News Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 Shows Up in Early Retail Listings

TCA_ChinChin

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Seems like pretty ridiculous pricing but gotta keep in my head that these could just be placeholder prices. If they are about right and the 4090 starts at 2000+ USD, then I guess the diy PC market truly has become a rich mans hobby. Seeing the flagships and launch cards pricing from AMD and Nvidia rising over the years definitely puts a bad taste in my mouth. I remember 10 years ago when I was excited about 500-600$ for flagship or at least higher end GPUs. Meant I could get good budget offerings for like 200$. Nowadays, 500 USD sounds like midrange pricing and there are no good budget GPUs anymore. They killed low end, budget cards, then priced everything starting from the midrange basically.

I guess that's what happens when there are only 2 GPU companies and people never stop buying even at ridiculous scalped prices.
 

Tom Sunday

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....what happens when there are only 2 GPU companies and people never stop buying even at ridiculous scalped prices.
I am the simple 'man on the street' and have my hopes parked with Intel to ultimately offering me a brand new discrete and playable gaming GPU for less than $140. Indeed the mainstream DIY PC market has truly now become a rich mans hobby. Many of us here however do all of our tech-shopping at the local computer show shuffling and pressing between the open card boxes and loaded folding tables. No sales tax and an extra 5%-10% discount as cash remains king! Much used and hobbled together from many generations ago hardware is up for 'Grab & Go' and flagship launch products are only talked about and remain indefinitely on the wish lists. Today I am having my wandering eyes on a bevy of used EVGA 980ti's for a cool $95 cash deal and as touted by the Delhi Boys from Nehru PC. I guess I am lucky to be living in a different world then the few rich hobbyists? But that is the way it is! Greetings from Stehekin, WA.
 

daworstplaya

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Yea Crypto boom is over. Nobody is going to pay those over inflated prices anymore, especially with a global recession looming. I would shocked if they try to charge over the RTX 3090 MSRP of $1399, which I thought was over inflated anyways. The MSRP of the RTX 3090 shouldn't have been no more than $1199, IMHO. If Nvidia over charges for their MSRP they can keep those cards as far as I'm concerned.
 

King_V

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Yea Crypto boom is over. Nobody is going to pay those over inflated prices anymore, especially with a global recession looming. I would shocked if they try to charge over the RTX 3090 MSRP of $1399, which I thought was over inflated anyways. The MSRP of the RTX 3090 shouldn't have been no more than $1199, IMHO. If Nvidia over charges for their MSRP they can keep those cards as far as I'm concerned.
I mostly agree... I'd say "few" rather than "nobody" because there was always that very small number of enthusiasts that have to have the best of the best, price be damned.

But they're never going to sell in the quantity that the crypto-craze created, if they try to sell at anything like crypto-craze prices.
 

JarredWaltonGPU

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I'm still of the opinion RTX 4090 will have a $1,999 MSRP. Nvidia can drop that in a few months if it needs to (like it did with RTX 3090 Ti), but rumors of the performance mean there will be early adopters more than happy to pay obscene amounts. Third-party overclocked cards will shoot for the $2,500 range at launch. I'd be happy if I'm wrong and Nvidia sticks closer to the 3090 launch MSRP of $1,499, but I doubt that will happen.

I think we'll see RTX 4080 probably at $799 for launch. It could go higher or lower, and if there's a card between the 4080 and 4090 at launch (4080 Ti) then maybe $1,199. $999 is the limit IMO for an RTX 4080 MSRP, though third party cards could exceed that. Also, I really don't like the rumors of two completely different RTX 4080 SKUs. Nvidia better not do that! A different model number is needed if one has 16GB and one has 12GB, plus different core counts. Full stop.

RTX 4070 will probably be a CES announcement, for $499 to $599. RTX 4060 more likely will be next spring, with RTX 4050 coming at the end of the summer. They'll inherit the RTX 30-series pricing, maybe with an additional $50.

My $0.02 anyway.
 

daworstplaya

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I'm still of the opinion RTX 4090 will have a $1,999 MSRP. Nvidia can drop that in a few months if it needs to (like it did with RTX 3090 Ti), but rumors of the performance mean there will be early adopters more than happy to pay obscene amounts. Third-party overclocked cards will shoot for the $2,500 range at launch. I'd be happy if I'm wrong and Nvidia sticks closer to the 3090 launch MSRP of $1,499, but I doubt that will happen.

I think we'll see RTX 4080 probably at $799 for launch. It could go higher or lower, and if there's a card between the 4080 and 4090 at launch (4080 Ti) then maybe $1,199. $999 is the limit IMO for an RTX 4080 MSRP, though third party cards could exceed that. Also, I really don't like the rumors of two completely different RTX 4080 SKUs. Nvidia better not do that! A different model number is needed if one has 16GB and one has 12GB, plus different core counts. Full stop.

RTX 4070 will probably be a CES announcement, for $499 to $599. RTX 4060 more likely will be next spring, with RTX 4050 coming at the end of the summer. They'll inherit the RTX 30-series pricing, maybe with an additional $50.

My $0.02 anyway.
I think you might be influenced by the marketing of "the performance is more, so it should cost more" fallacy. The more pragmatic perspective should be, "what does it cost for Nvidia to produce those chips with the current state of technology". Basically, if we look at history as guide, the cost to produce the top chips mostly stay the same taking inflation into account.
Eg:
980Ti GPU production cost should be close to 1080Ti GPU cost
1080Ti GPU production cost should be clsoe to 2080Ti GPU cost

And with each new generation came a performance improvement for the same price due to advancements in logic design and process improvement. The logic wasn't, "oh the 2080Ti is 35% faster than the 1080Ti so it should cost 30% more". That's not how the narrative worked and if anyone starts to follow that logic then the battle is already lost.
 
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Trident1983

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If NVidia charges this price (which I highly doubt) then people won't buy the RTX 4090 and go with AMD or stick with RTX 30 series GPUs unless the hash rate is double (300MH) of what the RTX 3090 TI (150MH) is as crypto miners even post eth merge will buy these to mine other altcoins during the 2023 crypto mining dark age being like that of 2018 here to save money on building for the next crypto mining boom. My guess is once nicehash tests Lovelace to see if they can mine at that hashrate or not then well anything goes as Nvidia didn't cap the RTX 3090 with LHR vBIOS mods back in the day to push hardware sales to gamers that didn't do crypto mining in their spare time which to me is understandable if you're trying back then to create a separate market just for gamers and content creators here. The problem was YouTubers who are gamers also crypto mine as they are lairs like Nvidia was as NV said no to them as AMD did back in 2017 doing the same thing as pc gamer did articles on this too if you google it during the last crypto mining boom before 2021.
 

Trident1983

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I think you might be influenced by the marketing of "the performance is more, so it should cost more" falacy. The more pragmatic perspective should be, "what does it cost for Nvidia to produce those chips with the current state of technology". Basically, if we look at history as guide, the cost to produce the top chips mostly stay the same taking inflation into account.
Eg:
980Ti GPU production cost should be close to 1080Ti GPU cost
1080Ti GPU production cost should be clsoe to 2080Ti GPU cost

And with each new generation came a performance improvement for the same price due to advancements in logic design and process improvement. The logic wasn't, "oh the 2080Ti is 35% faster than the 1080Ti so it should cost 30% more". That's not how the narrative worked and if anyone starts to follow that logic then the battle is already lost.
Again if the GPU does 300MH on nicehash then it's going to sell out as miner will buy them vs going to ASICs as they can resell them for a markup. ASICs can't do anything else but mine crypto and only on one algorithm vs GPUs and CPUs. So again if you are a skeptic like I am over availability and PSU needs if you plan to build a mining rig that can also do content creation and gaming on an x670E or z790 setup running two 4090s with 128GB of ddr5 ram and a 13900ks or r9 7950x3d CPU all overclocked and undervolted here as newer flagship mobo also boast usb4 for egpu support if you want not to lose the ability mine crypto while gaming or doing content creation at the same time as well then your not going to get any breaks on sticker shock going forward here as this is the new normal. sorry.
 

hannibal

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Not bad at all... $3000 for flagship GPU sounds suitable price for Nvidia next gen. Easier to sell current gen flagships at $1300 to $1500 when it is only half the price of the next gen... Well in Australia the current gen is still $2000+, so...
4060 at $1000?
 

JarredWaltonGPU

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I think you might be influenced by the marketing of "the performance is more, so it should cost more" fallacy. The more pragmatic perspective should be, "what does it cost for Nvidia to produce those chips with the current state of technology". Basically, if we look at history as guide, the cost to produce the top chips mostly stay the same taking inflation into account.
Eg:
980Ti GPU production cost should be close to 1080Ti GPU cost
1080Ti GPU production cost should be clsoe to 2080Ti GPU cost

And with each new generation came a performance improvement for the same price due to advancements in logic design and process improvement. The logic wasn't, "oh the 2080Ti is 35% faster than the 1080Ti so it should cost 30% more". That's not how the narrative worked and if anyone starts to follow that logic then the battle is already lost.
I'm not saying what I think pricing should be, but rather what it probably will be. The simple fact is that at launch, every new generation of GPU tends to be in high demand, and there will be some people willing to pay that price. So Nvidia, AMD, and their AIB partners will take advantage of that.

You're also completely overlooking the increasing costs of technology. 980 Ti had a 601mm^2 die made on a very mature TSMC 28nm node, with 6GB VRAM. 1080 Ti had a 471mm^2 die on a newer TSMC 16nm node, so the shrink in die size helped offset the added price of the chips; it also moved to 11GB. 2080 Ti moved to faster GDDR5X memory, but also went to a massive 754mm^2 die size on TSMC 12nm — a minor respin of 16nm. That was a big jump, but where things really started to cost a lot more was with the sub-10nm nodes.

RTX 30-series is made on Samsung "8nm" (respin of 10nm), moved to GDDR6X on the top GPUs, and memory on the 3090 was 24GB (more than double the 2080 Ti). The die size is 628mm^2. Big chip, more expensive node, price more or less stayed the same on MSRP, but perfect storm of Covid and crypto ruined those prices.

Now RTX 40-series is moving to a cutting-edge TSMC "4nm" node (5nm respin). It's not the absolute bleeding edge of TSMC N3, which isn't quite ready I think, even for Apple, but it's definitely a lot more costly than Samsung 8N. How big will AD102 be? If it's roughly the same 600mm^2 as GA102, price of the chips basically just doubled — not counting VRAM or anything else. If power delivery and cooling need to be able to cope with 450W or even 600W, that costs more money as well.

The general rule of thumb is that a straight 50% increase in bill of materials also means there will be at least a 50% increase in retail pricing — usually more. And as I've said before elsewhere, everyone needs a profitable slice of the pie to keep their businesses running in the black. That means about 15% for retailer, 15% for distributor, 15% for AIB partner, and 15% for AMD/Nvidia/Intel.

If a card costs $250 in raw materials to make, which is probably a reasonable estimate for something like an RTX 3070, it needs to sell for at least $437 (give or take a bit). So if raw BOM on RTX 4090 is $500, minimum retail is $875, and being the halo card that basically gets doubled (Apple pricing). RTX 4080 might only cost $450 to make and still sell for under $800 just because it's intended to be more competitive.
 
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Sep 11, 2022
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There is absolutely no way those are final prices, since the Aorus card is listed cheaper than the Gaming OC, which is lower in Gigabyte's stack. I can't speculate on what the final prices will be, but it won't be those.
 

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