New Steam Agreement Now Says You Can't Sue Valve

[therabiddeer]

How is it possible to make a change like this for people that already own dozens of games under the steam service? I bought them before this change, and now I am affected by it and can no longer use them if I dont agree?

 

[Guest]

@Sacre This is fine, American class action law suits are an absolute joke! Don't lie to support your argument. If you don't agree with the EULA you CAN return your game for a refund. Don't attempt to spin miniscule things into a big deal just because you enjoy having a whinge!

 

[Guest]

@s3anister "Are we ever going to see the U.S. government step in on this? It's ridiculous that a corporation is able to do this. Take an auto manufacturer for example, if the car you drive is defective (Firestone and Ford, anyone?) you can sue them to hopefully fix the problem if there is one. What good is it to have a legal system if you can't use it to the fullest extent?"

What BS are you talking about! Step in on what? Valve is not removing anyone's basic rights. You can still get your money if they don't deliver what is advertised or you are mislead. You then go on to say if a car is defective, it's still the same here. If the game is 'defective' then of course you can get a refund. Your spinning crap! Here in normal land we don't just go around suing everyone as someone already pointed out above. Learn to move on, no one is FORCING you to agree to these new terms. If you don't like something, don't use it. Sounds so simple to us but we sometimes forget you yanks lack common sense.

 

[therabiddeer]

[citation][nom]No Problem[/nom]@Sacre This is fine, American class action law suits are an absolute joke! Don't lie to support your argument. If you don't agree with the EULA you CAN return your game for a refund. Don't attempt to spin miniscule things into a big deal just because you enjoy having a whinge![/citation]
How can I get a refund for my steam library? I wouldnt mind getting a refund on my $1000 worth of games.

 

[Vorador2]

You know, EULAs don't work that way. If they did, every company would put that on their own EULA and then do whatever they want.

 

[jasonkaler]

They make it sound like they're doing the user a favor "..class actions don’t provide any real benefit to users..."

We're helping you by removing your legal rights.

 

[belardo]

Can we submit an EULA to the software companies? "We will only pay you this much for your software", etc

 

[Guest]

never bought from steam.. never will.

boycott the stuff!!

 

[kristoffe]

steam is pretty awesome, I've never had a problem with them with 60+ games of a year release spread maybe 10~15 years, so even compatibility isn't an issue.

 

[Parrdacc]

It is just wording that usually never holds up in court. They actually should ban the use of any contract or user agreement that specifically states that you cannot sue or take legal action against them if you choose to use their product. It is their service and as such Steam and everyone else should be held accountable if their service does not work, harm, or engages in any unfair practice. Gee just like this.

 

[chomlee]

First off, I can only think of one reason why you would have any real reason to sue a company like this and that would be if your personal information/credit card information was stolen and as a result your identity was stolen or you had to incur expenses to protect your identity as a result. This is probably the main reason why they did this. If they had a cyber attack and all their data was stolen, a class action lawsuite could wipe them out and they would be out of business. Unfortunately they are entirely correct when they say that the class action lawyers are really the only ones that benefit. every one else will get a free game or maybe $50 but the lawyers would walk away with tens of millions.

You dont sue someone because the game wasn't what you expected, or because customer service was poor. If you don't like the games or CS then don't buy from them anymore.

 

[Guest]

if they want that stance then how about adding to it that THEY cant sue US for ANYTHING.
just to be fair here.... cause i want to open my consoles, which i paid for.... but dont want to be sued like Sony did.

if they want immunity, then we want immunity...

 

[teh_chem]

Not sure how I feel about this. I have more respect for Steam/valve than most other tech companies. I agree with the PR statement from Steam that a lot of verdicts in class-action lawsuits rarely address actual problems within the system, and such lawsuits are not designed to arrive at an outcome that appropriately addresses/compensates proportionately (not to mention that monetary settlements usually go to the lawyer, the individual customer that initiated the suit, and then some fund where like 1% goes to all the other plaintiffs and the remaining 99% to some court-ordered punishment fund).

But at the same time, how can singe (and often times not wealthy) individuals have an even legal playing field if they are not allowed one method to have as-strong of a legal stance (via class-action and the litigious benefits it provides)

[citation][nom]Vorador2[/nom]You know, EULAs don't work that way. If they did, every company would put that on their own EULA and then do whatever they want.[/citation]
Well, while EULAs can't supersede law, laws can (and usually do) uphold EULAs as enforceable contracts.

 

[belardo]

I'm okay with Steam. I lost my discs and key for some games, but it was attached to me email account... so now I have my games back.

 

[Guest]

@TheRabidDeer
"How can I get a refund for my steam library? I wouldnt mind getting a refund on my $1000 worth of games."

There are laws in place that allow you to return your game in the case that you reject the terms of the EULA. Of course this must be done in a timely manner and NOT after you AGREE and/or PLAY the game/s in question. You can't return a game for the reason of the EULA if you agree to it first. I don't see how people think that is right. If you have not accepted the EULA's to your $1000 worth of games and have purchased them all recently, then you can get your refund. If you have accepted there EULA's and played them as I suspect then what a dumb question on your behalf! I have used steam since very early on and have purchased many, many games through them. Steam offers exceptional quality and prices plus easy ui with auto updates and all the other features. It's not for everyone, but unlike other services is not forced upon anyone.

 

[hate machine]

So many commentators who did not read the article. Well I cannot blame them with such a shitty title that does not even align with the actual article. Tom's Hardware is slowly turning into Engadget with click bait troll "news" that is days old.

 

[Guest]

The benefit of a class action suit is not necessarily for the users to profit, but for the company to be punished. If I sue a factory for contaminating the drinking water and win $100,000, this is nothing more than a slap on the wrist. They will continue to do business as usual and consider my settlement the cost of doing business. But if I get my entire town to sue them for $350,000,000, then maybe they will wake up and change their attitude. This is the power of class action.

Valve could intentionally be violating their own terms and selling our credit card numbers to shady companies subscribing us to magazine subscriptions without our permission. If they have determined the risk/loss value to be less than the value of selling our info, guess which one they will choose? Class action makes sure the penalty is always severe. It's no different than if stealing a car got you 2 hours in prison, or robbing a bank a $500 fine. These punishments are too low for us, just as individual lawsuits are too low for them.

 

[Guest]

about this small claims court stuff, you do realize that the maximum you can sue for is something like $5000, and would require you to do so in their district. So unless you feel like flying out to NC or wherever they are located, good luck with that. And you must fist enter into arbitration, which is basically sitting down in a room with their lawyers trying to "work things out", which is basically going to be them stalling, showing up late, telling you to fuck off, until you have exhausted your limited resources. It's all designed to make things as cumbersome and unaffordable as possible. You need class action status to make a change with billion dollar companies.

 

[leongrado]

Can they do this?

 

[JamesSneed]

Can they do this?

Yes they can put whatever they want in the EULA but that doesn't mean its legally binding in any way.

 

[JamesSneed]

^ This. It's only that you can't join a class action suit against them. Keeps the mass tort boys from ambulance chasing against big companies.

As the way of the reporter goes and we are only left with bloggers only concerned with generating "hits", misleading, hysterical stories like this will become more and more of the norm. We are a paranoid lot and they know what buttons to push.

Except it actually doesn't prevent a class action lawsuit. No US based court would ever toss a class action case out because a EULA had this verbiage. So its rather pointless wording. To be honest it may even encourage a class action suite just to set precedence.

 

[teh_chem]

[citation][nom]jamessneed[/nom]Except it actually doesn't prevent a class action lawsuit. No US based court would ever toss a class action case out because a EULA had this verbiage. So its rather pointless wording. To be honest it may even encourage a class action suite just to set precedence.[/citation]
It does--the supreme court (both state and federal) have already upheld non-class-action clauses. Check out AT&T v. Concepcion: http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/california-court-upholds-class-action-an-34230/ AT&T's non-class-action clause (or rather, individual arbitration clause) was upheld when a customer tried to file a class-action suit (without going through individual arbitration). They were denied the permission to file a class-action suit.

To be clear, these clauses do not prohibit a class-action suit from ever being brought against a company, and they do not mean that someone cannot file a lawsuit against them. These clauses pretty much state that the customer/plaintiff first go through independent arbitration (or small-claims court if appropriate). Of course the implication of this is that large and powerful companies can almost indefinitely sustain prolonging/delaying this process, and that usually the "caliber" of lawyers they use are generally higher than what someone who is suing the company for something like $1000 (for whatever reason--just a value I made up as an example) would use--if they used a lawyer at all.

It absolutely tips the scales in favor of the larger corporations, but at the same time, I don't know if I always agree with the "spirit" of a class-action lawsuit, or the resulting magnitude of a verdict.

 

[Guest]

Suddenly those bargain prices weren't that great huh?...
keep buying from the most spyware-adware ridden service.

 

[teh_chem]

[citation][nom]spywareforthelife[/nom]Suddenly those bargain prices weren't that great huh?...keep buying from the most spyware-adware ridden service.[/citation]
Because Steam is the first company to insert an arbitration clause in the EULA, right? Because Sony and EA and tons of other companies haven't been doing this already, right? Oh wait...

 

[therabiddeer]

[citation][nom]NoProblem[/nom]@TheRabidDeer"How can I get a refund for my steam library? I wouldnt mind getting a refund on my $1000 worth of games."There are laws in place that allow you to return your game in the case that you reject the terms of the EULA. Of course this must be done in a timely manner and NOT after you AGREE and/or PLAY the game/s in question. You can't return a game for the reason of the EULA if you agree to it first. I don't see how people think that is right. If you have not accepted the EULA's to your $1000 worth of games and have purchased them all recently, then you can get your refund. If you have accepted there EULA's and played them as I suspect then what a dumb question on your behalf! I have used steam since very early on and have purchased many, many games through them. Steam offers exceptional quality and prices plus easy ui with auto updates and all the other features. It's not for everyone, but unlike other services is not forced upon anyone.[/citation]
I havent played a lot of them yet, actually. But that doesnt matter because of the games that I DID play, the terms werent the same as the new terms. Why do I need to agree to new terms to use something that I already purchased? I could understand it applying to new purchases, but not ones that already happened.