Number of unemployed persons per job opening

[Nim Chimpsky]

According to this data, in August there were 4.6 unemployed persons per job opening.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

It would seem theres no link, and if whatever numbers these may be, we could cut unemployment by over 20%, which would lead to more jobs as well, due to the extra purchasing power

 

[Nim Chimpsky]

It would seem theres no link, and if whatever numbers these may be, we could cut unemployment by over 20%, which would lead to more jobs as well, due to the extra purchasing power

No link between what and what?

 

[riser]

Can't get any more accurate than that statement Oldman.

 

[chunkymonster]

Most businesses will not hire until they have certainty of what future costs will be.

Most businesses in the USA will continue to sit on their hands until after the 2012 elections are decided.

To echo this sentiment, the company I work for just extended 1 out of 3 Union contracts until May 2014 as a result of Obamacare and not knowing what the costs effects will be as a result.

A lot of business are playing "hurry-up-and-wait" game until they have some level of certainty with the market and legislation.

 

[Reynod]

I am hiring ...

Looking for lecturers in Electrical trades and plumbing and gas fitting ... must have trade papers and preferrably a teaching qual.

I will also be looking for a carpentry and joinery lecturer in the new year.

PM me if interested and i will send you the link.

Must have Working with Children and Education Police clearance.

Govt jobs.

 

[Nim Chimpsky]

The main reason I posted was to put some numbers to a discussion that takes place somewhat often. There's sometimes the claim that jobless people are either unwilling to take a job or unqualified. The numbers show that even if all available jobs were filled, there would still be a significant amount of unemployment, even if the unemployed all became qualified and willing. So Herman Cain's "If you don't have a job ... blame yourself," for example, is false.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

And I say, since therell obviously more tax monies to be had, more money in peoples pockets, more goods being bought, someone has to make the goods, someone has to sell them, ship them etc
Having more tax money helps settle huge current debt problems etc
The snowball starts rolling in the right direction

 

[Nim Chimpsky]

And I say, since therell obviously more tax monies to be had, more money in peoples pockets, more goods being bought, someone has to make the goods, someone has to sell them, ship them etc
Having more tax money helps settle huge current debt problems etc
The snowball starts rolling in the right direction

I'm having trouble seeing the connection between our posts, but maybe you're not trying to connect them. I'm all for Buffet's taxation idea.

 

[Nim Chimpsky]

Just noticed what jaydeejohn was trying to tell me: there's no link! My bad. http://www.bls.gov/web/jolts/jlt_labstatgraphs.pdf

 

[Nim Chimpsky]

Historically in America full employment is considered to be 4-5% unemployment. That is perfectly sustainable. Your always going to have unemployment because we have a dynamic economy. People are moving from poverty to employment to prosperity and vice versa.

Currently we have a 9.1% unemployment rate. Also, real wages are just not increasing fast enough for the increasing cost of living; except for the 1% of course.

Plus, some people just cant work or are unwilling to and society takes care of them through government or charity. No, people that don't work can not have the same things as people who do work for them. That is not unfairness, that is reality.

The point of the graph (for which I have now provided a link) is that people will be unemployed even if "some people just can't work or are unwilling." People who can work and are willing.

 

[riser]

Your argument is flawed Nim.

Manufacturing wages are decreasing (jobs are going way), management wages are up (20% of middle class is management). Looking at the high level, wages are flat. For example, manufacturing has an extremely high unemployment rate. Information Technology has an extremely low unemployment rate which is sitting around 3.1% nationally.
During the recession my personal wages have increased 36%. I am not a business owner or anything, just a middle class working person. I am not in your so called 1% either.

The question to ask if why is the cost of living going up and why are wages flat? If you can accurately answer those questions, it will point you to the root cause.

To expand, wages are flat because of economic uncertainity. Who controls that?
Cost of living is going up because other costs are going up due to regulations in place. Who controls that?

 

[l0ckd0wn]

The question to ask if why is the cost of living going up and why are wages flat? If you can accurately answer those questions, it will point you to the root cause.

To expand, wages are flat because of economic uncertainity. Who controls that?
Cost of living is going up because other costs are going up due to regulations in place. Who controls that?

Your rebuttal is also flawed, in that the wages have stagnated over a much larger time period than immediately after the financial collapse; the systemic root of the economic insecurity currently occupying the markets, created and manifested in the same place.

The regulation argument for the cost of goods going up is a red herring, mostly because the businesses exporting jobs and manufacturing are seeking higher profits, nothing more. The more we employ free trade agreements and foreign policies that directly limit American businesses amongst global competition, the more we see the exportation of all aspects of manufacturing and product creation. IMO, once we remove trade preference (free trade agreements) and impose the same regulations for importation of goods (to create an even manufacturing baseline) there won't be such a rush to seek cheap labor elsewhere. The cost of labor is truly the most dominant factor in moving operations elsewhere; why pay American's dollars/hour when you can pay foreigners pennies/hour?

Imposing the same standards of production on goods created in other countries (same standards for safety, quality, consistency, etc.) through business expectations and proper corporate management, as well as government regulation, would in-turn bring more jobs back to this country.

For all those the continue to blame the government for all our woes, you might want to consider major manufactures like I've listed below:

HP - Laid off 60,000 American workers and outsourced the jobs to India.
GE - Showed revenue of upwards of US$ 15 Billion, 10 Billion of which is directly attributed to off shore investments.
GM/Big 3 - Closed down multiple plants throughout the country to send jobs to Mexico.

These corporations have no incentive of staying in the US when they can save hand-over-fist on Labor by exporting the jobs. Saying that the SAFETY and HEALTH regulations are what is bringing down these markets is disingenious and untrue. The EPA has much less of an effect at creating/destroying jobs compared to a companies options to pollute somewhere else, for less cost. The oil and gas companies were specifically mentioned earlier as being "opportunities" for job growth if it weren't for that pesky EPA. Let's just take Texas as an example and look at the fact that the state is below the national unemployment average, yet the state government has done little to nothing. It's directly related to the energy markets in Texas. Lowering health, safety and quality standards doesn't increase job growth, it increases profit on the bottom line. Nigeria and many other countries in Northern Africa are shining examples (there are no health, safety, quality standards over there, and thus the populations are dying of diesases and problems related to exposure).

But the trend is coming back, albeit extremely slowly:

This trend of reshoring or insourcing is likely to grow in the coming years, as the cost gap between building overseas and building at home narrows. It's an encouraging sign in a job market where hiring has stalled in recent months.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/17/news/economy/made_in_usa/index.htm

But this is directly related to wages increasing in other countries, specifically China, India and many places in South America. As their labor costs increase, so does the margin for profit gain SHRINK by creating products in these far off places.

I have the luxury of working in IT, within the Transportation/Logistics industry and see both sides of issue fairly clearly. The main hangup I have in all of this is the subsidization of businesses, supposedly American businesses, that only have a P.O. Box or less within the US and have all manufacturing outside of our borders. I also have huge problems with the energy subsidizies as all it is doing is propping up the shareholders and executives while passing on the bill to all the tax payers. Per a personal motto, "If you take the money out of politics, you take away the power out of the hands of the few."

 

[Nim Chimpsky]

Your argument is flawed Nim.

Manufacturing wages are decreasing (jobs are going way), management wages are up (20% of middle class is management). Looking at the high level, wages are flat. For example, manufacturing has an extremely high unemployment rate. Information Technology has an extremely low unemployment rate which is sitting around 3.1% nationally.
During the recession my personal wages have increased 36%. I am not a business owner or anything, just a middle class working person. I am not in your so called 1% either.

I'm happy for you. You're doing better than average. Link

The question to ask if why is the cost of living going up and why are wages flat? If you can accurately answer those questions, it will point you to the root cause.

To expand, wages are flat because of economic uncertainity. Who controls that?

Alan Greenspan cited that uncertainty as a positive for the economy (a negative for the people, to be sure), so I would guess the government and the business sector are responsible.

Cost of living is going up because other costs are going up due to regulations in place. Who controls that?

I don't think I could adequately explain why CoL rises, but my limited knowledge at least tells me that it's not that simple. Maybe someone here has enough experience with economics to explain it to me.

EDIT: Ah, I see someone has come to explain that and more.

 

[mjmjpfaff]

and there is tons of disease and dying people in Texas? you should not compare texas to Africa. Texas has amazing health and safety standards compared to them

I agree overall that jobs need to be brought back to the US.

 

[l0ckd0wn]

and there is tons of disease and dying people in Texas? you should not compare texas to Africa. Texas has amazing health and safety standards compared to them

I agree overall that jobs need to be brought back to the US.

I made a comparison to a place with very high standards that is an example of low unemployment, and cited another place that has very low standards that is an example of what those standards preserve; human life.

Nigeria =/= Texas, nor was I trying show they were.

 

[mjmjpfaff]

Let's just take Texas as an example and look at the fact that the state is below the national unemployment average, yet the state government has done little to nothing. It's directly related to the energy markets in Texas. Lowering health, safety and quality standards doesn't increase job growth, it increases profit on the bottom line

and the low taxes. businesses are flocking to texas because of their low tax rates. it makes sense to work there.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2011/04/20/california_dreamin_about_texas_jobs_98974.html
Some firms also say they are leaving because California's state and local budget crunch has made government voracious. LegalZoom, the online company, is leaving Los Angeles for Austin because of a lengthy dispute with city government over taxes. One thing that sealed the move: When the firm's 400 employees heard the company was contemplating leaving, some began asking to relocate. Meanwhile, Creators Syndicate, the media syndication company, has also contemplated leaving because of a dispute over taxes with the city of Los Angeles that prompted an official of the company to accuse the city of operating like a "banana republic" and its bureaucrats of acting like "Stalin's apparatchiks."

The greatest irony lies in the ‘green' companies exiting the Golden State, despite (or perhaps because of) the state's efforts to project itself as a leader in environmental legislation. CalStar Products Inc., a Newark, Ca. company, said shortly after receiving a federal clean energy subsidy that it expects to expand by building manufacturing plants in the Mississippi Valley. Cereplast Inc., an El Segundo, Ca., maker of renewable plastics, announced it was ‘reducing its footprint' in California to a mere 3,000 square feet and moving much of its operation to Indiana "to reduce drastically our costs compared to California from real estate to utilities," according to its CEO. Meanwhile CODA, an electric car and battery company based in Santa Monica, decided last year to build a new manufacturing facility in Ohio.

 

[mjmjpfaff]

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2011/04/20/california_dreamin_about_texas_jobs_98974.html
Some firms also say they are leaving because California's state and local budget crunch has made government voracious. LegalZoom, the online company, is leaving Los Angeles for Austin because of a lengthy dispute with city government over taxes. One thing that sealed the move: When the firm's 400 employees heard the company was contemplating leaving, some began asking to relocate. Meanwhile, Creators Syndicate, the media syndication company, has also contemplated leaving because of a dispute over taxes with the city of Los Angeles that prompted an official of the company to accuse the city of operating like a "banana republic" and its bureaucrats of acting like "Stalin's apparatchiks."

The greatest irony lies in the ‘green' companies exiting the Golden State, despite (or perhaps because of) the state's efforts to project itself as a leader in environmental legislation. CalStar Products Inc., a Newark, Ca. company, said shortly after receiving a federal clean energy subsidy that it expects to expand by building manufacturing plants in the Mississippi Valley. Cereplast Inc., an El Segundo, Ca., maker of renewable plastics, announced it was ‘reducing its footprint' in California to a mere 3,000 square feet and moving much of its operation to Indiana "to reduce drastically our costs compared to California from real estate to utilities," according to its CEO. Meanwhile CODA, an electric car and battery company based in Santa Monica, decided last year to build a new manufacturing facility in Ohio.

ya it is getting pretty bad here in California. The unions literally run the state.

 

[Nim Chimpsky]

ya it is getting pretty bad here in California. The unions literally run the state.

You probably meant figuratively, but can I have some data?

 

[jsc]

California is a lot like Greece. Neither is interested in the sacrifices required to restore sound fiscal practices.

Government bailout for California? I don't know. On one hand, CA is too big to fail. On the other hand, there's NY, IL, and the EU waiting in the wings with their hands out.

 

[mjmjpfaff]

You probably meant figuratively, but can I have some data?

its a known fact here that the unions are very powerful and very large. both parties need the unions support to be elected. they control the politicians like puppets. guess whos backing the high speed train that will cost about 100 billion (we are 375 billion dollars in debt). the california unions. they want the new workforce to be unionized and they will do it. by the way it will never make 100 billion dollars.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Ive also lived in Cali, and to be sure, in the valley, its a government job, or you dont do as well
In the city, its give aways, food stamps, reduced rental costs thru government placement, welfare etc.
The retirement packages are much better than the private sector, thus commitment, huge commitment down the road, ala Greece.
As they drove business after business out of California, the remaining busnesses went union to maintain higher pay standards, because of the huge impact on illegals there, many businesses were coopted into competition, artificial competition, as some businesses, or most, paid their illegals lessor pay.
As it stands now, the fruit industry, too large to fail, is mostly illegal immigrant driven

This was slowly created by those in power, the elected officials, and many were the laments of my Mexican/American friends, that said how much better is was in the old days, and know why it is so today
To get a decent pay in California, you have to be extremely selective in the private sector, or work for the government.
This obviously doesnt bode well for the state, as the private sector is the only true support for the ever growing public sector

 

[Nim Chimpsky]

its a known fact here that the unions are very powerful and very large. both parties need the unions support to be elected. they control the politicians like puppets. guess whos backing the high speed train that will cost about 100 billion (we are 375 billion dollars in debt). the california unions. they want the new workforce to be unionized and they will do it. by the way it will never make 100 billion dollars.

If it's a known fact, it should be easy to find some data. I suspect it's more of a talking point. I know unions are a force in politics, but I don't get the impression that they're all-powerful. Ask someone from Europe and they'll tell you about real unions.

 

[Nim Chimpsky]

many were the laments of my Mexican/American friends, that said how much better is was in the old days, and know why it is so today

Err... Maybe it's me, but that is a suspicious statement. I suspect that most people with Mexican-American friends don't call them all fruit-farmers to make a point.