Nvidia Points Finger at AMD's Image Quality Cheat

[ryoohki]

I left ATI when they screwed HDMI output with 10.8 and 10.9 and had all sort of problems with Crossfire. Been SLI 460gtx since august and it's been perfect all along, no hickup whatsoever..

 

[bhaberle]

This is why I skip the benchmark suites and just pay attention to actual game fps performance, etc.

 

[Syranetic]

[citation][nom]chaoski[/nom]And Nvidia pays MILLIONS to developers to make their cards perform better in games....until the game comes out and AMD update drivers.I'm no fanboi and like whatever is best bang for the buck....which Nvidia has been winning lately (it seems)....but Nvidias deceptive business decisions/moves REALLY turn me off more than ANYTHING AMD can ever do.[/citation]

Yeah, NVIDIA sure are a bunch of jerks for getting dozens of publishers and developers to work with them in optimizing their game titles so they don't come out as a shitty PC port. Having more PC specific features for my games sucks too... Oh wait you're talking out your ass? Nevermind.

Take any game from nvidia's the way its meant to be played program and tell me how there is a bias on the game optimization on an nvidia card over AMD...

Why isn't AMD investing all these bucks like nvidia to motivate all these developers to do more with their PC titles?

 

[ProDigit10]

I don't really mind the 'cheat' to be honest.
For years Intel graphics cards could keep up with the speed of certain games, because they did not have dynamic lighting support, and dynamic (hi res) shadow support; as well as showing water surfaces way more simple than the then ATI and NVidia cards (I'm talking about the AGP generation).

The little loss in quality allowed the intel cards to maintain minimum framerate,unlike the (much more powerful) ATI and NVIDIA entry series graphics cards, that due to their image complexity sometimes had to compromise framerates for quality.
On those cards it was more important to have playable framerates, than advanced graphics but at a too low fps.

 

[Guest]

I can't believe people are that afraid of competition to stoop as low as this.

 

[compfreak93]

[citation][nom]bustapr[/nom]As long as I get more frames with less money the difference in image quality mentioned here is unnoticable. Ive never really noticed any difference in the new cards when compared to nvidia 4xx cards. And who in their right mind plays anything dx10 on a screen with less than 500 pixels on the side... And if you have the balls to buy a 68xx card, you most likely have a screen with more than 1000 side pixels...Lol, whenever Nvidia throws something at AMD, AMD always seems to throw something harder at Nvidia... waiting to see the response[/citation]

This is so true, nvidia knows its getting destroyed by ATI and theyre trying to find any reason to turn people off.

 

[chechak]

Nvidia haters as all ways !
...any why AMD drivers use cheap "cheats" ...what a LAM
FTW Nvidia
ya iam Nvidia fanboy ...liek it or not !

 

[spentshells]

500 pixels ? nice eveidence

 

[Guest]

I see a lot of AMD fanboys in these comments. I suppose your faboyism is great enough to ignore the fact AMD has been lying to customers and review sites by cheating the benchmarking tools.

If nVidia did the same thing(they did once and learned their lesson) the AMD camp would be up in arms about the uneven playing field.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, AMD jock huggers.

 

[DjEaZy]

... just have thee questions: AND? SO? WHAT?...

 

[iLLz]

AMD fanboys aggravate me to no end. I seriously don't care for either company as they are all a bunch of bickering idiots but I DO care about the products they sell.

AMD does this and everyone still rips nVidia and not any of you said anything about AMD actually cheating.

When nVidia did this a while back it was outright blasphemy.

AMD fanboys are turning into Linux users. They are more vocal because there are less of em. So if anyone puts AMD in an article title, then a flock of sheep come in to rescue AMD and back nVidia.

Get real they cheated and they should be blasted for it and made away it won't stand anymore.

/rant

 

[notsonoobPCguy]

@Syranetic wow your a real jerk, fan boy much? The developers choose either to make a bad or good port not nNvida or AMD. Nvidia puts their name in for advertising, and maybe give developers like 2K a little extra for including Physx. Why be sarcastic? This isn't a dusche bag competition. ATi makes better cards and they don't waste time and money showing off, unlike nVidia. Game making is all up to the developers nVidia pays extra to have games customized to perform better on their cards. Anyways I rather give to ATi because they are a smaller company and nVidia is a corperate greedy giant.

 

[iam2thecrowe]

[citation][nom]TheRabidDeer[/nom]What AMD is doing is lying in benchmarks to appear better. So when the benchmark says you get 5 FPS more than an nvidia card you would actually be getting the same FPS in a real situation. But, if you are told that a certain card is better, which one are you going to buy? These image quality settings are only being done in benchmarks, which is straight up wrong.[/citation]
How the hell is it AMD's fault then? It is the reviewers fault since they didnt bother to check the settings. AMD can use whatever default settings they like in their driver/control panel. Its up to the reviewers to test the cards fairly.

 

[jimmysmitty]

[citation][nom]anacandor[/nom]Nvidia should be spending their time improving their own products, not delving into AMD's "cheat" drivers. Nvidia is turning the GPU market into some pre election ad campaign...[/citation]

They just have way too much free time on their hands. A few months ago nVidia was all over Intel and about how bad they are yadda yadda.

nVidia will never focus on their GPUs fully again until the management changes.

But if this IS true, I don't like it. I would prefer that AMD push the GPUs to be faster while delivering the same quality. Or be cheaper, almost as fast and same quality.

 

[dragonsqrrl]

[citation][nom]anacandor[/nom]Nvidia should be spending their time improving their own products, not delving into AMD's "cheat" drivers. Nvidia is turning the GPU market into some pre election ad campaign...[/citation]
Ya... cause AMD hasn't spent any time or money exposing Nvidia driver cheats to the press. I mean come on, really?? Are we done putting ATI/AMD up on a pedestal yet?

 

[dragonsqrrl]

[citation][nom]Syranetic[/nom]Why isn't AMD investing all these bucks like nvidia to motivate all these developers to do more with their PC titles?[/citation]
Because you have a biased understanding of how the graphics card industry functions?
I suggest reading NotsonoobPCguy's comment above for more accuracy.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Sounds like the democrats and republicans with both sides screaming "It's OK when we do it but it's unfair and underhanded for you to point it out when we do it".

 

[notsonoobPCguy]

Ha thanks dragonsqrrl for agreeing with me on that issue. I think nVidia is top caught up in the prebuilt market ie Dell and Alienware who sell PCs to people who probably haven't even seen the inside of a PC ever and who go like "oh it's in my alienware is must be good"

 

[aznshinobi]

[citation][nom]reynod[/nom]Nvidia remind me of North Korea ... run by a small minded despot surrounded by yes men who focus on covering up their own dirty deeds (sinking ships, shelling innocents)[/citation]

Umm... They aren't all like that... If you refering to the attacks on South Korean soil, Kim Jong Il was the only reason they didn't fight before. Now he's dead and the government has no one to keep them in check =P Just what I hear off China Television.

 

[dragonsqrrl]

[citation][nom]iLLz[/nom]AMD fanboys aggravate me to no end. I seriously don't care for either company as they are all a bunch of bickering idiots but I DO care about the products they sell.AMD does this and everyone still rips nVidia and not any of you said anything about AMD actually cheating.When nVidia did this a while back it was outright blasphemy. AMD fanboys are turning into Linux users. They are more vocal because there are less of em. So if anyone puts AMD in an article title, then a flock of sheep come in to rescue AMD and back nVidia. Get real they cheated and they should be blasted for it and made away it won't stand anymore./rant[/citation]
It's interesting how one of the principle AMD backup arguments in this thread is, 'Nvidia did it first, so it's justifiable for AMD to do it now'. And then they try to point the fanboy finger at someone else...

Nvidia cheated with their drivers over 7 years ago, and at the time they were rightfully railed for it. But now... well, it's somehow okay because AMD is doing it? Or does it cancel out because Nvidia advertises their logo on a few games?

 

[dragonsqrrl]

[citation][nom]NotsonoobPCguy[/nom]Ha thanks dragonsqrrl for agreeing with me on that issue. I think nVidia is top caught up in the prebuilt market ie Dell and Alienware who sell PCs to people who probably haven't even seen the inside of a PC ever and who go like "oh it's in my alienware is must be good"[/citation]
It's a good point. Just wanted to point out a comment that's probably a lot closer to reality then the majority of the others in this thread.

 

[notsonoobPCguy]

About the whole benchmark thing, I along with a coupons other posters on tuis thread think that it is the testers fault. Not a biggie though, I say just look for the card that's in your price range and if it doesn't perform the way you want it to just send it back :3 that's how I benchmark

 

[dragonsqrrl]

[citation][nom]gurboura[/nom]It seems nVidia is just looking for something. They say the drivers disable optimizations on windows smaller than 500 pixels on a side, which is probably why AMD did it, when was the last time someone played a game that was smaller than 500 pixels on one side? If you did, does your card really need to do optimizations on that game when you are not going to be noticing it? No, it doesn't. I would consider it a cheat if it was a game, played in full screen, at the highest allowable resolution for the monitor, and the card disabled optimizations.[/citation]
I'm not sure you understand what is meant by "optimizations". I would probably read through the article one more time. By "optimizations", they mean that at basically any resolution, the drivers will by default lower in-game IQ in order to artificially inflate performance figures.

 

[mcg75]

This appears to be true and instead of AMD being given the message that this is not acceptable, we have their fanboys come in here to righteously defend them. Pretty soon Nvidia will be forced to play the same hanky panky and then we will all lose.

Good job everyone.

 

[gurboura]

[citation][nom]dragonsqrrl[/nom]I'm not sure you understand what is meant by "optimizations". I would probably read through the article one more time. By "optimizations", they mean that at basically any resolution, the drivers will by default lower in-game IQ in order to artificially inflate performance figures.[/citation]
Where does it say that? It says that for FP16 only. It's 6 applications AMD said they optimized for. 6. I think you should re-read the article.

For example with DX10 and 68xx boards, it seems they disable optimizations with window sizes smaller than 500 pixels on a side. For DX9 apps like the AF Tester, the limit is higher, on the order of 1000 pixels per side.