The consumers are causing the congestion by using the service and I pay my ISP for that access.

You've mentioned that they gain QoS under this deal. QoS can mean so many things, what do you mean by that? What are they now getting that that they weren't getting and more importantly, how is that justified? Who has Netflix circumvented in the new closed door deals and how?
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It may not be Netflix's "fault" per se, however, they don't want to accept any responsibility for the popularity of their service. They want their data carried at no extra charge to them because they are not well off financially. Analysts have already shown how their stock is overvalued and they are already going to have to increase their price because the cost of the content is greater than what they bring in off sub fees.

And yes, you pay your ISP for a level of service, but by saying that you rather show your ignorance about the fact that data from providers runs over SEVERAL networks. When you have a service such as Netflix that is responsible for a full third of internet traffic when just a few years ago they had ZERO internet traffic, that means in a short amount of time their service has added tremendously to the amount of data being accessed at any one time. This is overloading the tier 1 providers such as Cogent and Level 3. Also because only 1 company is responsible for this traffic and that one company, Netflix, isn't in the best of shape financially, it would not be the most intelligent thing for networks to spend hundred of millions, if not billions, in network upgrades in a short amount of time just to benefit Netflix. That's what makes these interconnect deals so good for everyone.

What these interconnect deals mean is that Netflix takes the money they were paying the tier 1's such as Cogent and Level 3 and paying Comcast and AT&T and TWC and Verizon to directly hook up to their data centers. This bypasses the point of congestion that was causing the bad service to begin with and allows it to give you the speeds you pay for. Think of it as a highway bypass. People who are against these deals are essentially saying that they want every network to spend tons of money to upgrade their service just for Netflix's benefit.

And the QoS can be done because by having the ISP directly connected means Netflix can demand that their service be provided to their customers on those ISPs meet a certain level. Say for example that can demand from Comcast that all their 1080p programming be given the bandwidth to all of the Netflix customers on Comcast to be received at that resolution without buffering and such. Netflix can not get this from ISP's they don't have interconnect deals with because an ISP that doesn't have an interconnect deal can not guarantee in what condition that data from Netflix will arrive on the ISP's network in since it has to go over several other networks before it reaches the ISP. Now do you understand?
 
the real problem, is, at the end of the day, the ignorant consumers that are barely tech-savy enough to understand they need high-speed data to use netflix, will still blame netflix, because, the consumer will say[and i quote] "I Have a 50MBps Cable line I pay $90/mo. for why don't your servers let me get content at full speed" beetching ad infinum.

The most solid evidence that this is actually not Netflix fault is that they clearly have infrastructure within their servers and LANs to support their content delivery and updating to themselves. Outward of that, Companies like AT&T "swear" they don't throttle Netflix yet, when Netflix PAYS their ransom for "priority" or "fastlane" access... bandwidth availability MAGICALLY increases practically overnight. which also tells you these ISPs have tons of bandwith at the Interconnect and NOC levels and they're just waiting for the Magically correct amount of money being shoved in their face to pull the cork on it. the US is supposed to have masterminded and originally built the backbone of the net yet we're at minimum a 2nd tier country when it comes to bandwidth:cost ratios. If you think that TWC + Comcast does NOT equal a monopoly you need to get your head out of your rear for a change and understand what just because they're not in the same market doesn't mean they don't want those subscribers.
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It doesn't magically increase overnight. You appear to be one of the ignorant you speak off. When Netflix goes to AT&T and pays them the money they had been paying Cogent of Level 3, AT&T directly connects to Netflix's data centers. This bypasses the bottlenecks that Netflix experiences because of all the traffic they serve out that congests the tier 1 networks.

And for all of Comcast's faults, the simple fact is is that as a result of their merger with NBC they are under all net neutrality rules and are monitored for any throttling. Their agreement with the FCC was outside of the scope of the Supreme Court ruling and is still in force till 2018. If they were actively throttling Netflix, it would be known and they would be in serious trouble.

Your problem is you talk about how good Netflix's network is and how good the ISP's network is, and your right. That is why these interconnect deals fix the problems (except with Verizon as there does seem to be some active throttling go on with Verizon of Netflix). With these interconnect deals Netflix's network is hooked up directly to the ISP's thereby bypassing what was causing the problem. What you don't seem to realize, is when Netflix's data is sent out to an ISP that they don't have an interconnect deal with, that data leaves Netflix's network and travels over several others before getting to the ISP. It is in that "middle" area, typically the tier 1 providers, where the congestion happens. It gets to the ISP in a congested state already and it doesn't matter how good your network is, if the data is coming in slowly to begin with you can't improve it.

And yes, TWC and Comcast are monopolies in their own areas already due to the fact that government made them such. However once this buyout is complete, Comcast can NEVER grow again as they will be at the 30% cap. And for all this monopoly talk, I have never seen one person even offer one example of something specific that would negatively happen with Comcast buying out TWC.
 
Good for Netflix. Someone has to stand up for the people, even if Netflix has its own interests in this merger. Comcast blackmailed Netflix with network throttling, and now Netflix is fighting back. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...

That's actually an out and out lie. Comcast is the only ISP operating under the old net neutrality rules due to it's buyout of NBC (the one merger that should have been disallowed) and is monitored by it. That means they did not throttle Netflix.

Netflix has in just a few years gone from a DVD mail service to being responsible for a full third of all internet traffic during prime hours. It's the congestion they caused that have resulted in the slowdown because the peering arrangements can not keep up. Additionally, Netflix isn't being "blackmailed", because they are not paying extra, they merely shifted who they paid to have their content delivered to the ISP from the tier 1 providers. Many also believe this has saved Netflix money and they also can get something from being directly connected to the ISP that they could not get otherwise, a quality of service agreement.
Click to expand...

The service is being paid for, unless you're suggesting TMC and Comcast are non-profit companies and set rates so low as to be unsustainable? Use their profits to expand their network. ISP's has their high profit margins and will not spend capital to give more to customers than minimally acceptable.
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Let me ask you this. If you spend the money and buy a brand new AC router which can deliver content wirelessly faster to your wireless devices than an old B router, will that make content that is only delivered to you at 20Mbps come to your router any faster? No, but that is essentially what you are saying that the ISP's can do.

The problem with Netflix isn't at the ISP level. The congestion is happening BEFORE it get's to the ISP's network along the tier 1 providers networks. Nothing Comcast or AT&T or any other ISP can do can fix this. This is why these interconnect deals actually are the fix you are demanding. Netflix is NOT paying any more money than they did before these deals and in fact should very well be SAVING money. All they are doing is changing WHO they are paying. The ISP's are directly connecting to the Netflix data center so it bypasses the areas that cause the problem that is actually out of both Netflix and the ISP's control.


 
I find it ironic. Wasn't too long ago that I'm my neck of the woods Comcast petitioned to have Google fiber optic gigabit Internet put on hold, and also had at&t shot down. While I do enjoy the benefits of the fastest Internet in my area, what I don't enjoy is lack of choice, and choosing between 50Gb cable and 16Gb DSL is not what I mean by choice, either.
 
The problem with Netflix isn't at the ISP level.
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Actualy it is with the ISP. It's been proven again and again that using VPN's or outer means to hide the source of your web traffic from the ISP improves performance of netflix and other services.
ISP's are throttling traffic because they don't want to use there money to buy more tear one bandwidth. They also want people to use there service, that's why they reject the free netflix cache boxes the would improve performance with out buying more bandwidth from a tear one provider.
 
The problem with Netflix isn't at the ISP level.
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Actualy it is with the ISP. It's been proven again and again that using VPN's or outer means to hide the source of your web traffic from the ISP improves performance of netflix and other services.
ISP's are throttling traffic because they don't want to use there money to buy more tear one bandwidth. They also want people to use there service, that's why they reject the free netflix cache boxes the would improve performance with out buying more bandwidth from a tear one provider.
 
Another comment about TimeWarner "not wanting to be in the ISP business", fine. Quit. Shut down. If Mr. Time-Warner is bored with it, just get out. Go fishing.

I'd love to see all the Time-Warner monopolized-territory be put on the open market rather than gift-wrapped to the worst-service-ever ComCast.
 
I find it ironic. Wasn't too long ago that I'm my neck of the woods Comcast petitioned to have Google fiber optic gigabit Internet put on hold, and also had at&t shot down. While I do enjoy the benefits of the fastest Internet in my area, what I don't enjoy is lack of choice, and choosing between 50Gb cable and 16Gb DSL is not what I mean by choice, either.
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If my choices were between 16Gb and 50Gb I wouldn't complain at all. I couldn't imagine needing that fast of a connection, for a couple decades at least. Even my SSD couldn't keep up with either. Only the fastest PCI-e SSD could catch up to 16Gb.

My choice is up to 300Mb cable or 6Mb DSL in my area. Which is basically no choice. If people in the area already have all the 6Mb slots there might only be 3Mb or 1.5Mb DSL available.

For some reason U-Verse is all around me and AT&T ran fiber all over my neighborhood a few years ago. But they insist I cannot get U-Verse anywhere in my area. There was even an AT&T crew in front of my house running cable and they told me they were installing fiber optics. There were signs all over stating the neighborhood was being upgraded. Yet they still say there is nothing in my area.
 

"Hiding" the traffic likely has absolutely nothing to do with it: using VPN or other "obfuscation method" simply causes traffic to flow through a different route that happens to go through different peering points from than those Netflix traffic would normally go through.

AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, etc. have absolutely no control over how traffic gets routed from Netflix to the ISPs and Verizon has said they have tons of under-used capacity with other peers than L3/Cogent. If Netflix wanted to improve capacity between themselves and ISPs without signing direct interconnect deals with ISPs, they could simply try to peer with the ISPs' other peers instead of trying to force all their traffic out through L3/Cogent.

Why isn't Netflix doing that? Likely because the major ISPs' other peers charge more than L3/Cogent or even the ISPs themselves for interconnects.

Why aren't large ISPs interested in taking L3 up on their offer to increase capacity for "free?" Probably because the ISPs already have more capacity with L3 at the problematic peering points than they are comfortable trusting a single peer with and they do not want to increase their associated costs and risks almost entirely for Netflix's benefit.
 
Veloc, your problem is shared in most of North America, too. I wish all of rural America could access the fibre networks that were laid to every municipality, school district, law enforcement office and hospital that received a federal dollar - that network was laid in the late 1990s.
 
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