Nvidia Releases Windows 8 WHQL Driver for Desktop GPUs

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Long[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]The timeline difference between Vista and XP was a fluke. Prior to it, there were 2-3 year spreads between new Windows operating systems, at the most. Besides, it's not like MS did nothing between releasing XP and releasing Vista. There were the service packs, Windows XP MCE, Windows XP x64, etc. etc. Besides, Windows 8 isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Just install a free start menu program and it's pretty good. The underlying advantages that Windows 8 have make it almost worth it even without the start menu, but since the start menu is easy to get back, that's not a problem at all. I have no doubt that Windows 8 will outsell Vista, albeit maybe slowly at first.[/citation]

You're right. Longhorn was due to come out in 2004 - 3 years after XP. But due to the security issues in XP, they had to pull developers from Longhorn to get it stable. The features in Longhorn, like WinFS, never worked properly because they just didn't have the talent to deal with the bugs. After the production delays, they scrapped Longhorn and started over - with Vista. It had SOME of the features of Longhorn (like the new, and vastly improved security and deployment models), but features like WinFS couldn't be implemented in a stable manner, so it was dropped. They dropped the ball on it with OEM's because it took an additional 2 years to finish. Windows NEEDED better security, and the NT-era file-based deployment was vastly out of date. In hindsight, they actually accomplished a big release (Vista) in a relatively short amount of time, which is not what OEM's like. They like to see new major OS versions with lots of preview time. That didn't happen during Vista's release. Also, when you look at Windows 7, it's a fairly pedestrian update to Vista.

Microsoft likes to play tick-tock in their product cycles like Intel - first release a new OS with major new features, then polish it in the next release. This has happened time and time again with NT 3.x to 4.0, Windows 2000 to XP, Vista to 7, 95-98 (Me was a fluke). They are also looking at current trends in computing and taking full advantage of it. At the risk of alienating a lot of the Tom's crowd here, the trends are that desktops are dying and mobile is increasing. BYOD is a big part of it, as is cloud computing. If you said Microsoft didn't get cloud computing a couple years ago, you'd probably be right, but 2012 is a year where Microsoft is going to push cloud computing so hard that you're going to feel left out of the technology loop if you don't have a 3+Mbps connection yet. Windows Server 2012 is pretty much "All Cloud, All the time", and "infrastructure" will just be something to manage users on corporate cloud platforms. Notebooks have consistently outsold desktops for some 3+ years now too, and slate tablets are ballooning. Desktops are a niche. They may not have been in the past, but they certainly are now. There is some good news in software licensing though: Microsoft is changing the EULA terms for software in the system builder channel though: enthusiasts will be able to legally purchase and use "OEM software" (it's actually system builder software) for their own use, on a computer that they build themself. You will no longer have to resell the computer to a third-party which is the way the EULA was worded before. Of course, if you're testing the RC, you do qualify for upgrade rights to the RTM too, so you can take advantage of the $40 upgrade too. Costs of servers is going up, but software prices will include better rights than traditional Win32 software because Metro apps on the Windows Store will includes rights to 5 device installs. Just don't expect pro software like Adobe or Autodesk stuff to go Metro any time soon though, since even they would be required to follow those rules. The UI is simpler for basic stuff though. The vast majority of users on Windows are adults that don't know enough about how to maintain a PC, and their kids that don't know any better. Windows 8 is for them. For BYOD users, Windows RT will support Metro apps, but also RDP for desktop apps in the corporate workplace. There's a self-service portal for software installs in Windows Server 2012 that is built for Windows 8 and RT too. It's so simple, but elegant at the same time. And if your Mom doesn't know how to use a computer (like mine!) she'll find it simple. Desktop games will still play just fine on x86, but you'll get faster bootup and loadtimes with the optimized SSD support, along with DX11.1. Launching games will be simple what with being able to group legacy icons in a Games group of tiles on the Start Screen. I know there will be Metro apps that anyone will want to load up, if for nothing more than the sake of better resource management and security available to them. Metro IE is a good example. You've got a simple web browser that won't support plugins, but still does ad and tracking protection, and so you won't get hit by Java and Flash exploits (even Flash is only permitted on whitelisted sites), nor will you be hit by websites trying to install ump-teen browser toolbars, like those pesky Conduit Engine Community Toolbar pieces of shit. For $40, it's a good deal. AND it's the Pro version too!
 
I haven't tried the latest drivers yet for Windows 8, but previous drivers have been very bad or simply not working. In my opinion the video driver problem may put a dent in the release of Windows 8 it the video card makers don't get their act together. What about all of the older video cards? likely there will never be a graphics driver for them.
 
[citation][nom]pjmelect[/nom]I haven't tried the latest drivers yet for Windows 8, but previous drivers have been very bad or simply not working. In my opinion the video driver problem may put a dent in the release of Windows 8 it the video card makers don't get their act together. What about all of the older video cards? likely there will never be a graphics driver for them.[/citation]

Windows 8 prefers newer cards for maximum acceleration compatibility anyway. Besides, we're all whining about driver support for an unreleased platform right now. This is a kinda worthless argument at this time.
 
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]Windows 8 prefers newer cards for maximum acceleration compatibility anyway. Besides, we're all whining about driver support for an unreleased platform right now. This is a kinda worthless argument at this time.[/citation]

Not true. Windows 8's minimum requirement for video acceleration are the same as the 6-year old Windows Vista. That is, any chip supporting at least DirectX9 support will get automatic acceleration by the OS. In fact, ARM chipsets only need DX9 support to meet certification requirements. x86 platforms are expected to meet higher DX specs to be certified - I forget which version, but it isn't DX11.1, which is the maximum supported by the OS out of the box. (I think it's either DX11.0 or DX10.1 - need to check the hardware dev docs)
 
[citation][nom]waethorn[/nom]Not true. Windows 8's minimum requirement for video acceleration are the same as the 6-year old Windows Vista. That is, any chip supporting at least DirectX9 support will get automatic acceleration by the OS. In fact, ARM chipsets only need DX9 support to meet certification requirements. x86 platforms are expected to meet higher DX specs to be certified - I forget which version, but it isn't DX11.1, which is the maximum supported by the OS out of the box. (I think it's either DX11.0 or DX10.1 - need to check the hardware dev docs)[/citation]

ARM chipsets are dirt slow with Aero. I didn't say that DX11 is necessary for acceleration, only that it is better.
 
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]ARM chipsets are dirt slow with Aero. I didn't say that DX11 is necessary for acceleration, only that it is better.[/citation]

And how would you know that? Nobody has seen ARM tablets running any version of Windows outside of OEM hardware partners and the press under very controlled scenarios. Nobody has been able to have any hands on experience with any of the ARM tablets at any conferences either.

Also, DX11 doesn't provide any special acceleration for Aero beyond what DX10 does. Aero has very low system requirements. DX10 only provides performance improvements for Aero on compatible hardware due to optimizations in the shader routines. DX9 with Pixel Shader 2.0 is all you need to run Aero though.
 
[citation][nom]waethorn[/nom]And how would you know that? Nobody has seen ARM tablets running any version of Windows outside of OEM hardware partners and the press under very controlled scenarios. Nobody has been able to have any hands on experience with any of the ARM tablets at any conferences either.Also, DX11 doesn't provide any special acceleration for Aero beyond what DX10 does. Aero has very low system requirements. DX10 only provides performance improvements for Aero on compatible hardware due to optimizations in the shader routines. DX9 with Pixel Shader 2.0 is all you need to run Aero though.[/citation]

Actually, a lot of people have seen ARM tablets and such trying to run Aero. There are even reviews about unfinished very low end Windows ARM and Medfield devices that try to run Aero. It didn't go well because of the IGPs and their drivers not being good enough. We've even had minor arguments about these reviews in the comments of some of these Tom's articles.

Regardless, Aero really has little to do with any of this considering that Windows 8 is supposed to not have it. I specifically said that Windows 8 would like newer GPUs and such because they have more up to date DX versions and such, especially DX11. DX9, as you said, is inferior in this sense. The newest cards that support only up to DX9 would be something like the Radeon 2000 cards or maybe the 3000s (and their Nvidia counterparts), I'd have to check which. Regardless, it's old. Why not let Windows 8 optimize more for newer graphics cards and IGPs? It's not like older ones don't work at all if you really want to use them (I know because I've tested Windows 8 on DX10.1 and DX9.0C only graphics) and optimizing for newer cards means that modern systems will run better. Radeon 5000 is already like two to three years old or something like that and if it's the earliest that is fully supported, then fine. Most people whom don't even use semi-modern hardware probably don't have OS upgrades as a high priority.
 
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]Actually, a lot of people have seen ARM tablets and such trying to run Aero. There are even reviews about unfinished very low end Windows ARM and Medfield devices that try to run Aero. It didn't go well because of the IGPs and their drivers not being good enough. We've even had minor arguments about these reviews in the comments of some of these Tom's articles.
[/citation]

Name your sources. Name one website that actually has a first-hand account of this. Every person that has had first-hand knowledge of ANYTHING regarding ARM internals for Windows RT is under strict NDA, so I call FUD.

[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]Aero really has little to do with any of this considering that Windows 8 is supposed to not have it. [/citation]

Nobody has seen the RTM yet, but I've installed the Release Preview on an Atom N-series CPU with the old 945 chipset with the GMA 950 and it still has what I would call "Aero", since the transparency options are still there. The reason Microsoft didn't want it enabled by default is for battery life, not because of any limitations in existing ARM GPU's. If you want an example, take a look at any Tegra 3 Android tablet and you'll see that none use shaders (blurred translucency) in their OS UI.

[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]I specifically said that Windows 8 would like newer GPUs and such because they have more up to date DX versions and such, especially DX11. DX9, as you said, is inferior in this sense. The newest cards that support only up to DX9 would be something like the Radeon 2000 cards or maybe the 3000s (and their Nvidia counterparts), I'd have to check which. Regardless, it's old. Why not let Windows 8 optimize more for newer graphics cards and IGPs? It's not like older ones don't work at all if you really want to use them (I know because I've tested Windows 8 on DX10.1 and DX9.0C only graphics) and optimizing for newer cards means that modern systems will run better. Radeon 5000 is already like two to three years old or something like that and if it's the earliest that is fully supported, then fine. Most people whom don't even use semi-modern hardware probably don't have OS upgrades as a high priority.[/citation]

The most that Aero uses is DX10's unified shader model, which is more efficient than DX9. The Radeon 2000 is fully DX10.0 compliant, and is still supported by AMD, and as such, Microsoft has it on the "Compatible" list for Windows 8. The X1000, X000 and prior GPU's aren't listed as compatible because they not only don't meet DX10 specs, but they also have no vendor support. They have to have both for Microsoft to support it for logo testing.

 
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