Question New to AIO - Instantly regretting the purchase. Advice?

[Webmetalreese]

I thought I'd dabble in water cooling as it's all the rage. So with my newest build I went out and bought a Cooler Master ML240.

Board has headers for AIO/CPU/Chassis 1,2,3. I mounted the radiator on the top with the fans blowing out (Exhaust) and then I mounted 7 internal case fans that run on a separate controller (high/low) 3 in the front sucking in, 3 on the bottom sucking in, 1 at the back blowing out and the 2 connected to the radiator sucking out.

First off, I'm assuming it's working since nothing has caught on fire. I'm running a ryzen 7 2700x and just leaving it at stock temps idle from 35-50 - but they bounce around, I'm not getting consistency - just letting it idle it will go from 31 - 48 and then back down to 34 - then up to 55!~

Gaming it stays around 40, but stressing it using cinebench and the ryzen master stress - tonight I was reading temps of 70 which is by far the highest I've gotten on any cpu which makes me wonder - is my AIO performing? I want to open it up and throw the wraith cooler on there just to see but I'm sure that the wraith is going to perform less than what I have now, correct?

Is there something I'm missing? I tried an OC but can't get the ryzen past .08% - using the AI SUITE advanced tuning will only give me that number before shutting down and then heading into fan control.

I thought about doing it by hand (the oc) but I also have OC RAM and I also want to OC the GPU but everytime I OC one of those the whole system shuts down, even a basic userbenchmark run.

Any ideas? It's pretty cool where I live currently 24 and EVERY other piece of equipment in my rig stays nice and cool - even stressing the VEGA 56 it won't break 30.

I'm not sure if this is how AIOs work or are there ways for me to check? I've repasted and reseated 2 times but the effects are the same.

 

[korv]

Your radiato could get a lot of the hot air from yout gpu

 

[mortemas]

Assuming all your wiring is correct and the cpu fans + pump increase with cpu load, then I agree with Korv. You have 6 intakes and 3 exhausts, and most of the exhaust, which is already heated by the gpu and other components, is likely passing through the radiator (2 fans, vs 1 on the back). If you can possibly mount the rad on the front intakes then it could improve cpu temp without affecting gpu much because you have 3 bottom fans bringing cool air upward toward the gpu. So, 3 intakes on bottom, front rad with 2 intakes, 1 more front intake, 2 exhaust on top, 1 exhaust on back.

BTW, which PC case do you have?

 

[ElectrO_90]

70'C is fine for a 2700x since the 2700X really can suck a lot of power

your AIO isn't the best choice, I guess you got it because of the RGB factor
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/cooler_master_masterliquid_ml240r_rgb_review,12.html

You can see on an OC machine that your temps are fine. If you understand how the i7 -4 works, when oc'd and over voltage, you will understand that your cooler is working well within it's limits.

 

[Webmetalreese]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the case I own, unless you live in Taiwan.
The Sades RA

I might just gut it and throw it into my older case because there seems to be more room at the top for a rad and it's just overall a bigger case:
Tutanhkahmen
Both of the tempered glass sheets shattered when i was replacing the motherboard, so I immediately went to buy another one, as it turns out I know a buddy who created some replacement sheets using acrylic.

Would throwing the rad in the front with the fans on the outside of the rad pulling air in technically be pulling all of that heat into the case? I've heard of Push/Pull but I don't have the ability to throw 4 fans on the rad - there is simply no room.

It really bothers me that everything else is nice and cool, but this CPU can't get below 35 and likes to operate within 50-70 which in my mind is danger zone.

I took a lot of chances this time around - high end gpu high end cpu high end ram top of the line SSD hell I even have an M.2 drive. You are right, I went with that AIO because of the stupid RGB crap (never again) I can't even get it to sync with Aura (when its working) and actually one of my RGB headers took a crap so the color is off on a couple strips,

Building for quite some time and have never had issues (then again, I always shoot for last years best) but they way this AIO is acting - is it normal to spike like that? At least with a fan you can see the temp rising and the fan gets stronger, but with this - its like completely quiet. I cannot adjust the fan curves because when I do its just up and down up and down regarding speed because of the wild fluctuations.

I know what I have to do I think - take the rad off the top and put it on the front but would I want those fans to be pushing/sucking air in? That doesn't make sense to me. If I don't see any difference I'll try the wraith and (doubtful) if its better I'll just run that.

The only other alternative I have is to gut what I got into a bigger tower with more breathing room.

 

[ElectrO_90]

his CPU can't get below 35 and likes to operate within 50-70 which in my mind is danger zone.

Just because you think its danger zone in your mind, doesn't make it so.
And it is NOT in danger zone. I think AMD know a bit more about what is in the Danger zone than you do.

 

[Gmoney06ss]

50-70 is a relatively acceptable temp. I'm more curious how you keep a Vega 56 at 30c under stress. Considering that's such a warm running card, what cooler design do you have?

Mounting the rad on the front should lower temps a bit. I run my rad up front and have never noticed any never heating affects on any other components. Definitely worth trying.

 

[EndEffeKt_24]

50-70 is a relatively acceptable temp. I'm more curious how you keep a Vega 56 at 30c under stress. Considering that's such a warm running card, what cooler design do you have?

Mounting the rad on the front should lower temps a bit. I run my rad up front and have never noticed any never heating affects on any other components. Definitely worth trying.

Yeah a Vega 56 @ 30c under stress sounds too good to be true. Even my gtx 1070 undervolted with a dual cooler runs at 68c under heavy gaming load.

What software are you using to read out your temps? I

 

[jamieinthejar]

The Cooler Master ML240 is classed a little bit of a budget AIO, but it should still do the job. Under 100% load, 50-70c isn't outrageous and there are many other factors that could play into your CPU getting that much heat. I have a fully water cooled rig and I've seen 65c occasionally when it's pushing 80-100% for a period of time; not to mention if you live in Taiwan then generically speaking your temperatures would be slightly higher than others further away from the equator (hotter) 👼

Before the AIO, what temperatures was your CPU running at?

30c on a Vega 56 does sound incredibly good, I'd be curious what your setup is and perhaps if the heat is being extracted so well off the card that it's heating up the components above (CPU).

Do you have a picture of your setup?

 

[Webmetalreese]

The Cooler Master ML240 is classed a little bit of a budget AIO, but it should still do the job. Under 100% load, 50-70c isn't outrageous and there are many other factors that could play into your CPU getting that much heat. I have a fully water cooled rig and I've seen 65c occasionally when it's pushing 80-100% for a period of time; not to mention if you live in Taiwan then generically speaking your temperatures would be slightly higher than others further away from the equator (hotter) 👼

Before the AIO, what temperatures was your CPU running at?

30c on a Vega 56 does sound incredibly good, I'd be curious what your setup is and perhaps if the heat is being extracted so well off the card that it's heating up the components above (CPU).

Do you have a picture of your setup?

 

[Webmetalreese]

Yeah I already bought another aio _ the captain 240 and actually bought another board the strix x470 f, but I haven't had time to install them yet. I think I misspoke when saying the vega underload stayed at 30, i meant idle. Running VR games it usually goes up to around 48- Under load with this past time spy run had it maxed at 57, but the cpu topped out at 65.
Sades Ra Pics
I just snapped some quick shots - I didn't have time to get the glass off. It doesn't matter though as I plan on gutting it this week once I get my other case up and running again.
I definitely plan on mounting the Rad on the front and I'll have 3 fans sucking air in and the two mounted on the rad also doing the same (push/pull correct?)
I'm also going to use the two fans from the other Aio mounted on the top sucking air out as well as one exhaust fan in the back sucking air out.
Then I'm not totally sure. I'm thinking of leaving the PSU with the fan pointed up and have it suck air out as well, then the one beside it sucking air from the bottom as I have room for another 120 to sit in the psu shroud right in front of the PSU pulling air in from the bottom and then the one beside it also sucking air in from the bottom so to cool the drives I have there.

 

[rubix_1011]

Also, just because you bought a 'liquid cooler' doesn't mean it is a good liquid cooler. I've tested both the ML240 and the ML240R, the R being the better of them, but still its an AIO that is built in a mass-manufacturing process with components supplied by the lowest bidder.

There are reasons why AIOs cost as much as a single CPU or GPU block or a single pump or radiator used by custom watercooling.

 

[Webmetalreese]

Also, just because you bought a 'liquid cooler' doesn't mean it is a good liquid cooler. I've tested both the ML240 and the ML240R, the R being the better of them, but still its an AIO that is built in a mass-manufacturing process with components supplied by the lowest bidder.

There are reasons why AIOs cost as much as a single CPU or GPU block or a single pump or radiator used by custom watercooling.

Mmm yes I've looked at custom loops and the costs of the blocks have been as much as the entire system. I was under the impression though that even a basic aio would outperform an air cooler, but it seems I was mistaken in that regard， which is why I used the term dabble. I heard over the years that water cooling was superior to heatsink fans, but though what I have is superior to say a stock cooler, an Aio just seems to move heat in a different manner and not cool it faster or better. Temperature wise it's not much different than say a cooler master hyper 212.
So while trying it out I have not been impressed, but I did purchase a better quality aio and plan to place the radiator in a different area to see if there is a noticeable difference so well see.
Custom loops are way out of my league though.

 

[tennis2]

TL;DR sounds like the pump header is fluctuating based on CPU temp. Set it to constant 12v/100%

 

[Webmetalreese]

TL;DR sounds like the pump header is fluctuating based on CPU temp. Set it to constant 12v/100%

Yeah that was the first thing I checked. In my Bios it was set like that, but I changed it to DC and to run at 100% constantly.

I just watched a youtube video by jayztwocents(tends to ramble a bit) about aio temps and I really learned a lot about how the temperature will spike at first but then gradually go down and finally level out due to the water getting warm, etc. I think this is why I think I'm having an issue as I'm used to for example a heatsink getting hot and then immediately cooling as the fan RPMS ramp as its cooling.

Perhaps I'm not giving the AIO enough time to correctly adjust. Maybe I should just let it run for an hour and see what happens.

 

[CountMike]

Yeah that was the first thing I checked. In my Bios it was set like that, but I changed it to DC and to run at 100% constantly.

I just watched a youtube video by jayztwocents(tends to ramble a bit) about aio temps and I really learned a lot about how the temperature will spike at first but then gradually go down and finally level out due to the water getting warm, etc. I think this is why I think I'm having an issue as I'm used to for example a heatsink getting hot and then immediately cooling as the fan RPMS ramp as its cooling.

Perhaps I'm not giving the AIO enough time to correctly adjust. Maybe I should just let it run for an hour and see what happens.

Due to large mass and liquid in liquid coolers including AiOs, they are more inert than all metal air coolers, giving an impression of temperatures being "jumpy". It just takes time for heat energy to get transferred to air beyond the radiator. In addition, new processors like Ryzen have sensitive sensors to adjust XFR and core loads. If you adjust HW Info for instance for faster polling intervals, you'd see even more temperature changes. That makes average temperatures column important just as much as maximum.
Speaking ofCM coolers, my CM Nepton 140XL keeps temps at under 70c even at prolonged loads at 4.3GHz and 1.416v. CM 240 should have done even better job.
Pump @7200rpm connected to AIO_PUMP header (nonadjustable) and fans to CPU_Fan and CPU_AUX.

 

[ivictori]

From my personal experience mounting the radiator top of the case didnt show good results now i mount it behind the case where the motherboard io plate is also i use push pull configuration results were instantly noticeable 10 to 15 degree celcius drop so i have it there

 

[rubix_1011]

Mmm yes I've looked at custom loops and the costs of the blocks have been as much as the entire system. I was under the impression though that even a basic aio would outperform an air cooler, but it seems I was mistaken in that regard， which is why I used the term dabble. I heard over the years that water cooling was superior to heatsink fans, but though what I have is superior to say a stock cooler, an Aio just seems to move heat in a different manner and not cool it faster or better. Temperature wise it's not much different than say a cooler master hyper 212.
So while trying it out I have not been impressed, but I did purchase a better quality aio and plan to place the radiator in a different area to see if there is a noticeable difference so well see.
Custom loops are way out of my league though.

Right, not every air cooler performs the same, not every 'large air cooler' performs better than a 'smaller air cooler' and just because an AIO is liquid cooling, does not mean that a 120mm AIO will perform as well as a 360mm AIO. Also, it is not a given that a 240mm or 360mm AIO will always perform better than a very good air cooler. Often times, this is true, but there are outliers.

These items of confusion are what AIO manufacturers are banking on the buyer not understanding. The perception of 'liquid cooling' always outperforms any/all 'air cooling' is their hope.

 

[Webmetalreese]

Hey guys, been awhile but I'm still around and still working on my build. I just finished ripping apart my old PC case and drilling out the rivets and cutting holes with my dremel and painting it up. I took apart the PC and started the transfer only this time with a new mobo (Asus Strix X470 F Gaming and Deep Cool Captain 240 EX RGB) but as I was working on it, I came across some questions.

I got one of those Innovation Creations Graphite Cooling pads and put that on the 2700x and mounted the AIO, but I've looked everywhere and I can't find anything on if it will be better or worse for an AIO, just fan coolers. Anyone shed some light?

I mounted the radiator to the front of the case this time and am currently planning how to install my fans. I made a quick image (The stars indicate which way the air will go and the numbers are the rated CFMS. Do you think this layout is OK and is it too much positive pressure? (Total intake 526, exhaust 194)

Fan Layout

I was reading the manual for the x470 for the bios and saw TPM settings. I know they are for overclocking, but I was wondering as it says TPM II is for water cooling systems, so am I using a water cooling system now or does it mean custom loops?

 

[CountMike]

There's also this that just came to the market:
https://thermal-grizzly.com/en/products/299-carbonaut-en

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_6EJTx5PsU


As for TPU settings, yes those are some OC settings but I can achieve much better OC than that. Liquid cooling requirement for TPU is just a suggestion for better than stock cooler, doesn't really have to be liquid cooler for it to set or work. Lest of all it wold require some enormous custom liquid cooler because of relatively low OC level it can achieve.

 

[drivinfast247]

Due to large mass and liquid in liquid coolers including AiOs, they are more inert than all metal air coolers, giving an impression of temperatures being "jumpy". It just takes time for heat energy to get transferred to air beyond the radiator. In addition, new processors like Ryzen have sensitive sensors to adjust XFR and core loads. If you adjust HW Info for instance for faster polling intervals, you'd see even more temperature changes. That makes average temperatures column important just as much as maximum.
Speaking ofCM coolers, my CM Nepton 140XL keeps temps at under 70c even at prolonged loads at 4.3GHz and 1.416v. CM 240 should have done even better job.
Pump @7200rpm connected to AIO_PUMP header (nonadjustable) and fans to CPU_Fan and CPU_AUX.

I'm sending you a PM

 

[Webmetalreese]

There's also this that just came to the market:
https://thermal-grizzly.com/en/products/299-carbonaut-en

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_6EJTx5PsU


As for TPU settings, yes those are some OC settings but I can achieve much better OC than that. Liquid cooling requirement for TPU is just a suggestion for better than stock cooler, doesn't really have to be liquid cooler for it to set or work. Lest of all it wold require some enormous custom liquid cooler because of relatively low OC level it can achieve.

Yeah that looks mighty nice, but I live in Taiwan and the best paste I can get is Arctic Silver 5, unless I order from Amazon but with shipping that's a rarity. Actually, a friend of mine actually sent me one to try and I have no experience with them, but I figured it would take out user error at least as when I took off the old AIO the spread wasn't looking too good.

So TPM I don't really have to adjust, just do it manually or with RyzenMaster I assume. I will try AI Suite just for fun since I'm using the new mobo, I will finish it tonight when I get home - hoping I won't have to reinstall windows or programs but probably will have to.

Here are some pics and a short video of what I've got so far.
It's the first time I ever tried to customize a PC case before, I had to make some cuts and realized that I really suck with spray paint but hey everyone has to start somewhere.
Galvatron

 

[CountMike]

So, you are into customization too.
TPM is just somebody's idea of what some OC should look like, if you change anything in your OC, TPM is null and void.
Complete AI Suite was source of many problems for me and others, I would avoid it. If you want control of lights, just use latest Aura but be careful with it. It seems to make some changes to UEFI partition on disk which is difficult to reverse. Until I found that I RMA-ed my previous Asus Prime x370 pro motherboard thinking that light control was screwed up. It still wouldn't work under windows but when I reinstalled them (which included new UEFI partition), it started to work.

 

[SkyNetRising]

I tried an OC but can't get the ryzen past .08% - using the AI SUITE advanced tuning will only give me that number before shutting down and then heading into fan control.
I thought about doing it by hand (the oc) but I also have OC RAM and I also want to OC the GPU but everytime I OC one of those the whole system shuts down, even a basic userbenchmark run.
Any ideas?

Do you still have this issue?
Sounds like PSU problem. What model PSU are you using BTW?

 

[Webmetalreese]

Do you still have this issue?
Sounds like PSU problem. What model PSU are you using BTW?

Antec HCG850 Extreme 850W 80PLUS Gold
i don't think it's an issue, I've used Antec forever and never had any issues before. What could be some warning signs that it's an actual problem? I know there is a button on the back for hybrid mode but I've never touched it.

Well I got everything up and running. All the fans are turning and the AIO is working. Idle temps according to HWINFO on TDIE 36.5 so the graphite pad is working too.

I ran a userbench and it maxed out at 79 during the cpu test so either the pad isn't conducting fast enough or the captain AIO can't keep up or I just got a shit CPU. I actually found that Grizzly paste here in Taiwan on their version of Ebay. When it comes I'll be scrapping the pad in favor of the paste, but I;'ll keep the pad because honestly it's not that bad for normal everyday stuff as it's keeping the idle at around 40-50 ish. I haven't played any games or anything yet so I'm not sure how it will operate under load, only with the user bench. I'll try a time spy run to see if I get any better results than I had with the Cooler Master AIO.

Tried 5 Way Opt with AI Suite and again it made it to 8% then failed, probably due to the temperature maxing out I'm thinking. I've literally done pretty much all I can at this point as far as fan positioning, radiator placement push/pull config, positive/negative pressure but basically I'm getting the same results I had with the B450 F gaming board. To be completely honest I also do not care for AI suite, but I like the ability to adjust my curves instead of having to restart my system everytime to use QFan.

The benchmark Run:
UserBenchmarks: Game 117%, Desk 134%, Work 129%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X - 104.8%
GPU: AMD RX Vega 56 - 123.9%
SSD: Crucial P1 3D NVMe PCIe M.2 1TB - 260.3%
SSD: Adata Premier Pro SP900 128GB - 59.9%
SSD: Samsung 860 Evo 1TB - 123.1%
RAM: Team Group Inc. TEAMGROUP-UD4-3000 2x16GB - 86.8%
MBD: Asus ROG STRIX X470-F GAMING
It's a bit lower because I haven't adjusted the RAM yet and honestly have no idea about the Adata I might just unplug it but comparing it with my signature, the differences are pretty nominal.