Question Newly downloaded files on external hard drives are slow to copy/move

[azuree125]

Specs-

https://imgur.com/a/JAycPY7

View: https://imgur.com/a/JAycPY7

PSU- Cooler Master MWE Bronze V2 550W 230V (around 2 months - NEW)
All HDD Drives - ST1000DM010-2EP102 : 1000.2 GB (Windows drive) - Internal - (Task Manager says page file is on this drive)
WDC WD20EZAZ-00GGJB0 : 2000.3 GB - Internal
ST4000LM024-2AN17V : 4000.7 GB - External (Only USB 3 powered)
WDC WD50NDZW-11BCSS0 : 5000.9 GB - External (Only USB 3 powered)

I'm sorry I don't have any MyBookLive you mentioned.

 

[Misgar]

It is difficult and time consuming to copy files to drives where there is limited space.

I wholeheartedly agree. Mind you, I'm just as guilty of filling archive hard disks (not SSDs) with files that are not required very often. My external USB drives are probably all SMR, but I only buy CMR/PMR internal hard disks.

Please any help is appreciated.

I've just spotted the fact you're using a 3.1GHz 2-core Pentium G3240 Haswell.

I have a similarly specified 3.2GHz 2-core G3258 Haswell in one of my computers, but I've overclocked it up to 4.2GHz to improve performance. This makes it more usable for general internet browsing, but it still "bogs down" when tasked with any serious disk activity, even on an SSD, let alone on a slower internal hard disk.

CPU speed can affect file transfers, especially on slow processors with a limited number of cores. Not only are your hard disks nearly full (and probably heavily fragmented) but your CPU will also be overwhelmed with the task of processing disk-related reads and writes.

If any of your hard disks are SMR, they'll be slow during writes, especially when virtually full.

It might be worth checking CPU activity in Task Manager during problematic file tranfers and find out if your G3240 is hitting 100% continuously on both cores until copying finishes.

I accept all the limitations of my overclocked 4.2GHz G3258 and you will probably have to put up with slow data transfers, until you move to a significantly faster system and new (or at least fairly empty) hard disks.

 

[Ralston18]

I stand corrected: Disk 2, Drive J: is shown as "MyPassport" in Disk Management. My error - apologies.

Some other things I noted: PSU is only 550 watts - that may not be enough.

Use an independently powered USB hub to provide power to the external USB drives.

However, I believe that the overall problem is that the disks are too filled.

And, looking back, I am now wondering about RAM based on the CPU-z results.

What is the full RAM configuration?

 

[azuree125]

I stand corrected: Disk 2, Drive J: is shown as "MyPassport" in Disk Management. My error - apologies.

Some other things I noted: PSU is only 550 watts - that may not be enough.

Use an independently powered USB hub to provide power to the external USB drives.

However, I believe that the overall problem is that the disks are too filled.

And, looking back, I am now wondering about RAM based on the CPU-z results.

What is the full RAM configuration?

Its a single stick 4GB DDR3 which task manager shows is running at 1400 MHz. This pc runs on integrated graphics so the power consumption is very low, infact this 550W PSU is quite overkill for this system.

And while the disks may be a bit full, I still can't explain why this sudden slow copy/move behavior for newer files while older files/videos transfer at full speed. Infact both drives have nearly a TB of free space which is more than sufficient space considering their capacity and I have used them when they were even more filled and had no such issues.

Also, like I previously said I see one of my internal HDD (WDC WD20EZAZ-00GGJB0 : 2000.3 GB) drive is also showing the same issue but not to the extent of the external drives. Like any new downloaded movie onto this internal drive is copied to another drive at about 50MB/s but after making a copy of this same video, this "copy" transfers at almost 100MB/s. So it feels impossible that all of a sudden all these different drives are having the same issue at the same time. Any this point I have no clue how I suddenly have all of these issues when everything had been working just fine.

 

[Ralston18]

That answers a lot of questions as I now understand this thread.

The system does not have enough RAM. The system needs at least 8 GB via a 2 x 4GB RAM kit for Dual Channel use.

Although that 550 watt PSU may seem to be enough it may not be able to keep up with peak power demands during file transfer activities.

@Misgar noted some concerns regarding the CPU. Very valid concerns.

Another area of concern is that the specific's regarding files being copied and moved are different. Especially with respect to copying and moving between drives and drive partitions. Do you use "drag and drop"?

Here is a link that provides much more detail:

https://www.elevenforum.com/t/change-default-drag-and-drop-action-in-windows-11.2924/

Drives are beyond a "bit full". All may work well until some threshold limit is reached and at that point performance collapses. Some value "X" works fine. Go to "X+1" and all falters.

I am unable to explain why newer files are slower than older files. What is necessary would be to observe overall system performance and compare what changes or is otherwise different with respect to newer files compared to older files. All other factors being the same: source location - target location or copy vs move.

CPU, RAM, drives....

You did note some observations via Task Manager. That is good. More of the same is needed.

You must take a look via Resource Monitor as well.

Key is to discover what changes when file transfers become slow. What system resources are being used, to what extent, and what is using any given resource.

Depending on circumstances it could be that RAM is full and the system tries to make use of the Pagefile which may in turn be restricted because of limited disk space.

It will take time and effort to work through it all. Just be sure to backup all important data away from the system and drives in question.

My summary thought at the moment is that the system for one reason or another (or multiple reasons even) has hit a threshold.

The system simply cannot do what is now being required.

 

[azuree125]

Another weird thing I noticed is that a tv episode (about 300MB) downloaded from torrent was being a bit slow to transfer on my PC as I mentioned. So I deleted it, attached the drive to another laptop and again downloaded this same video to it via deluge but this time the drive showed the exact same behavior like in my PC.

Like if my PC hardware was really the limitation how could I explain the same behavior on another laptop. And even the new files/videos downloaded on the drive transferred with same slow speed on another PC. Almost like a infection it has spread. But how could different from different makers drives show the exact same behavior. Hella puzzling.

 

[Ralston18]

Your preceding post simply begs the question - if some download is slow on both the PC and the laptop what else is common: the drive, the file, the source?

What TV espisode? What is the file source? Link?

And to be fair - what are the specs of that "other laptop"?

Do you have any comparative "downloads" where the transfer rate is "fast"? Explain and quantify.

Late thought/question: what file types/extensions?

 

[azuree125]

Your preceding post simply begs the question - if some download is slow on both the PC and the laptop what else is common: the drive, the file, the source?

What TV espisode? What is the file source? Link?

And to be fair - what are the specs of that "other laptop"?

Do you have any comparative "downloads" where the transfer rate is "fast"? Explain and quantify.

Late thought/question: what file types/extensions?

It was this episode I think I tested with on both my pc and the other laptop. But not only specific to this, any new video I download show this slow copy/move behavior on the drives until I make a copy of the file, which then somehow magically becomes just fine to transfer.

Don't know the exact specs of the laptop since it was some guy's at the office, but didn't seem that old considering it was running windows 11.

I tested with downloading a 5GB zip on to my drives and it was showing the exact same behavior until I made its copy (this first copy takes some time to make since I'm using the original file - around 15MB/s). Now the new copy of the zip was transferring at the normal 70+ MB/s range which is normal for this drive.

My question is could all these drives have somehow have developed the same hardware defect all at the same time? Like I understand if it was only one drive but for multiple external and internal drives to have to same kinda issue at the same seems way too incredulous. In fact both my external drives are barely a few months old and SMART data shows no errors with any of the drives. So could something else be the source of these issues?

 

[Ralston18]

"Don't know the exact specs of the laptop since it was some guy's at the office, but didn't seem that old considering it was running windows 11."

How well was Windows 11 running? Why did he give up the office laptop?

I do not have (full disclosure) a specific answer as to what is happening with respect to the slowed performance.

The bottom line to it all is that that laptop and attached drives are simply not up to the required tasks.

Lack of RAM, short on disk space, and "iffy" CPU....

And being only "a few months old" does not mean that a component is going to fully and properly work.

Hardware being the base issue. Second to that is the files that are being downloaded.

I would not be surprised if some of those torrented files are buggy, corrupt, or infected. And all gets worse everytime you attempt to move files around and/or attempt to download more files. Zipped or otherwise.

All I can suggest at this time is to stop downloading files, stop transferring files around, free up disk space, add RAM, run AV/malware scans, and then assess performance. A new CPU may be warranted.

There may be other ideas and suggestions - I have no problem with that.

 

[Misgar]

Its a single stick 4GB DDR3 .... This pc runs on integrated graphics

Which means that some of your 4GB is set aside for the iGPU, so Windows might have less than 3.75GB of RAM to run in. This is not ideal. As @titan says, you need 8GB (or more). I try to fit 16GB in each of my older PCs, to give Windows + Programs room to "breathe".

If you check the Memory section in Resource Manager (accessed from Task Manager) it should give an indication of 'Hardware Reserved' memory (used by the iGPU).

On my i7-4770K rig using iGPU graphics, I lose 342MB system RAM to 'Hardware Reserved'. This is not a problem because I have 4 x 4GB (16GB) DDR3 RAM installed.

Whilst you've got the Memory tab open, check the amount of 'In Use' memory. If you have very little 'Standby' memory, you're running out of system RAM for Windows to work in. As @titan says, this will lead to more page file use (on the boot drive?) which will slow things down.

any new video I download show this slow copy/move behavior on the drives until I make a copy of the file, which then somehow magically becomes just fine to transfer.

When you download a torrent, the file is gradually built up from thousands of small pieces. Regardless of which hard disk you use for the initial torrent file, if the drive is not empty, the saved file will be heavily fragmented and scattered across the drive.

Reading back a heavily fragmented file from hard disk, takes longer than reading the same file stored in one big "lump" on contiguous disk sectors.

Similarly, writing a large file to hard disk takes longer, if there is no space large enough to save the data as one contiguous "lump". You have no control over where the disk controller saves files.

A brand new empty hard disk will allow faster reads and writes, because it is easier for the driver controller to write/read data to/from continuous sectors. In addition, outer tracks run at twice the transfer speed of innermost tracks, because there are double the number of sectors per track.

When the drive starts to fill up and you delete some files, it becomes fragmented. Read and write operations take longer, as the heads skip back and forth over the tracks/sectors, picking up hundreds/thousands of small (fragmented) data blocks to complete the file.

Add to this the problem of Shingled Magnetic Recording, where the drive is forced to read back multiple tracks and shuffle data around when saving new blocks, and you've added to the delays.

If you are still seeding a torrent after downloading a file, the disk drive will be busy serving other peers with dozens/hundreds of file fragments, slowing down your copy process when you transfer the file to another drive.

Given the limitation of your system (2-core CPU, low 3.1GHz clock speed, limited RAM, external SMR drives), I'd recommend closing all unecessary programs before transferring files and disconnect from the internet. Your torrent manager, web browser, etc., will all be consuming CPU clock cycles, system RAM and disk access time. You need to reduce all other activity to a minimum when testing disk to disk copy speed.

SMART data shows no errors with any of the drives

SMART doesn't always give all the information you'd expect or hope for, unless you're prepared to run a long SMART test on each drive. A long test can take hours and is best done over night when you're asleep. With any luck, the test will have finished when you wake up.
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/163843-how-check-drive-health-smart-status-windows-10-a.html

A more easily comprehended SMART test with GUI is available in Hard Disk Sentinel:
https://www.hdsentinel.com/

This is an example of a hard disk with serious problems.

I'd also suggest running CHKDSK /F /R on each drive to check for file errors and bad blocks.
https://www.howtogeek.com/1033/how-to-use-chkdsk-on-windows/

On your system drive, run SFC /SCANNOW.
https://www.howtogeek.com/222532/ho...-system-files-with-the-sfc-and-dism-commands/

 

[azuree125]

"Don't know the exact specs of the laptop since it was some guy's at the office, but didn't seem that old considering it was running windows 11."

How well was Windows 11 running? Why did he give up the office laptop?

I do not have (full disclosure) a specific answer as to what is happening with respect to the slowed performance.

The bottom line to it all is that that laptop and attached drives are simply not up to the required tasks.

Lack of RAM, short on disk space, and "iffy" CPU....

And being only "a few months old" does not mean that a component is going to fully and properly work.

Hardware being the base issue. Second to that is the files that are being downloaded.

I would not be surprised if some of those torrented files are buggy, corrupt, or infected. And all gets worse everytime you attempt to move files around and/or attempt to download more files. Zipped or otherwise.

All I can suggest at this time is to stop downloading files, stop transferring files around, free up disk space, add RAM, run AV/malware scans, and then assess performance. A new CPU may be warranted.

There may be other ideas and suggestions - I have no problem with that.

I don't think any of those files are corrupted otherwise how are they completely okay when a "copy" of the same file is made.

Also I did another check with internal hard drive (ST1000DM010-2EP102 : 1000.2 GB) where windows is loaded and this drive is also showing same behavior like others. So now a total of 5 drives (2 internal+3 external) is showing the exact same issue.

And I don't even stress the system that much when transferring files. At most a browser window will be open and I've used my PC like this for years and have copied/moved TBs of data to and fro and never faced such a puzzling behavior.

Do you think the PSU be the causing factor because that's only the most recent change I made in my pc hardware, but does psu even cause such a weird behavior in the first place?

 

[azuree125]

Which means that some of your 4GB is set aside for the iGPU, so Windows might have less than 3.75GB of RAM to run in. This is not ideal. As @titan says, you need 8GB (or more). I try to fit 16GB in each of my older PCs, to give Windows + Programs room to "breathe".

If you check the Memory section in Resource Manager (accessed from Task Manager) it should give an indication of 'Hardware Reserved' memory (used by the iGPU).

On my i7-4770K rig using iGPU graphics, I lose 342MB system RAM to 'Hardware Reserved'. This is not a problem because I have 4 x 4GB (16GB) DDR3 RAM installed.

Whilst you've got the Memory tab open, check the amount of 'In Use' memory. If you have very little 'Standby' memory, you're running out of system RAM for Windows to work in. As @titan says, this will lead to more page file use (on the boot drive?) which will slow things down.


When you download a torrent, the file is gradually built up from thousands of small pieces. Regardless of which hard disk you use for the initial torrent file, if the drive is not empty, the saved file will be heavily fragmented and scattered across the drive.

Reading back a heavily fragmented file from hard disk, takes longer than reading the same file stored in one big "lump" on contiguous disk sectors.

Similarly, writing a large file to hard disk takes longer, if there is no space large enough to save the data as one contiguous "lump". You have no control over where the disk controller saves files.

A brand new empty hard disk will allow faster reads and writes, because it is easier for the driver controller to write/read data to/from continuous sectors. In addition, outer tracks run at twice the transfer speed of innermost tracks, because there are double the number of sectors per track.

When the drive starts to fill up and you delete some files, it becomes fragmented. Read and write operations take longer, as the heads skip back and forth over the tracks/sectors, picking up hundreds/thousands of small (fragmented) data blocks to complete the file.

Add to this the problem of Shingled Magnetic Recording, where the drive is forced to read back multiple tracks and shuffle data around when saving new blocks, and you've added to the delays.

If you are still seeding a torrent after downloading a file, the disk drive will be busy serving other peers with dozens/hundreds of file fragments, slowing down your copy process when you transfer the file to another drive.

Given the limitation of your system (2-core CPU, low 3.1GHz clock speed, limited RAM, external SMR drives), I'd recommend closing all unecessary programs before transferring files and disconnect from the internet. Your torrent manager, web browser, etc., will all be consuming CPU clock cycles, system RAM and disk access time. You need to reduce all other activity to a minimum when testing disk to disk copy speed.


SMART doesn't always give all the information you'd expect or hope for, unless you're prepared to run a long SMART test on each drive. A long test can take hours and is best done over night when you're asleep. With any luck, the test will have finished when you wake up.
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/163843-how-check-drive-health-smart-status-windows-10-a.html

A more easily comprehended SMART test with GUI is available in Hard Disk Sentinel:
https://www.hdsentinel.com/

This is an example of a hard disk with serious problems.

I'd also suggest running CHKDSK /F /R on each drive to check for file errors and bad blocks.
https://www.howtogeek.com/1033/how-to-use-chkdsk-on-windows/

On your system drive, run SFC /SCANNOW.
https://www.howtogeek.com/222532/ho...-system-files-with-the-sfc-and-dism-commands/

Resource monitor says only 131MB is hardware reserved. And I accept all your arguments its just that this issue suddenly appeared out of nowhere is affecting a total of 5 drives one of which is almost half empty and no hardware issues. I've used these drives when they were even more filled up but never encountered all of this issues which seems to be limited to only newly downloaded files.

 

[Ralston18]

Low RAM, full disks, marginal CPU - those are hardware issues.

And yes, if the PSU is at or nearing its designed in EOL (End of Life) it may also be starting to falter and fail thus making things even worse.

As for "only newly downloaded files" it could be due to some changes in the files related to copyright protections, AV/malware, or even (as mentioned) the torrenting process itself.

Remember threshold. Old files (= "X") worked. New files (= "X+1") crossed the threshold at some point and problems began.

It only takes a single byte ("+1") to have all go astray.

I will venture the thought that all has gone well beyond just "+1".

 

[Misgar]

this issue suddenly appeared out of nowhere

I know what I'd do now to see if it's the drives or the PC:-

Switch to a significantly faster PC with a multi-core CPU and loads of RAM, e.g. minimum 4-core, 4GHz+, 16GB RAM.

Failing that, I'd find a cheap 128GB SATA SSD, install a fresh copy of Windows and your BitTorrent client, then test the drives again. Something in Windows might be screwed up. It's equally likely some of your hardware is failing (CPU/RAM/chipset/mobo/cables).

It might be an idea to run some good hard disk defrag software, but it will "hammer" any SMR drives mercilessly. Better to empty each SMR drive completely (copy all files to another drive) and start filling them again.

Have you run CHKDSK on your drives yet?

I'd also run MemTest86 on your RAM.

Check 'Disk Activity' in 'Resource Monitor'. You might be surprised at the large number of entries associated with torrenting.

 

[azuree125]

Low RAM, full disks, marginal CPU - those are hardware issues.

And yes, if the PSU is at or nearing its designed in EOL (End of Life) it may also be starting to falter and fail thus making things even worse.

As for "only newly downloaded files" it could be due to some changes in the files related to copyright protections, AV/malware, or even (as mentioned) the torrenting process itself.

The PSU is brand new, barely 40 days old and it hasn't shown any problems so I don't know if its somehow affecting the drives in such a peculiar manner. I mean if the PSU was bad shouldn't it affect the drives as a whole and not just selectively affect the newer files I download..

 

[azuree125]

I know what I'd do now to see if it's the drives or the PC:-

Switch to a significantly faster PC with a multi-core CPU and loads of RAM, e.g. minimum 4-core, 4GHz+, 16GB RAM.

Failing that, I'd find a cheap 128GB SATA SSD, install a fresh copy of Windows and your BitTorrent client, then test the drives again. Something in Windows might be screwed up. It's equally likely some of your hardware is failing (CPU/RAM/chipset/mobo/cables).

It might be an idea to run some good hard disk defrag software, but it will "hammer" any SMR drives mercilessly. Better to empty each SMR drive completely (copy all files to another drive) and start filling them again.

Have you run CHKDSK on your drives yet?

I'd also run MemTest86 on your RAM.

Check 'Disk Activity' in 'Resource Monitor'. You might be surprised at the large number of entries associated with torrenting.

I ran sfc scannow for the system and error checking from the tools tab for each of the drives and none of them showed any errors.

 

[Ralston18]

Will second @Misgar's suggestions.

= = = =

Set aside that the issue is the "newer files" per se.

The "older files" were downloaded when all those drives were not so full. Newer files are having problems because of the disks now being much fuller and the system's hardware now proving to be inadequate for copying, moving, etc..

The hardware specs and metrics are showing that.

You do not need to have errors to have slow performance.

Slow performance being and continuing to be the overall issue starting with the original post.

Think about this: what will you do when copying or moving even the older files becomes slower and problematic?

The next threshold that is hit could be catastrophic - with errors and data loss.

Also not an "if". It is a "when".

 

[azuree125]

Guess I'll monitor the situation for now and try out a few more things to see if the speed normalizes for the newer files

 

[Misgar]

I've always had "fun" copying files over USB3, especially from Compact Flash and Secure Digital cards. Switching to high quality Kingston and Lexar readers helped, but the most important fix was to ditch long (0.5m/1ft) cheap cables and use shorter high quality 0.3m/8in leads. I was getting occasional file corruption, as shown by comparing original and copied directories with FreeFileSync.
https://freefilesync.org/

I recommend keeping your external USB drive cables as short as possible. You should be OK with the cables supplied with your external drives, provided you plug them directly into the USB ports on the back of your computer. You might experience more problems if you use the front panel USB sockets on a desktop PC and they're connected down to the motherboard via long (0.3 to 0.5m) internal cables. Keep the entire USB cable run from the mothernboard to the external drive as short as possible.

This is just general "good practice" and won't be the cause of your slow copy speeds.

 

[azuree125]

I've always had "fun" copying files over USB3, especially from Compact Flash and Secure Digital cards. Switching to high quality Kingston and Lexar readers helped, but the most important fix was to ditch long (0.5m/1ft) cheap cables and use shorter high quality 0.3m/8in leads. I was getting occasional file corruption, as shown by comparing original and copied directories with FreeFileSync.
https://freefilesync.org/

I recommend keeping your external USB drive cables as short as possible. You should be OK with the cables supplied with your external drives, provided you plug them directly into the USB ports on the back of your computer. You might experience more problems if you use the front panel USB sockets on a desktop PC and they're connected down to the motherboard via long (0.3 to 0.5m) internal cables. Keep the entire USB cable run from the mothernboard to the external drive as short as possible.

This is just general "good practice" and won't be the cause of your slow copy speeds.

Yes I'm using the supplied cables and have them plugged in the back of my PC. I really haven't changed anything with system recently which is why I'm so puzzled at how are all the drives (internal+ext) exhibiting the same behavior.

 

[Misgar]

As already suggested, clear one of the drives completely, then start filling it again. This might show if it's a drive "feature" or a slow computer "problem".

 

[azuree125]

As already suggested, clear one of the drives completely, then start filling it again. This might show if it's a drive "feature" or a slow computer "problem".

Might try but will take some time since it has a lot of data