TheGreatGrapeApe
Champion
- Feb 18, 2003
- 20,043
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LOL!
Yeah, you know better than that.
I have my reasons to be sceptical/critical of nV, but if ATI can't pull off reasonably competitive performance then I'll definitely go the nV route (although I do wish I had an XGI [or better still Matrox] option as an alternate). One problem though is that I would be skeptical of initial benchies until all aspects of the PCI-EX bridge versus direct are explored. The problem is I think the cards I'm interested in (PCI-EX) won't hit the stage until a fair bit after the AGP cards (like the R9800Pro-256 came long after the PRO-128.)
However, whomever wins wins, it's that simple.
To get a better understanding of my feeling think of it like football or hockey or whatever sport you follow.
My team didn't make the playoffs last season, but I've decided this past series to favour one team because I like the way they play and their results (no denying the results). As I believe my team is once again going to miss the playoffs this round, I will likely follow/buy whichever one does best. Hey while I'm not worried about price, I'm not wasting my coin simply to avoid having to get a new case badge for my system. I think you're simply being a little defensive of your choice. :tongue:
Whoa, talk about Cheerleading, the part isn't even out yet! :tongue:
The Fact is ATI 'won' last round, thus garnered most of the support and glory. Whomever 'wins' the next round will probably get alot of current users from the 'losing' camp. I would tend to think that the majority of people here will follow that treand, however I'm sure there may be some holdouts.
I might end up being a holdout under two conditions; ATI has close enough performance across the board as to be toe to toe with the nV products (like the R9600XT and FX5700U in DX8 titles) if the difference is 1-2 fps, <i>OR</i> if ATI loses in the AGP performance, but ties/wins in PCI-EX performance, in either scenario I'll stick with ATI for the time being (and see how they handle returning to the underdog/follower position). Otherwise I'll go to nV (though like I said I might wait for the TRUE PCI-EX cards [NV45/43], should the bridge not look like a good idea).
Whatever else you may think, if you think I'm going to waste my money, then you really haven't heard anything I've said around here about buying the cards that fit people's needs. Also I'm making sure I don't waste my Beer & HO money!
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
kinney
Distinguished
- Sep 24, 2001
- 2,263
- 18
- 19,785
LOL, Im just yankin yer chain as usual.
Pisses me off you dont bite as much anymore.
About the bridge, I dont really find it a big deal.
If it makes the card slower than the ATI, then fine its a bad deal :lol: , but if it doesnt impede performance... I dont really care if its a 'true' implementation or not.
I'm getting a AGP model anyway. I plan on dumping money on the fastest NV40 if it is as great as it sounds.
I suspect it is going to be, it'll be nice to have a more PO'd NV this round and not let ATI run away with it so easily.
As long as it means more performance, for a cheaper price.
I think we have two capable companies in the 'game' finally.
3dfx was capable but obviously had shortcomings somewhere in the company..
the others arent worth mentioning IMO.
----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
Pisses me off you dont bite as much anymore.
About the bridge, I dont really find it a big deal.
If it makes the card slower than the ATI, then fine its a bad deal :lol: , but if it doesnt impede performance... I dont really care if its a 'true' implementation or not.
I'm getting a AGP model anyway. I plan on dumping money on the fastest NV40 if it is as great as it sounds.
I suspect it is going to be, it'll be nice to have a more PO'd NV this round and not let ATI run away with it so easily.
As long as it means more performance, for a cheaper price.
I think we have two capable companies in the 'game' finally.
3dfx was capable but obviously had shortcomings somewhere in the company..
the others arent worth mentioning IMO.
----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
phial
Splendid
- Oct 29, 2002
- 6,757
- 0
- 25,780
*Disclaimer*
Kinney will praise Nvidia as if he were sleeping with the CEO. Please, do take his posts with a grain of salt. Example:
.. meanwhile it has been proven that the 9600XT is generally as fast (save for a few nV optimized, like UT2003, and some older games) in current games as the 5700u, and do I really need to explain how it compares in DX9 games?
sure, if you get the expensive 5700u, you could o/c to 900mhz ram.. but for that much money, you could get a 9800nonpro so whats the point
. midrange ownage, not nearly as you desscribe it
-------
<A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">please dont click here! </A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phial on 02/27/04 11:38 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Kinney will praise Nvidia as if he were sleeping with the CEO. Please, do take his posts with a grain of salt. Example:
.. meanwhile it has been proven that the 9600XT is generally as fast (save for a few nV optimized, like UT2003, and some older games) in current games as the 5700u, and do I really need to explain how it compares in DX9 games?
sure, if you get the expensive 5700u, you could o/c to 900mhz ram.. but for that much money, you could get a 9800nonpro so whats the point
. midrange ownage, not nearly as you desscribe it-------
<A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">please dont click here! </A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phial on 02/27/04 11:38 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
TheGreatGrapeApe
Champion
- Feb 18, 2003
- 20,043
- 0
- 50,960
The thing is that the bridge won't likely have any effect on anything but the top cards (and thus for me it's no a benifit for future cards they if anything WOULD have issues, and may be a detraction now (depending on optimization for the advanatages of the PCI-EX, but maybe not).
For the FX5200 and whatever the ATI low end will be (RV370), I doubt it would even come close to affecting it, it would be like 4x vs 8x now, nothing of much consequence.
Main thing is I hope that the PCI-EX cards offer enough to make me feel comfortable about all my anticipation.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
For the FX5200 and whatever the ATI low end will be (RV370), I doubt it would even come close to affecting it, it would be like 4x vs 8x now, nothing of much consequence.
Main thing is I hope that the PCI-EX cards offer enough to make me feel comfortable about all my anticipation.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
eden
Champion
- Oct 3, 2001
- 26,549
- 0
- 50,780
Yeah, 16 pipes will mean nothing. Don't yall remember? Fillrate is SO out, shader power is in!
Pfft, the FX5800 Ultra had a lovely huge fillrate (was it 4 or 5000?), and it never helped.
It's how the shaders work, how optimized they are, how the pipeline is divided that will matter. And for once, at least make longer pipelines, you goddamn companies. Longer pipelines = higher clock speeds. And daym, we're still at 400MHZ lately! Imagine 1GHZ! Sure, they would lose some IPC, but then again, that's only if cards need branch prediction that much. To me it seems they work full time when on load, so I dunno if it's such a problem. I'm not even aware if data dependancy is such a thing for video cards as on CPUs.
--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
Johanthegnarler
Distinguished
- Nov 24, 2003
- 895
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- 18,980
Basically if NVidia can make a leading card again, and show that it can handle high ass temps like the 5950 then i'll buy it.
<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=745781941" target="_new">http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=745781941</A>
43k mark. 85 dollars went a long way.
<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=745781941" target="_new">http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=745781941</A>
43k mark. 85 dollars went a long way.
TheGreatGrapeApe
Champion
- Feb 18, 2003
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Yeah it would be nicer to have longer pipes (flamethrower can probably add something about that ).
One drawback though seems to be performance at those speeds. The PRescott is like 30 stages compared to the Northwood's 20; yet clock for clock the Northwood is currently outperforming. However perhaps we need to see optimizations for that to achieve better results. I can only imagine what a VPU/GPU would achieve with extra stages. The Prescott exceeding 10ghz is very enticing. A VPU even getting 20% of that would be sweet. The thing is that alot of it is also held back by heat generation, hopefully the 0.11 and 0.09 cores will offer some headroom with that respect (although likely they'll crank them to the Nth degree as always.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
).One drawback though seems to be performance at those speeds. The PRescott is like 30 stages compared to the Northwood's 20; yet clock for clock the Northwood is currently outperforming. However perhaps we need to see optimizations for that to achieve better results. I can only imagine what a VPU/GPU would achieve with extra stages. The Prescott exceeding 10ghz is very enticing. A VPU even getting 20% of that would be sweet. The thing is that alot of it is also held back by heat generation, hopefully the 0.11 and 0.09 cores will offer some headroom with that respect (although likely they'll crank them to the Nth degree as always.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
eden
Champion
- Oct 3, 2001
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Problem is they're going to be twice or thrice the transistor amount of the best desktop CPU out there (either Opteron or Prescott), hence the heat. Plus it must eat a lot of wafers easily, so many costs. 210 million transistors, damn! That's HOT!
As for stages, theoretically speaking you can't lose IPC over stage increases, but practically speaking it's the opposite, thanks to misses and pipeline bubbles more frequent. I doubt it's as bad on GPUs though. But for Prescott, it must be because its fetching algorithms are not too good or fast enough to recover the misses and bubbles, plus the need for improved branch prediction. If it did work right, it would not have lost IPC. Not when it has SO MANY goddamn improvements in the architecture itself! (1MB L2 cache plus 16K L1 cache and other minor tidbits plus SSE3 (PNI))
--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over <font color=red>62</font color=red> no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
As for stages, theoretically speaking you can't lose IPC over stage increases, but practically speaking it's the opposite, thanks to misses and pipeline bubbles more frequent. I doubt it's as bad on GPUs though. But for Prescott, it must be because its fetching algorithms are not too good or fast enough to recover the misses and bubbles, plus the need for improved branch prediction. If it did work right, it would not have lost IPC. Not when it has SO MANY goddamn improvements in the architecture itself! (1MB L2 cache plus 16K L1 cache and other minor tidbits plus SSE3 (PNI))
--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over <font color=red>62</font color=red> no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
He has a point more transistors usually equal more power draw which usually equals more heat output. But with the larger silicon size you increase the surface area thus increase the heat dissapation. In theory the NV40 could be cooler if they dont crank the GPU core beyond 700Mhz (just a guess). Since faster transistors switching always leads to higher heat output.
But the prescott kinda supports that theory. But well have to wait and see. I personally dont think Nvidia reworked the entire Nv40 specs from the original 8x2 specs that floated around early last year. But hey I'm a Nvidia user I guess in theory they could pull this off.
Xeon
But the prescott kinda supports that theory. But well have to wait and see. I personally dont think Nvidia reworked the entire Nv40 specs from the original 8x2 specs that floated around early last year. But hey I'm a Nvidia user I guess in theory they could pull this off.
Xeon
eden
Champion
- Oct 3, 2001
- 26,549
- 0
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Go to the OTHER, we can sekz.
--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over <font color=red>62</font color=red> no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over <font color=red>62</font color=red> no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:
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