Noob with questions about DX10 and DX11

[gamerk316]

Lots of claims being made, regardless of the numbers, regardless of the acceptence, regardless of progress.
Things are turning around economically, and thats the only thing slowing the Vista uptake, and having W7 so close, it really doesnt count at this point, as W7 will finally offer something new, something tried and true, and for anyone stuck on xp, nothing but blue heheh.
Progress is going to happen,even if the current belief is the world is flat.

Tell me one thing in 7 that the general consumer would find "worth it" to spend ~$200 to upgrade? Thats the crux of the problem; for every previous version of Windows, there was reason to upgrade (Security or stability). But XP is considered good enough for most people. People liking 7 != people buying 7.

It takes a year (at least) for major software development, mainly because of the low initial hardware support. Even if XP could use DX11, there would still be a 1 year wait until DX11 becomes standard. Of course, since XP can't run 11, I'm projecting 18 months to 2 years instead. Thats all.

 

[mactronix]

Tell me one thing in 7 that the general consumer would find "worth it" to spend ~$200 to upgrade? Thats the crux of the problem; for every previous version of Windows, there was reason to upgrade (Security or stability). But XP is considered good enough for most people. People liking 7 != people buying 7.

It takes a year (at least) for major software development, mainly because of the low initial hardware support. Even if XP could use DX11, there would still be a 1 year wait until DX11 becomes standard. Of course, since XP can't run 11, I'm projecting 18 months to 2 years instead. Thats all.

I really don't understand where you are coming from with this. Im in the UK and have ordered W7 for £50. So either you guys are getting royally screwed or you are talking about the top package which i don't see the average Joe needing.
Now from my price point that's half the price at least of a GPU or CPU upgrade. As i have said before i get similar (about 75%) of the increase in performance in games as i would expect to see from upgrading either when running W7. Now if thats not a "Worth it" reason to change from XP to W7 i dont know what is.
Yes Vista users really dont have a reason to change but as the basis of your argument is about getting shot of XP then Vista is not relevant . Also dont get caught up on the games needing to be here, DX11 as is will give boosts as well. If you are buying soon then there is no negative side to buying either W7 or a DX11 card. IMHO

Mactronix

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Itll take 2 years for most games, or all games. All this means is, the new dev of real DX10 engines. Theres a few already, and more to come. Each time 1 is done, the old DX9 engine go away.
You of course can and the devs most likely will still code in DX9, but theyll be using the newer engines, with DX11 coded in as well. Sure itll be expensive, but all this about OS this, and wait for that cause this is too expensive... you know whats really becoming expensive for devs, but theres lil mention of it? And most likely to just become more costly? The artwork. Devs have been outsourcing for awhile, but like all outsourced work, even it matures, and becomes more costly, and theres really no virgin territory if you will, to find cheap art work for games.
Some say OS, some say"we wont use any fixed HW solutions", some say "we wont use a physx solution", some say consoles, and no ones talking about the serious costs of artwork.
Id say this, it wont become cost effective soon going DX9, as those titles will be effected by these costs, and still show no future UNLESS its a patched from DX10 engine DOWN to DX9, and again, once the DX10 engines are done, its all over for real DX9
Theres many things that effect gaming costs, and the gaming market, and each segment, but to simply put it on xp or any OS just isnt even the primary reason for devs moving one way or the other.
If we all did nothing, and just kept our current cards and OS', then itd never get here

Someone needs to get more creative, find ways to block or stop pirating, and find a second market for older games, this would put an end to this crap.
Weve reached a point where older games have value, and resale, or even reprints could help sustain the devs thru licensing, where they wouldnt be so skittish about consoles, LRB, SW approach vs fixed function etc etc
This "we have to make all out money the first 60 days of release " crap has to end
My 2c

 

[gamerk316]

But again, it comes down to what percentage of the market has compatable HW/SW. Within the first 6 months, that number will be 10% (if that...), where the market for DX10 will be around 55% (assuming 10% of XP users flip AND have compatable hardware), and the market for DX9 will be >95%. Hence, the slow adoption rate, which is standard.

Also, where are people getting 75% increases in gaming performance under 7? I got MAYBE 2-3 FPS, if that (well within my margins, i typically ignore <5 FPS changes). Its about as fast as XP; why is that incentive for XP users to switch? Heck, even Vista is a good OS now; why should I switch from that?

I plan to switch next time I have to format my PC, not before. I figure that means 2-3 years. I have no interest in new software that offers 0% benifit. Its that simple for me.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

It comes down to game engines, and devs wanting to use them.
Itd be suicide to wait any longer, as everything will be DX10 on up in 2 years
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1323210&postcount=66
"Porting from 10 to 11 is an easy job but with a simple port you only enable your game to use DX11 features. To get some benefits you need to use these features.

Porting from 9 to 11 is the same pain as 9 to 10. If you do it the naïve (fast) way you will end with the same bad performances we already know from bad 9 to 10 ports."
And more here

"DX 10 was designed in a way to reduce the CPU overhead per draw call. But this doesn’t help if the engine GPU abstraction layer was build for a DX9 like API. This way you end mapping a DX9 like interface to DX 10 and waste all the CPU power that you can win by using DX10.

You can even make bigger mistakes that would make DX10 slower then 9."
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1326798&postcount=102

Say what you will, its too late, xp is dying, and every DX10 engine made means its just that much closer, and using DX10/11 means familiarity and higher/better usage, and if they dont start now, its too late, and many already have

 

[Mousemonkey]

XP may have a Rasputin like survival ability, but I have seen the future and it doesn't include XP, soon another stake shall pierce it's still beating heart.