Nvidia, please, give it a rest.

[sportsfanboy]

And stupid people have multiplied! Every see the movie "Idiocracy"? Need I say more?

All around the world only stupid people are breeding... What band sings that?

 

[L1qu1d]

lol I wish I sang that! LOL

 

[apache_lives]

Just ran across this gem from another website.

http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MzE1NjYsLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdCwsLDE=

I'd just like to say this is just nuts. G80. G92. 3 different GTS cards. 9800GTX with smaller memory stats then the 8800GTX that it replaces. The 8800GS that fits in ??? And now all of these changes? They might be making solid cards, but how are we supposed to know which on the good ones with this horrible naming scheme? I'm sure even Nvidia fanboys would admit that AMDs scheme is better...

Come on Nvidia. Stop releasing new names and start releasing new cards!

And the competition hasnt done this?

Nvidia was waiting for a nut buster from ATI to compete and got a re-badged half a$$ card instead (which mind you got closer, and the dual card hit the spot) but nothing new - why release a new card when the old card is competing well? But from what i hear, Nvidia has a new series waiting for competition - the GT200, that might be the real 9 series (9900GTX etc?). Wait and see.....

Wonder what ATI has in mind to match, could be interesting seeing all this cpu and video smarts come together finally...

 

[4745454b]

And the competition hasnt done this?

Not currently. There was the nasty GTO business with the x800/1800 series, but AMD currently has a solid naming scheme. 3870x2> 3870> 3850> 3650> whatever card(s) is lower then that. Same was true with the 2x00 series. If AMD/ATI did this in the past, they don't seem to currently do it.

And this is what I'm complaining about. I understand their desire to re badge poor sellers and sell them as the and improved. What I would like is an easier naming scheme so that when someone comes in and says what video card, the proper one is on the tip of my tongue. Or if Nvidia prefers, I can just suggest AMD video cards, that would be a lot easier.

 

[MasterPJ]

I wish Tomshardware VGA Charts 2007 would update with all these new cards

And had a few more games to compare (like COD4 and C&C)

 

[apache_lives]

And the competition hasnt done this?

Not currently. There was the nasty GTO business with the x800/1800 series, but AMD currently has a solid naming scheme. 3870x2> 3870> 3850> 3650> whatever card(s) is lower then that. Same was true with the 2x00 series. If AMD/ATI did this in the past, they don't seem to currently do it.

And this is what I'm complaining about. I understand their desire to re badge poor sellers and sell them as the and improved. What I would like is an easier naming scheme so that when someone comes in and says what video card, the proper one is on the tip of my tongue. Or if Nvidia prefers, I can just suggest AMD video cards, that would be a lot easier.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/15/amd_radeon_hd_3800/page5.html

"Contrary to what their name may imply, let's right away cut through the marketing smoke screen, which AMD couldn't resist to pull once more; no, the Radeon HD 3000 does not introduce a new architecture at all, neither is it an important evolution compared to the Radeon HD 2900. Those cards' name should have started with Radeon HD 2xxx and nothing else (as did the Radeon 1900 in its time, and even they were a bigger evolution), and it's disappointing to see to what extent the company has a tendency to rely on this kind of method every time it's in a difficult position, just as it did in other areas at the time of the Radeon HD 2900 presentation. Moving on."

 

[4745454b]

But AMD is at least consistent. They didn't bring an old 2xxx series card back as a 3xxxx series card. All of the three series cards (3650 or higher, not sure about the lower cards) are die shrinks of 2 series cards. They didn't just simply relabel the 2900xt the 3870. They did a die shrink which allowed the chip to run cooler and consume less power. Sure, they could have called it the 2950XT instead, but they decided to switch to 3 series. For the record, there are also changes in the chip, as the 3870 supports UVD, while the 2900 series does not.

I would like to stress again that AMD is being consistent with their naming scheme. They changed their highend card slightly and came out with the 3870. They tweaked their mid range card and came out with the 3650. They didn't just slap a new name on it and bump it up to a 3 series.

 

[rgsaunders]

Dragoncyber
Despite what you appear to think, the world of personal computing was alive and well before you got involved. It would stand you in good stead to do a little research on the realities of the evolution of personal computing, notably with regard to video developements. Those of us who started with computers in the late 60's have a mature appreciation of the developements by a myriad of companies over the years, notably during the 80s and 90s. nVidia is a relative latecomer to the game, building on the succeses of earlier companies.

 

[enewmen]

Not sure why Nvidia would be waiting for AMD/ATI to catch up when the 3870x2 was the fastest card available until the GX2 was released.

Good point.
There will also be a next-gen RV770 ATI card before nvidia releases their g200.

 

[hannibal]

Good point.
There will also be a next-gen RV770 ATI card before nvidia releases their g200.

There is always better income when selling old cards... less chips that don't work.
The 3870X2 was two chip configuration, so no need release new technology.... just make your own two chip solution aka 9800GX2.
There is always extra cost and risk when making whole new chip. If you don't have to do it, don't do it... And the 8800 series has been good enough for Nvidia. If the RV770 is any good, the g200 will come out soon after that. If the RV770 is not so good... there is no hurry with g200. The only thing that would chance that would be that g200 is substantially cheaper to produce than g92, and that is something I don't believe in...
Nvidia believes in one "superchip" design, so the g200 is not cheap to produce, compared to ATI's multible cheap chips ideology. One superchip should be faster solution, but there is the cost.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

There is always better income when selling old cards... less chips that don't work.
The 3870X2 was two chip configuration, so no need release new technology.... just make your own two chip solution aka 9800GX2.
There is always extra cost and risk when making whole new chip. If you don't have to do it, don't do it... And the 8800 series has been good enough for Nvidia. If the RV770 is any good, the g200 will come out soon after that. If the RV770 is not so good... there is no hurry with g200. The only thing that would chance that would be that g200 is substantially cheaper to produce than g92, and that is something I don't believe in...
Nvidia believes in one "superchip" design, so the g200 is not cheap to produce, compared to ATI's multible cheap chips ideology. One superchip should be faster solution, but there is the cost.

I can see ATI taking this direction, not having to go too far too fast. But not nVidia. The merging technologies of gpu-cpu should only hasten nVidias product design, not slow it. If thered be one thing thatd slow the production of Larrabee/Fusion cpu/gpu raytracing, it would be a hugely improved discrete gpu. To think that theres better out there only because someone switched a label on a card is wrong, and it doesnt help in the scenario Ive described above. This is no time for nVidia to either confuse consumers or alienate them

 

[L1qu1d]

Nvidia isn't waiting for AMD to catch, theres no point really to advance since AMD is really far behind. The 3870 X2 was not the fastest card. When filtering was enabled it dropped lower than the Ultra. So its consistency is really bad.

Plus what you guys don't realize is that the 9800 GTX is as fast/faster (sometimes below the Ultra at high res) but is more THAN HALF the price, at 300. I think thats a pretty good deal, PLUS less power consumption.

So don't give me that bull crap about nvidia not advancing, Speaking of consistency, AMD has name consistency but not performance...I'd rather have a good product then to have a faulty one with a different name.

IE, Phenon 9000 series (not the 50s), 2900 XT (Unfortunatly), 2600 XT, all very low for the money spent.

The only card I've seen by ATI/AMD that was worth wild was the 3870 X2 (if ANYTHING).

I'm not trying to knock on any1 or trying to put people down, since I am a ATI/AMD fan (recently converted, for obvious reasons), but I really don't see any movement for the company. They better do it before Nvidia and Intel hold the Monopoly

 

[John Vuong]

I don't get it, why can't NVIDIA just make a good card and just bury ATI/AMD already? Why wait for them to catch up? Whats the whole point in that?

 

[L1qu1d]

Ati/AMD is on the verge of bankruptcy, why plow a lot of money when its not needed?

It's just business

 

[EXT64]

Well, I wouldn't give up on AMD/ATI completely yet. I can't see them screwing up twice.

As to the original argument it was mostly about breaking the naming convention. Really they both should have done this:

For ATI: 2900xt -> 2800XT 3850 -> 2900XT 3870 -> 2900XTX

For NVidia: 9-series -> 8900 series

Die shrinks/improvements shouldn't be a new series. They both thought that they could get more sales with the renaming (and they were probably correct).

 

[blackwater11]

Very funny how in contrast apache_lives.. your attempt at comparing the naming scheme of re-naming the 8xxx series to 9xxx series for Nvidia against the 2xxx series to the 3xxx series is. Even though I own an 8800GTS 640, I think it is necessary to put this into perspective.

Besides a die shrink there have been notable differences in the capabilities of the 3xxx series that you must have overlooked.

From the Sapphire website:

Unshackle your PC's performance from the coin in your pocket as the SAPPHIRE HD 3870 liberates your inner gamer without compromising your wallet. Hard pressed to find a comparable product on the market for the price, the SAPPHIRE HD 3870 extinguishes all doubt that the Radeon HD 3870 core is a mid-range performing product. With features such as: DirectX® 10.1 and Shader Model 4.1 support, integrated HDMI and HDCP support for Blu-ray™/HD DVD decoding and for the extreme enthusiast, CrossFire X™ support, the SAPPHIRE incarnation of the HD 3870 will own your imagination and accelerate your performance on the virtual battlefield of your desktop! Reinvent the way you engage your gaming experience with every LOAD!

PCI Express 2.0 x16 bus interface
DirectX® 10.1 support
CrossFire X™ support
ATI PowerPlay™
Hardware processed 1080p video playback of Blu-ray™ and HD DVDs

The ability to hybrid the 3 series cards is also an addition to the new capability of ATI but I saved it for last because I know you are going to tell us how we can now through the thoughtful insight of Nvidia SLI 3 of their cards for marginal improvement at best.

Many of these specs were not available in the 2xxx series but for argument sake you must have thought it necessary to come up with some BULL%$&# of your own to detract attention away from the fact that Nvidia has tried to pulled the curtain over our eyes with the new and improved 9800GX2/GTX!

I have more respect for a company that has shown respect for it's customer base instead of trying to re-name old technology.

Furthermore, and this is a known fact - Nvidia's GPU's have always selected the frames from the application that they choose to display so rendering the most difficult frames are left out. ATI's GPU's process and render every frame so I can understand the gap in performance.. This is why the picture quality / visuals are better with ATI.

This is the part where Nvidia sends it's diatribe of (paid off) forum fan boys to defend against the intelligence which knocks loudly at the door.

BW11

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

ATIs current growth in the gpu market is a positive, and thats mostly without the help of the 3xxx series. Its mobile is climing as well, as concerning market share. And, like was said earlier, if the 4xxx series comes before nVidias offerings, and with the 780G chipset, nVidia has all it can handle as it is, without all this confusion. Going bankrupt or not, AMD is giving nVidia a hard time in the overall graphics market, as theyve also made inroads into professional gpu market. nVidia needs to release something that actually makes a cause for a renaming/numbering, not all this old hat redo stuff

 

[EXT64]

It'll be iteresting to see how the 780G/8200 integrated battle plays out. As mentioned, that is where the real money is. If NVidia loses there, ATI will be in good shape.

 

[4745454b]

While I disagree with some of BW11's post, hopefully it helps show why the 3 series wasn't labeled as 2x50. I pointed out one difference, thanks for the others. (his well known fact isn't well known to me.)

So don't give me that bull crap about nvidia not advancing

I never said that. I said they are confusing their clients by not developing one naming scheme, and sticking with it. By labeling the 8600GT a 9500, I might forget that at some point and tell someone to get it. AMDs 4650 would probably be a better performer however. This is what I'm complaining about, its more work for me!

I'm not (directly) attacking the company, I'm not attacking the cards. The naming scheme has to go. I hope the link is wrong. Nvidia, if you are reading this, stop the madness.

 

[L1qu1d]

wasn't directing it to u, just generally speaking.

Your just attacking a company that has done nothing different from any others. Remember Ati and the 9500??? then they had the 9550 which was pure crap. Trying to trick ppl into buying th 9550 because it has an extra 50 in the name

So don't just attack nvidia of this, I mean its happeneing every where. X800 pro, SE, XL, XT....GTO do these names come to mind???

Every company does this

The only consistency I see is in CPUs and their names. Naming the product is the essence of a flourishing market, I'm not going to say nvidia is doing something bad, but I am going to say that business strives on people's lack of knowledge.

So please don't Isolate Nvidia, I think this Forum should be named "Companies please stop making so many model versions!!!"

 

[blackwater11]

My shovel is not big enough!

 

[4745454b]

I'm not attacking a company, I'm begging them to stop.

I do know the "X800 pro, SE, XL, XT....GTO" I don't see where you are going with that. You do have a case with the 9550. AMD doesn't really have a confusing naming scheme anymore. No more GTOs, no more 9550. They made changes to the arch, they went with 3 instead of 2x50. They didn't just relabel the 2600XT the 3650, they tweaked it and called it something else. They might have made some poor choices before (9550), but they (currently) seem to have fixed this.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Look, I love the nVidia 8 & 9 series, but theres several posts here asking about which 8. is 8a better than 8b or will 9a be better? And what about 9b? Ive been ignoring them, its just too hard to explain to people that dont have the background of alllllllll these changes

 

[randomizer]

Just repeat after me: "9600GT". Good, good. Now say "FTW". Excellent!

 

[imrul]

damn....