Nuclear Subs Now Run on Windows

[DGriffin]

holy crap

 

[gm0n3y]

Sorry, I should clarify, I meant that all of the USERS here are windows fanboys. I use Windows every day and rarely use Linux and never use Mac and I prefer Windows over any other OS. I just don't get why people here can't take a joke about M$. Did all the Intel fanboys around here get bored and jump on the other major tech monopoly bandwagon?

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Windows (or Linux for that matter) is not a problem for this type of use -- management applications. All this does is unify some command and control functions which were previously separate systems. If the system goes down, individual stations would be able to manually override.

Where both Windows and Linux fail and should not be used are applications where a deterministic time period is involved. For these applications, a RTOS like QNX, VxWorks, or RTLinux must be used. For instance, if you are going to run the reactor control system using a computer governed by an OS, and the computer must sample plant pressure at least every 100 msec to ensure proper protection, you cannot use a standard OS kernel like Windows or regular Linux, because they cannot guarantee that a particular code block will always be able to run at that interval. An RTOS can.

 

[talzara]

British submarines have been running Windows for four years. The first British nuclear sub, HMS Torbay, was outfitted with SMCS back in 2004. This is just the completion of the rollout to all twelve of their nuclear subs.

Compared to the consumer arena, there are many things that are very different in an embedded application. First, cost. Windows is essentially free. Not zero, but basically negligible when compared to the price of the overall system. Printing the training manuals probably cost more than all the licenses of Windows.

Second, certification and access to source code. Yes, you read that right. It's closed-source to you, but it's not closed source to large customers who need to do security auditing. The Ministry of Defence has surely used Windows 2000 and XP previously in other apps, so these two OSes would already be certified and ready to go. A different system would have had to start at square one.

Finally, availability of developers. If you've got Windows developers on staff, you don't make them run out and learn something new, or go out and hire a bunch of new people. Especially since they have to be vetted and granted security clearance.

 

[vaskodogama]

[citation][nom]SomeJoe7777[/nom]Windows (or Linux for that matter) is not a problem for this type of use -- management applications. All this does is unify some command and control functions which were previously separate systems. If the system goes down, individual stations would be able to manually override.Where both Windows and Linux fail and should not be used are applications where a deterministic time period is involved. For these applications, a RTOS like QNX, VxWorks, or RTLinux must be used. For instance, if you are going to run the reactor control system using a computer governed by an OS, and the computer must sample plant pressure at least every 100 msec to ensure proper protection, you cannot use a standard OS kernel like Windows or regular Linux, because they cannot guarantee that a particular code block will always be able to run at that interval. An RTOS can.[/citation]
yeah that's right, the kernel of any normal OS like Windows or mac or etc, cannot guarantee the code's wanted exact execution time , so there will be delays, delays to errors, errors to system hangs, and the missle directly hit Washington DC, not Bin Ladan! haha!
but BSOD? come on man! I haven't seen it in years, after XP SP2 or some time, if you keep windows clean, like you keep your room or clothes clean, you wont get a BSOD, or get sick!
[ i got a BSOD from vista, when my P35 board was cracked when I was pushing HARD inserting STUPID pins of the intel cpu heatsink holder or what else you call it in the mobo, stupid thing! these PINS, we should discuss this ]

 

[vaskodogama]

[citation][nom]talzara[/nom]British submarines
i agree with you too! have been running Windows for four years. The first British nuclear sub, HMS Torbay, was outfitted with SMCS back in 2004. This is just the completion of the rollout to all twelve of their nuclear subs.Compared to the consumer arena, there are many things that are very different in an embedded application. First, cost. Windows is essentially free. Not zero, but basically negligible when compared to the price of the overall system. Printing the training manuals probably cost more than all the licenses of Windows.Second, certification and access to source code. Yes, you read that right. It's closed-source to you, but it's not closed source to large customers who need to do security auditing. The Ministry of Defence has surely used Windows 2000 and XP previously in other apps, so these two OSes would already be certified and ready to go. A different system would have had to start at square one.Finally, availability of developers. If you've got Windows developers on staff, you don't make them run out and learn something new, or go out and hire a bunch of new people. Especially since they have to be vetted and granted security clearance.[/citation]

 

[Guest]

There might not be an exposed usb port, or anything save for keyboard or mouse for operator input. But, you just can not get away with the fact that these systems do have to be installed/maintained/patched/whatever, ergo they have to have some soft of peripheral device in order to do so. This job might as well be delegated to professional maintenance staff. However, even this staff, while doing so, might inadvertently bring some nasty piece of virus or whatever in. This would not be the first time this happens, as we have all heard about e.g. retail USB drives or device driver CDs infected with malware at factories. The fact is that this would not be possible to happen in the first place should they use a custom military-developed system. There is good reason consumer grade products are not used in military, especially in these crucial scenarios. I sincerely doubt they use your average powerplant nuclear reactor, or ocean liner-grade diesel engines in them. Why should computers be any different?

 

[Guest]

Now I am really scared

 

[bydesign]

I just want to know where the error report goes...

 

[vladtepes]

Seems like a South Park joke!!. Nuclear missiles launched!! Abort, retry, deny?

 

[Spikke]

U.S. subs have been running systems that use Windows for some time now, though many systems still use a variation of Unix. Components that you can get off the shelf and that can run Windows are far cheaper than building a system for an explicit purpose running a specialized version of Unix or Lynix.

 

[zodiacfml]

hehe, abort, retry, ignore?
seriously, if you reduce an OS to its basics and combine it with military grade hardware, it becomes reliable. more reliable than commercial servers.
i doubt you'll see any kind of hardware ports and Windows GUI in these systems.

 

[that_aznpride101]

I just realized why they installed Windows on the subs. It's so they can play the pc game DEFCON! (Google "defcon" & "introversion")

 

[malveaux]

LOL,

We're doomed.

Very best,

 

[apache_lives]

[citation][nom]vaskodogama[/nom]yeah that's right, the kernel of any normal OS like Windows or mac or etc, cannot guarantee the code's wanted exact execution time , so there will be delays, delays to errors, errors to system hangs, and the missle directly hit Washington DC, not Bin Ladan! haha! but BSOD? come on man! I haven't seen it in years, after XP SP2 or some time, if you keep windows clean, like you keep your room or clothes clean, you wont get a BSOD, or get sick![ i got a BSOD from vista, when my P35 board was cracked when I was pushing HARD inserting STUPID pins of the intel cpu heatsink holder or what else you call it in the mobo, stupid thing! these PINS, we should discuss this ][/citation]

Those Clip Pins are 100%, if you have issues then thats your issue noob, if you learn how to do it properly its not an issue!

All this windows business means they are actually using "x86" architecture (Intel/AMD) etc - i wonder what specs these machines are, i know more then likely Intel based (come on, there chipsets are second to none).

This brings all new threats - spyware, loose security (well less, since its the most common platform etc), equipement abuse (gaming etc), i wonder if it were possible for someone computer savvy enough to steal one of these babys and run it just by knowing a bit of code etc and a back way through windows etc.

 

[enforcer22]

You people watch way to many freaking movies and are way to set in your idiotic windows is crap mindset. Get over it seriously. Sneeking movies and games to the bridge of the sub? are you freaking serious? btw there are alot more x86 chips then amd and intel so it doesnt have to be one of those and the i really dont think the military cares about peoples fanboyism when it comes to thier control systems, so no it doesnt have to be a intel. BTW of subject but thier chipsets.... not so great.

its going to work fine. Like it has been for a decade or so. Its going to do the job it was ment to do untill they goto a new system. If you expect anything less your one of those dumb ass's that thinks every computer problem is microsofts fault and want to crusify some guy you never met because your an idiot and dont know the first thing about what to NOT do with your computers. In 14 years of being a tech i found out one thing. 50% of computer problems are the user most of the rest is hardware that was broken or software someone thought was really cool cuz it was crap freeware or (open source) I know it doesnt all suck - they installed and started getting problems and want to blame ms.

it doesnt matter what os they use its going to run fine. There must be a good reason why they picked windows. Im assuming since they want to goto reguler hardware to save money it makes sense to goto a OS that supports pretty much anything. If they keep using thier custom hardware i dont really know why other then maybe its easyer to adapt it to windows no idea there.

 

[bin1127]

I really don't think the British would just gamble on Windows if they didn't believe it was stable and secure enough. Windows is not bad at all. If writing an OS was that easy there'd already be tons of alternatives to Windows.

 

[nekatreven]

This program has inadvertently nuked Peru and needs to close. Please take a moment to report this error to Microsoft so that we may continue to improve our product.

(I love winders, btw...I'm just having fun)

 

[Guest]

All I can think of now is people playing quake3 on lan in those subs instead of doing their jobs

 

[Darkk]

At least they're not going to use Vista!

 

[davidgbailey]

There is a huge difference between Windows running on military grade hardware and Windows running on a PC. Although, when you're talking about nuclear submarines, I don't think that cost effectiveness should be your number one priority. Shouldn't the argument be that this will add more stability to your system? I'm not saying that it doesn't (it probably doesn't), but that wasn't their argument. They also talk about saving money because the people don't have to be retrained. Well, what about all of the experienced people that are already extremely familiar with whatever the subs were running prior? They will most assuredly have to be retrained. And, Quake 3 Arena lan parties 20,000 leagues under the sea FTW!

 

[cerulean]

Will they put the Powered by Windows sticker on the outside of the sub now?

It's never been so easy to kill someone! Just click
Start->Programs->British Royal Navy->Torpedo Defense Systems->Shortcut to DeathAndDestruction.exe

 

[gm0n3y]

I wonder if even they can get Internet Explorer fully removed?

 

[Tindytim]

[citation][nom]gm0n3y[/nom]I wonder if even they can get Internet Explorer fully removed?[/citation]
Microsoft is forced to allow people to remove IE in England. Not to mention the military people knows something about slipstreaming a Windows install.

 

[gm0n3y]

I wonder if they could just patch minesweeper for ships to make it easier to avoid mines.